Lord of the Sabbath (Page 3)

Cenababy
Cenababy: Chayii, well, if you look at it as he is the Messiah and the only one to change things or be able to give us salvation, then I guess you could understand that he is the greater authority .....so that's where I come from in that respect! I am going to research some things to blog on later today on "the greater authority", and I will write about it!
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chay chayi
chay chayi: Giving salvation and being a high authority, is not by uplifting and breaking laws and words of God, its by repenting and listening and following God's laws and words

God's laws and words are God's spirit
(Edited by chay chayi)
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Laura  _
Laura _: Chayii referred to Mark 7, Jesus was referring to the unbiblical ritual of hand washing Al Netilat yadayim. The Pharisees and Scribes taught if you did not run your hands under water one at a time, and over the pots and cups you were ceremonially defiled and when you touched the food it was defiled also. These same men were focusing on ritual cleanliness and ignoring more important matters of the Torah or God's commandments. By spending so much time on these unBiblical rituals they were neglecting their mother and fathers. The "food" we can eat is listed by God in Leviticus 11 the people of Jesus time understood what was ok to eat. The people knew not to eat rats, bats and pigs. So again I will say Jesus did not come to change the law.
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Cenababy
Cenababy: Chayii I hear your words, but you are forgetting most Christians believe that Jesus did have the authority to change or make things obsolete that were no longer necessary after he came to us. You forget that he is Our Lord/Savior and that most believe him to be "one with God, GOD"...so it is a rather moot point when you say he broke laws and went against God, being that he is him! and why did he do things and not get punished? not sin? would seem rather silly if he did all of this and it was against God or a sin and yet God did not punish him? This must mean something!
(Edited by Cenababy)
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Cenababy
Cenababy: Laura, lol...well I certainly wouldn't eat rats or bats considering they cause diseases such as rabbies....but I still stand by what the NT says about "food goes to your stomach and out of you, so that does not defile you or make you spiritually unclean. Jesus said again....it is not which goes in you that makes you unclean but what comes from your mouth which defiles you. See people forget that rituals, sacrifices and old laws were PRE-JESUS and for a purpose and reason, also they forget that for the Jews verses Gentiles/Christians things were not the same, and for a reason. We are followers of Christ, the Jews were not!....let's go look at some passages about this, I will find them and blog them, then we can discuss further
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bainyu
bainyu: God required the Israelites to be Seperate from the rest of the nations. To symbolize their purity. This was before Christ. Where all they had was law. Where there was no one who died for their sins. Following the law was obedience to God who set rules into place because of the time period the place and the circumstance. God made rules and certain statutes that symbolized their seperation. For exampled they were suppose to curcumsize which was not something that other Nations were suppose to do. This was soley for the Israelites. That command parallels to the New testament where it says to curcumsize our heart. The other example would be the sacrifice animals for sin which parallels to christ being the ultimate sacrificial lamb.

There were commands for all nations. Moral commands that God says is for "the nations" but there wer specific commands for Israelites.
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chay chayi
chay chayi: Laura
But Jesus also said, there in that verse (Mark 7:18/19) that he declares all meat "clean", and this is against God that said, that they are unclean, and it says they themselves those animals are unclean, and Jesus did not only say that "you may eat them" because it goes in and out, he also said that "they are clean", totally against God

And Cena
First of all, you have the concept of a Messiah all wrong, a Messiah is not God, he has God's holy spirit dwelling in Him, God's holy ghost dwelling in him, this is the concept of the personality of a prophet, the different between all prophets and the Messiah is, that there are many spirits from God that are evolved from level to level, till the level of the certain prophet according how just and right he is, but the Messiah has risen to the level to receive in him God's spirit itself, but he is not God, all those Christian that claim that Jesus is God, are mistaking in the understanding of his words, and in the basics of a Messiah

And even to your mistaken understanding, you are proven wrong, because if the situation was, if not eating them or to eat them, you have your incorrect reasoning, but it says that he declared "all meat clean" those animals them selves, not that you may eat them because it goes out, he "also" added and said that "they" are clean

And for Jesus's reasoning itself is false, because the minerals of the food returns part of the entire body, go study science how food digests to the entire body

And about the literal commands of the Torah
Sure that the point of everything is the heart and mind and spirit, but the acts and the physics are evolved and connected and one with the spirit, like the body is connected to the soul and spirit, and like if you eat poison, even if its only literal, but your soul and spirit will leave the body, the literal body and all acts are connected to the soul and spirit, and the soul and spirit are connected to God, this is the creation of God, not only souls and spirits, but also physical literal body that is connected and one with the soul and spirit, and the soul and spirit has an effect on the body, and the body has an effect on the soul and spirit, and like if you eat properly and healthy, than your soul and spirit dwells healthy in your body

Now
All commands that are literal are routed to the soul and spirit, the physical world and all acts are connected to the soul and spirit, you cannot sit and do nothing, and rot and love or think of God, when there is a command that you should wash your hands, of course it means spiritual, but to maintain the spiritual cleaning totally it goes with the literal acts, and this is the basics of all commands that you "do" with your body, not doing nothing,and only using mind and heart is not reality, the emotions and feelings are accomplished with the literal acts, and this is the base of all commands that are based that all your acts literal should be right clean and just rooted in the soul and spirit
(Edited by chay chayi)
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Laura  _
Laura _: Christ says in Mark 7:9 "All too well you reject the commandments of God, that you may keep your tradition.

This can be used for man keeping their tradition of Sunday worship and ignoring God's Holy day The seventh day Sabbath.
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bainyu
bainyu: Youre really reaching with this.
We are told that our body is the temple of God and for that reason we should respect it. Meaning not do things that HARM our body. We do this because of the spirit of the Lord that makes us aware and sensitive. Now rituals are not connected to the heart. Notice I said RITUALS Works become ritualistic when the Holy Spirit and Christ are not connected to what you are doing. People can follow Biblical rules but not follow God, that is religion not a relationship.

Luke 10:25-28
25 An expert in Torah stood up to try and trap him by asking, “Rabbi, what should I do to obtain eternal life?” 26 But Yeshua said to him, “What is written in the Torah? How do you read it?” 27 He answered, “You are to love Adonai your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength and with all your understanding; and your neighbor as yourself.”[b] 28 “That’s the right answer,” Yeshua said. “Do this, and you will have life.”

When I read strength(might) I see that as will or our very being.

Heart
Soul
Mind
Strength

Why doesnt it say body?


Everything Jesus did was in spirit.
Your emphasizing wrongly.
Christ made it so that the way we must look at all things is spiritually. True worshippers worship in SPIRIT and truth. The law is not thrown out. We apply the law to our spirit rather than to the physical. Doing ritualistic things does not change our heart. But when your heart is correct and pure then what you do becomes pure. God counts that as Holy. A person whos heart is pure is blameless, so the outside will not effect the inner being of the man.

When our heart and mind becomes aligned with God then we will start to become more like Jesus. That makes us produce fruit which allows us to be able to do the works. Do you know how we become Holy? We meditate on the word. We feed on the word of God then we begin to understand who God is. We then gain wisdom and knowledge and of course as I said.. understanding. The more you spend time with someone the more become like them, right? God does the changing. We cannot do it on our own. We cannot work hard enough, do enough works. We can do so many physical things thinking we are honoring God but if our heart is not right it means nothing. Focus on the HEART and MIND.

21 “You have heard that our fathers were told, ‘Do not murder,’[b] and that anyone who commits murder will be subject to judgment. 22 But I tell you that anyone who nurses anger against his brother will be subject to judgment


27 “You have heard that our fathers were told, ‘Do not commit adultery.’[c] 28 But I tell you that a man who even looks at a woman with the purpose of lusting after her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

38 “You have heard that our fathers were told, ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’[h] 39 But I tell you not to stand up against someone who does you wrong. On the contrary, if someone hits you on the right cheek, let him hit you on the left cheek too!

43 “You have heard that our fathers were told, ‘Love your neighbor[i] — and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies! Pray for those who persecute you!

Do you see how Jesus talks about the hearts condition. He is taking about our spirit. Did Jesus not Change it?





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Laura  _
Laura _: Mathew 5:17 Jesus says " Do not think I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.
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bainyu
bainyu:
Everything Jesus did was in spirit.
Your emphasizing wrongly.
Christ made it so that the way we must look at all things is spiritually. True worshippers worship in SPIRIT and truth. The law is not thrown out. We apply the law to our spirit rather than to the physical. Doing ritualistic things does not change our heart. But when your heart is correct and pure then what you do becomes pure. God counts that as Holy. A person whos heart is pure is blameless, so the outside will not effect the inner being of the man.

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Cenababy
Cenababy: Laura, yes that's whay I said, TO FULFILL, COMPLETE...so if completed, if he died doesn't that zero out sacrifices? does it not say Jesus said, that all foods are clean? so why would we hold to the old laws before Jesus...the OT was to prepare for Jesus, and yes, things changed when he came I think this is the point that people miss, however; if you have the need to follow the old laws, go for it, that is your right. Most Christians do not follow the old laws.
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Cenababy
Cenababy: CHAYII, I will blog to you later, at work now and no time......
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Emmet2Tim2_7
Emmet2Tim2_7: Ro 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Do you establish the law,Cena?
Ro 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;Ro 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law [are] just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Because I keep the law, if I sin I will be judged BUT if u don't keep the law and sin...u perish.Not my words.
Cena by these scriptures ,you are on a fast track to death.
But you can still repent.
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Cenababy
Cenababy: Emmet, I don't say I ignore laws, as you know, I don't know them all, all I was posting (sharing) a blog about Sabbath and where Jesus says what we can do now. That's all. I am not trying to tell anyone what to do or to ignore anything at all. I am not Jesus. If Jesus tells me that food is not what defiles me and isn't what makes me unholy, then so be it! You know Christians see things differently than Jews
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Cenababy
Cenababy: Emmet, might I suggest you read the blog "Jesus Changes things"....I think that explains it pretty well...
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chay chayi
chay chayi: No, it doesn't go that way, you cannot sit and do nothing, and have a pure spirit, or spirit at all, the spirit is according what and how you do things, by sitting and doing nothing, you have nothing, spirits grows on according what you do, like the more your body grows and ages, the more your spirit grows

The spirit is connected to the body, there's no such thing to say love God with your body, because love is spirit not physics, love is a spiritual emotion

The commands and rules of the Torah what you do, is through the acts of the body, the body is also part of God's kingdom, that's why it was created,it should do physically God's commands, that's why the physical body and world was created, if only spirit, then it was only to be angels, and no physical world, only Heaven, they are pure spirit, but God created the physical existence and the body they are part of God's kingdom, and the commands and rules are for the acts together with the spirit

And the way the commands are given is that everything what you do is together with the spirit, the spirit doesn't go with out the body, the body doesn't go with out the spirit

God did not give the commands it should be dead with out spirit, that's sick and crazy and mentally ill, the commands were given for the body that contains a soul and spirit and they are one thing called - man - (or woman)
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chay chayi
chay chayi: There is no such thing as one person fulfilled the law now you go crazy and don't do anything and don't worship God, God gave the commands for all Israelites, not only for Moses he should for fill them and others should be saved through Moses

And its no such a thing, God did not give the commands to be saved, God gave the commands you should worship God by them, and by them you will be one with God, you cannot sit and do nothing, or do anything else not worshiping God and be one with God, you are connected to what you do, only if you worship God, then you are connected to God, being saved means that if you did wrong, you broke God's commands, you didn't believe in God, then repent and get saved, you should go lost by the evil ways, but the thing of the commands itself is not about being saved, its about you should rise in God's existence, in his kingdom, in his spirits and shine and glory and life and wisdom
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chay chayi
chay chayi: And Jesus said even he was alive to not do many things when he was alive, so its cotradictional that many things you should not do and many yes

and this is also proof against what Bainyu said, because many laws are still left even after your Jesus belief, even commands that are to be done or not done, not only applying the spirit itself
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Cenababy
Cenababy: Romans 2:12 says, “All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law”. This is not referring to Gentiles – it is referring to disobedient Jews. Those who have the Laws of Moses (the Jews) and sin apart from the Laws of Moses (disobedient Jews/refuse to obey God’s Laws) will perish. But those who have the Laws of Moses (the Jews) and obey the Laws of Moses (obedient Jews) will be judged by the Laws of Moses. We know this verse is referring to the Jews and not the Gentiles because of the next verse; “For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous”. The Jews had the Laws (heard the Law), but many refused to obey the Law. It is the obedient Jews who will be declared righteous. Paul is speaking to the Jews. Many Jews thought they were better than the Gentiles because they were God’s people. But Paul is making a clear statement; it does not matter if you are a Jew – if you did not obey the Law, you will perish. Paul goes on by comparing sinful Jews to the Gentiles (people who never had the Law); “Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness”. Paul is stating that there are Gentiles who do a better job at “obeying God’s Laws” even though they have never heard of them – their heart and conscience enables them to determine what is right and wrong. So even though they have never heard of God or His Laws, their morality is better than the Jews who had God’s Laws. Paul is trying to make the Jews understand that the idea of being God’s chosen people no longer matters – just because they were chosen, doesn’t mean they are better than the Gentiles. All have sinned.

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chay chayi
chay chayi: No, you are mistaking and twisting the words and the meanings
Chosen to God has a price, they are commanded more commands and rules because their spirit is high standard, he only says that chosen doesn't mean that if you disobey the rules you'll get away wit it, no, they get punished for disobeying
(Edited by chay chayi)
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Cenababy
Cenababy: the point is the point Chayii, however you want to cut it. The Jews go by Moses Laws, period!
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Cenababy
Cenababy: Jews are no more favored than anyone, you can think you are better than others, butr in God's eyes if you sin, you are no better. He made all of us, he loves all of us! period!
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bainyu
bainyu: Um no.
The body is TEMPORARY. The spirit\soul will exist without the body. I have not said the body is not important. The body is the temple. It guards what is in the temple. It is the cover of the treasure. Now without the body the spirit will exist. But without the spirit\soul the body CANNOT. You are placing importance where it should NOT be. The body does affect the soul\spirit in that we have SIN NATURE. The sin nature comes along with the physical body.

But you do not overcome SIN with the BODY because you CANNOT. Sin cannot overcome sin.

The purpose of the Law, GODS LAW, the ten commandments is to set the standard of Holy which we CANNOT do. It is to show us perfection and that we are sinners. Now when Jesus came He DID fufill the prophecies AND He was the perfect man to literally be able to do what noone has done which is do all the things the law says and He was greater than the law.

Now Christians EMPHASIZE CHRIST. Not the law although we are told to write the law in our hearts. The book of law that is the whole Bible which is the word of God AND the word of God was JESUS. JESUS WAS THE WORD IN THE FLESH. Its the knowledge and understanding of what Christ has done that will allow you to see the meaning of the Law and grace.

Sooo
The bible talks about being transformed by the renewing of our minds. It also says that we are made a NEW CREATION in Jesus Christ. The old things have gone. Te change starts INWARD then comes outside. What you dont get is that when you are change in the spirit it starts with our mind then feelings then we really become a different person. IT IS ONLY THROUGH GODS WORD which we can be holy. That is when our outside starts to follow.

THE SPIRIT of GOD does that. The word of God is spirit filled. You are emphasizing the body which is WRONG. The body allows you to help others and be a blessing through works in faith.
But without the Holy spirits guiding and understanding its in vain, works are just works and God is not pleased with us doing things just to do them.

Wrong emphasis.
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Laura  _
Laura _: 1 John 5 :2-3 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we keep His commandments. For this is the love of God if keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.
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