Baha'u'llah was NOT a Prophet of Allah (God). The Bahi Faith is a deviant sect. (Page 2)

Islam111
Islam111: sallallahu alayhi wasallam..
Allahumma aameen!
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: I guess religious people just can't help squabbling over who is right, hey Zanjan? Two grown ups arguing over what a word means doesn't inspire confidence in your respective faiths. My idea of God, if such a being were to exist, would be something that would leave no doubt in anyones' mind as to its requirements and intentions. Looking around the world, does that seem to be the case? Clearly not, as you and TrueWord are proving right here. The only conclusion I can draw is that nobody knows anything about God, because nothing has been divinely revealed. The only honest position to take on God is silence but I guess that would be too much to expect. So, squabble away.
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GeraldtheGnome
GeraldtheGnome: Whether someone goes by the name God or Allah for what I consider God without any actual name, doesn't matter, it's difficult to know anything about God/Allah without any proof that he even ever did or does exist in any form and to argue in what way someone who was believed, yet not proven to be since there's no proof that the person was a Prophet or not and/or that God does or doesn't exist. So yes in a way this is a fight about the unknown, about one or more male religious figures that may or may not have existed in any way, shape or form, even if one or both did does not mean that one was the prophet of the other or that the other existed in the way that is meant to be believed. Oddly enough I am an Agnostic Theist though, but yes there's no True Word or the One True Religion.

At the same time though I don't consider just because one disagrees with the other one's religion that that one should consider the other one's religion a 'Deviant Sect.' Is it truly just a sect or another Religion ? After all, despite a lot of complaints that it isn't, Christianity started off as a Jewish Sect and became a different type of Religion. This is a bit like Jewish and Christian groups fighting about their different belief systems after all. Nothing different that way here.
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TrueWord
TrueWord: Philosophy..Philosophy..Philosophy

That's what many on wireclub utilize and implement in these forums - their own philosophy.

Let us learn to be more rational and dig deeper into the Scriptures.

The words of God are far greater than our mere opinions/philosophies : )
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GeraldtheGnome
GeraldtheGnome: The words of who ? Of mere mortal men that claim that God/Allah existed through their made up stories. They are not the words of God/Allah. The scriptures have traces of the truth mixed in with made up stuff.
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GeraldtheGnome
GeraldtheGnome: We who question all of this, the Angostic Theists and the Atheists, are not into philosophy, but into the truth, minus some Atheists of course.
(Edited by GeraldtheGnome)
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TrueWord
TrueWord: This is truly an Agnostic/Atheist view...Words of mortal men?

Would mortal men who lived over 1,400 years ago know the details of the embryological process, the big bang theory, the fact that the planets orbit around the sun, the fact that the earth is round, the details of the formation of the clouds, the fact that pain receptors are on the human skin, the fact that there are 360 joints in the human body, the details of the fingerprints, oxidation if the blood, the existence of black holes, and many many more.

The Qur'an mentions ALL this in detail. Would you not then agree that the Qur'an is an amazing book? Would you not then agree that truly this book could not have been developed by man? What man over 1,400 years ago would know such details that were only recently discovered by modern scientists the last few decades or at most the last 100 years! Also, all of the scientific details mentioned in the Qur'an have been proven today to be true. NOT ONE of the scientific facts in the Qur'an were proven false. Hence why today Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. Hence why today the Qur'an is the most memorized book in the world - God has preserved the Final Testament (The Qur'an) and I swear (By Allah) it is the true word of Allah (God).

Gerald, it is obvious that you have not indulged deep into the field of theology. I invite you to the religion of Islam (submission to God) - the religion which was practiced and preached by all the Prophets including Adam, Noah, Abraham, Jacob, Isaah, Joesph, David, Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad (peace be upon them all). All the Prophets of Allah (God) came with the same message - worship the ONE and ONLY God (Allah) and do not associate any partners to God (Allah).
(Edited by TrueWord)
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GeraldtheGnome
GeraldtheGnome: Allah is a name and name only, as for the various list of prophets which differs depending on what religion someone bases their beliefs on it doesn't matter because there is no proof that God/Allah does or doesn't exist. There isn't a religious text in the world where most of ANY of them have been proven, the Qur'an is no exception to that, so swear in any manner you want, your following the beliefs of a mainly made up book, mainly not based on anything that ever has happened, no matter what you tell me, including your,'we must be brainwashed by one religious extremist who told us that these are the to be unquestioned words of Allah'. It doesn't make sense and it never will. Use it as a guide, not as a way to control your life. Independent thinking people !
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GeraldtheGnome
GeraldtheGnome: Peace is a myth, calm is reality.
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TrueWord
TrueWord: Gerald, it appears that you have completely dismissed the legit evidences that were provided to you.

Firstly, Allah is the Arabic word for "God". It is also used in the Hebrew and Aramaic language throughout the Old Testament and New Testament. Allah is NOT just a name, it literally means "Lord" - the one and only God.


Secondly, Again, regarding the Qur'an I will try to make it more apparent to you.

Can you imagine that a man of 1,400 years ago knew about the details of the embryological process for example??

A well-known Professor known as Keith L. Moore read the Qur'an and read the embryological process as it is described in detail in the Qur'an. After contemplating these verses mentioned in the Qur'an, he stated that THIS COULD NOT have been the words of man because the embryological process was only discovered in detail during the last 100 years. So how is it that a man of 1,400 years ago who was illiterate (could not read or write) would know such details??? Do you have an answer to this Gerald? No one else does....Thus, know that indeed, the Qur'an in the book of Allah (God).

Furthermore, you stated "there is no proof that God/Allah does or doesn't exist". Don't you realize that the tool you were just using to develop your thoughts (your complex brain) is a proof of God in itself!? Don't you contemplate on the complexity of the universe, nature, millions of species of animals, billions of humans, and everything the surrounds us that we know of and don't know of? Truly there is a Creator behind the complexity that surrounds us. Theoretically, a person has more of a chance believing that the iPhone wasn't developed by an Engineer, than believing that the universe and everything in it was not created by the Creator (God). Meaning, if you are not going to believe in God, then you might as well not believe that someone designed and developed the iPhone. The point is, there is a designer/engineer/creator behind every complex system. Your physical body is a complex system, the universe is a complex system, etc. which has all been designed by THE ENGINEER (Allah, the Lord of the worlds).

Lastly, If you studied the laws of Quantum Physics and thermodynamics, you would acknowledge that the existence of God is proven. For instance, the simple fact that "something cannot be created from nothing”.

God exists outside of space and time, God has always existed. God is not a man nor a woman. God is Almighty, All-seeing, All-hearing, All-knowing and there is nothing comparable to God.
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GeraldtheGnome
GeraldtheGnome: Legit ? Traces of the truth in a mainly made up story. That's all you have. On that basis you can't prove that God/Allah does exist. So you could type up a novel to me about all your religious beliefs it still won't prove that most of what you tell me is true. I go on faith, not on what those within the religious world tell me.
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TrueWord
TrueWord: I guess you had a difficult time answering my questions that I posted above, which is why you replied back with your defense mechanisms.

I advise that you humble yourself and read the postings above thoroughly.

Thanks.
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GeraldtheGnome
GeraldtheGnome: No, you believe in false beliefs, there is no use answering someone's questions, when evolution created Humans, nothing else and the Embryological stuff was just nonsense. I'm not telling you that there is 100 % proof that there is or isn't a God, you are the one telling me there is 100 % proof when there is no proof of that. I am humble, humble enough to know that some things are worth answering even though I don't have a difficult time answering them, I just find it easier not replying to such utter nonsense, in other words to illogical things. I saw all of the above stuff thoroughly and most of it was quite thoroughly a bit of nonsense. None of this is a defence mechanism, it's just the cold, hard truth.
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: May I just point out TrueWord that the old Greeks were pretty clued-up on the heavens. For example, the ancient Greek Astronomer, Eratosthenes of Cyrene, estimated the circumference of the world in about 240 B.C. Also, Aristarchus of Samos, who died around c. 230 B.C., proposed that the earth rotated on its own axis and revolved around the sun. The logical conclusion to be drawn, from these and other examples, is that there was probably more knowledge of the world available to Muhammad than we know about. You have yet to prove that God revealed anything to him.
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Zanjan
Zanjan: Trueword: “as well as making others aware of the dangers of these innovated sects, such as the Baha'i Faith, that are as harmful as a growing plague”

Show where this religion has been dangerously harmful – not opinion, but actual facts about their actions please.

“surly Allah will deal with him for his claim that was a cause for the deception and deviation of thousands including yourself, Zanjan.”

Uh Huh……….see how God has dealt with us -> we don’t take up arms against anyone, nor attempt to malign anyone or spew nasty invectives. We don’t hate or see the dark side of anything. We’re not divided and don’t fight amongst ourselves.

You mention scientific things in the Quran, and that it’s proof this Book wasn’t written by man. That wasn’t proof to the people or Muslims of the Day because that only happened recently. There must have been some other proof for them – the proof we should be using.


Gerald, whatever you believe or don't believe, at least you do it with sincerity - that's a valuable spiritual quality.
(Edited by Zanjan)
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Zanjan
Zanjan: Ghost: “I guess religious people just can't help squabbling over who is right, hey Zanjan?”

Some do because they don’t believe certain Holy Books are from God. There are many religious people who don’t squabble or fight with anyone, regardless of beliefs – not only do they have close friends who belong to other religions, they’ve married them, including me - my first husband (RIP) was an atheist, I'm now married to a Christian. Such is the sign of unity. God loves unity.

“Two grown ups arguing over what a word means”

When someone asks you a question, do you walk away? If another person answers that question, is that an argument or a fight? If you feel it’s wrong for someone to deliberately misrepresent a person, would you just turn your head aside and walk away, saying nothing?

To me, a person who does that is a coward and lacks a conscience. However, once one has responded, their duty is fulfilled and there’s nothing more one can do – that’s the time to hold silence and let God handle the rest.

As you know, Baha’is have no disagreement with any of the religions of God, particularly their Holy Books. This is the day for dialogue and enlightenment – that doesn’t happen if one’s aim is censorship.


Gerald, I've read your topics on other religions in ancient times, including the pagan religions; not once did I see you mock them or denigrate those followers. Seems to me you have a great interest in history and with a strong desire to delve into where we came from. I also noticed you tend to mention similarities between those religions.




(Edited by Zanjan)
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GeraldtheGnome
GeraldtheGnome: Thank you. I still however see it as a man, I stress the word man, by the man, not a woman, if anyone understands where I'm going with this, made the Quran, etc etc, rarely if ever is there a Religion that is known anyway, if at all, that was originated by a female, this is not a sexist belief of mine, purely an observation. What God/Allah did or didn't do doesn't matter considering that he may or may not of, if God/Allah existed or exist or even if he did then he may have just existed in a different way, shape or form anyway, he may have even just been a mere mortal, if he existed. Since there is no proof that he did or didn't exist I will not tell you who God's prophet/s was/were or even if he had any since there is no proof or way of denying that he had any or if he even existed in any way or that he still does. I do however see this forum as an unfair swipe at the religious beliefs of some people merely because those people have a different way of looking at the same thing that the creator of this forum believes in.
(Edited by GeraldtheGnome)
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Zanjan
Zanjan: "rarely, if ever is there a Religion that is known anyway, if at all, that was originated by a female,"

Seems odd to us, doesn't it? I think the reason for that is how women were treated in the old world. They had no place except in the kitchen - what did they know? In a patriarchal society, she would have been laughed out of the room, not able to garner men's respect.

I love watching this show on TV called Edwardian Farm. The actors authentically practice the roles down to every detail of daily life. It's stunning to see how hard life was and how much work women had - if she didn't have muscle, she was basically useless. She wouldn't have had any time to do anything but drudgery. But hey, I discovered the real science behind beating laundry in a pond - all these years, I'd been doing it wrong while camping!

In this newly cushy world, we collectively forget so much, taking our new freedoms for granted and that's one thing we can all agree on. Just like that TV show, I believe God wants there to be a few lampholders of the past, guarding ancient spiritual knowledge so that we remember God, truth and wisdom has never left us.



(Edited by Zanjan)
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GeraldtheGnome
GeraldtheGnome: I take in all of that, but I still have seen no evidence for or against God existing or not existing, therefore I won't believe that God wants anything, even if we remember someone that there is no proof of the existence of God/Allah, but this also doesn't mean that he didn't exist or that he doesn't exist. That's why I don't blame the thoughts that Agnostic Theists, Gnostic Theists and Atheists (even of the Agnostic kind) have, as long as they aren't extreme or absolute with their points of view.
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shadowline
shadowline: "The scholars have agreed that anyone who believes in a Prophet after Muhammed (peace be upon him), has fell into a state of 'disbelief'." What "scholars", for heaven's sake, have agreed on this? I doubt any Baha'i scholar has agreed on this, or any secular one. Whether this or that prophet is to be believed or not is not a matter for scholars.

There is just as good reason for putting your faith in Baha'ullah as there is for putting it in Mohammed - better, most would say, here in the modern world, seeing that Baha'ullah did not use violence to establish or spread his revelation, nor have his followers. Baha'ullah's revelation is wiser and kinder than Mohammed's. A wise person doesn't need any better recommendation that that.


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Zanjan
Zanjan: TV stations in Iran have been airing videos on the news that warn people against approaching the Baha'i Faith. Shows a picture of smiling women who aren't wearing hijabs. It denounced Baha'is, saying they preach the unity of mankind without even being able to read Arabic (much of our scripture is written in Arabic, some in Farsi) .

They say that Bahai's investigate truth on their own, without even knowing what their own scripture is saying in Arabic. Through their teaching of the unity of mankind, they attract converts so they can be foreign spies.

I just want to say "thank you" to these mullas. We like the free exposure.
(Edited by Zanjan)
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chay chayi
chay chayi: And i claim, that any person not Jewish is not a prophet, only imposters including Muhammad
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chay chayi
chay chayi: And what is mankind unity ?? computers ??? Iphones ??? email ?? night clubs ??? or what ??? hollow words, nothing in it

The only word is God and his way, the word "unity of mankind" means nothing but hollow words
(Edited by chay chayi)
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Zanjan
Zanjan: Chay, everyone knows about the Jewish Religion - it has nothing new to offer humanity so, it's not surprising to see you have such an ancient view of everything.

Yes, the ancients knew nothing of unity, not even about the Unity of God - as a way-backer, neither do you. Why should I explain it to you when you've proven you don't accept anything new? It would just bounce right off your head.

The only glimmer of unity you might get, if you think really hard, is the Holocaust - the last great spiritual contribution Jews, as a civilization, made to mankind. In return for that, God made *their* heirs (not you) temporal guardians of Israel. These are the ones who already understand something about it.

If you want to see the spiritual guardians today, set your eyes upon the majesty of Mount Carmel - the side facing the sea. Then read about it in your Torah and Talmud.

(Edited by Zanjan)
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chay chayi
chay chayi: Again, talking out of the air
Judaism and God's words don't change, they are basics and fundamental, the only thing changing is the soul and spirits of people, Judaism is not humanity, its God's guidance of and to the way of life, i also live in today's generation, and know and have anything what you have, but God's words and spirits holds the soul and spirit everything should surround the truth, God is the middle point and the center of everything, new does not mean that God's words and rules change, they are God's spirits, new means that God's spirits are being accomplished and improved, all materials and science and nature you whine around as this is something new, and this is God and unity, is totally false, material, nature is nothing, its only material, new means when God's spirit and wisdom renews in the soul and spirit, they are endless, and you only find it in God's ways, what is mars ?? a piece of physics, what is the entire space and all science ?? physics, nothing, what are all the medication and all scientific methods of health ?? only physics to remain alive, but what is life ??? not Mars, not computers, not Iphones, not space, not the Sun, and not the Moon, life is God's spirit, and this is Judaism, offering new science and materials, fine, they are only instruments to function, but what Judaism has to offer, is God's spirit
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