Who Believes in the Devil? (Page 96) ghostgeek: Having a bicycle puts you above the law, or so it seems. It's a good job I'm not Satan, otherwise anybody who put a foot on a pedal would be straight down to hell. ghostgeek: So, considering the shocking state the planet's in, I think we can say with some confidence that Satan doesn't exist. And if there's no Satan, it's more than likely that God is a myth as well.  Zanjan: Looks like you don't know how to ride a bicycle. What's wrong with nerf balls, cotton balls, popcorn balls, meatballs, snowballs? No offense but you don't sound like any fun at all! (You're British -tell me why those last two are one word but not the others) I don't get your logic - you're implying the planet is falling apart because neither satan or God exist. You're also implying that *you* have the power to straighten it all out. You're beginning to sound like Trump, who publically complained somebody else got his Nobel Peace Prize. You know, a moth put holes in my Albert Sung wool crepe power blazer- you don't hear me complaining. (Edited by Zanjan) ghostgeek: Just because I didn't hear you complain doesn't mean you didn't. Sodding bicycles should stay where they belong, on the roads, where they can be run down. They shouldn't be racing around on the pavement making me jump out of the way. As for balls, the blasted things are nothing but a goddam nuisance. And no, I'm no damn fun at all. ghostgeek: I know I haven't "the power to straighten it all out" and it doesn't look as if your God has either. Zanjan: I didn't complain; I was merely annoyed and saddened because it was my own fault for not putting it in a garment bag. It can be fixed with some expensive invisible mending, which can only be done by one company in the city. I haven't bothered - I'll leave it in my Will to someone who's small enough to fit into it. Designer pieces are practically timeless. After 50 years, they go to museums. Our God can fix any problem. You want an overnight fix - that can only happen one individual soul at a time. For the masses, God builds a new civilization which, in turn, has an efficacious effect on everyone, even atheists. In historical time, 200 years is still pretty quick. (Edited by Zanjan) Zanjan: You're speaking of an attempt at war. There's always collateral damage and most casualties are unarmed civilians. War is sloppy from the get go. Serious errors were made by both countries. However, some good will come of it. Iranian people have more of a will to do something about how their country is run. The Americans did the same thing - congress immediately picked up the reigns of their government. The winds of change are blowing. (Edited by Zanjan) ghostgeek: The Ayatollahs are putting serious thought into making sure the winds of change don't blow in Iran. As for America, confusion reigns there.  m_leonora1111: If someone don't believe in Satan they cannot believe in God. The war is between God and Satan  firstdown857: Leonora. Expecting athiest to undertand? what world expect from them? :- The Doomed Race: A Scientific Axiom of the Late Nineteenth Century1 Russell McGregor Anthropologists and other scientific investigators of the Australian Aborigines in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries confidently predicted the imminent extinction of the race. Indeed, "confidently predicted" is understating the case. Scientists at the time knew that the Aborigines would soon be extinct. It was taken for granted as a self-evident truth. James Barnard, VicePresident of the Royal Society of Tasmania, opened his paper at the 1890 meeting of the Australasian Association for the Advancement of Science with the assertion: It has become an axiom that, following the law of evolution and survival of the fittest, the inferior races of mankind must give place to the highest type of man, and that this law is adequate to account for the gradual decline in numbers of the aboriginal inhabitants of a country be-fore the march of civilisation? This paper seeks to explain why the inevitable extinction of the Aborigines was raised to the status of an axiom. It will discuss both the supportive empirical evidence and the presuppositions which underlay contemporary scientific understandings of the Aborigines. The latter of these was by far the most important. By the late nineteenth century the prediction of Aboriginal extinction was by no means novel. It had been put forward by Barron Field and others early in the century and repeated by numerous observers over subsequent de~ades.~ What was new was the explanatory framework the Natural Law of Survival of the Fittest replaced Divine Providence as its intellectual foundation. In a sense, this was little more than a dressingup in the newly-fashionable language of evolutionary theory. Nonetheless, the fashionable dress did lend the respectability and certainty of science. Acconling to the evolutionists, Aborigines ranked as one of the most primitive of human races: living fossils which had survived, through seclusion, in this remote part of the world. Since Europeans first encountered them, Aborigines had been regarded as a particularly low and inferior variety of humanity.4 The racial scientists of the late eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries had consistently placed them on the bottom of the racial hierarchy, along with Tiem del Fuegians and the Hottentots of The advent of evolutionary interpretations of humanity in the latter half of the nineteenth century did nothing to alter the Aborigines' placement on the racial hierarchy. It merely changed their reason for being there. No longer did their lowly status signify their ordained place in Creation. It now signified their retarded stage of advancement along an evolutionary sequence. It was their assumed primitivity which lent Aborigines their unique value to science. The physical anthropologist Dr W. Ramsay Smith asserted that: m_leonora1111: My friend firstdown don't waist your time with atheist if they don't come to you to proof their believe. If you believe in God, then you have a Bible. A book that have a beginning and an end. Theirs theory don't have a beginning and an end. It is not relevant for them to know if there is a beginning and an end. They know that there is a God, but they don't want that people descover their wrong doing. Pray for them my brother. I tried to follow you completely but my English is very bad. Sorry firstdown857: Leonora They say that a fool lives to eat and a wise man eats to live. But then the question remains: for what purpose does the wise man live? Living is not an end by itself. There has to be a purpose for man to live for. So what is this purpose? Where from? Where to? And Why? Any ignorance, however great, could be forgiven except for man to be ignorant about the secret of his existence, his aim in life and what will be his outcome after death. Some thinkers express these questions in simple words: where from? Where to? And why? Meaning: where did I come from? Where am I going? And why am I here? Those who only believe in the material world and who do not believe in a Creator- the atheists- only believe in sensory data. They say that this universe and everything in it came by itself. All its order is simply due to blind coincidence. They say that man is simply like an animal or a plant and that he will exist for a short period and then end like any other animal or plant..... I came not knowing from where, but I came. And I saw a pathway in front of me, so I walked. And I will remain walking, whether I want this or not. How did I come? How did I see my pathway? I do not know! Am I new or am I old in this existence? Am I free and unrestrained, or do I walk in chains? Do I lead myself in my life, or am I being led? I wish I know, but… I do not know! And my path, oh what is my path? Is it long or is it short? Am I ascending in it, or am I going down and sinking? Am I the one who is walking on the road, or is it the road that is moving? Or are we both standing, but it is the time that is running? I do not know! Before I became a full human, do you see if I were nothing, impossible? Or do you see that I was something? Is there an answer to this puzzle, or will it remain eternal? I do not know ... and why do I not know?? I do not know! firstdown857: Geek 8:22 Indeed, the worst of living creatures in the sight of God are the deaf and dumb who do not use reason. 8:23 Had God known any good in them, He would have made them hear. And if He had made them hear, they would [still] have turned away, while they were refusing . ---------------------- Passages relating to creation occur in the Qur'an is different places, such as: "Verily in the heavens and the earth are signs for those who believe. And in the creation of yourselves, and the fact that animals are scattered (through the earth), are signs for those of assured faith. And in the alternation of night and day, and that fact that God sends down sustenance from the sky, and revives therewith the earth after its death, and in the change of the winds, are signs for those who are wise" (45:3-5). Big Bang?..... The Qur'an says that "the heavens and the earth were joined together as one unit, before We clove them asunder" (21:30). Following this big explosion, Allah "turned to the sky, and it had been (as) smoke. He said to it and to the earth: 'Come together, willingly or unwillingly.' They said: 'We come (together) in willing obedience'" (41:11). Thus the elements and what was to become the planets and stars began to cool, come together, and form into shape, following the natural laws that Allah established in the universe. The Qur'an further states that Allah created the sun, the moon, and the planets, each with their own individual courses or orbits. "It is He Who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon; all (the celestial bodies) swim along, each in its rounded course" (21:33). Expansion of Universe ...... "The heavens, We have built them with power. And verily, We are expanding it" (51:47). There has been some historical debate among Muslim scholars about the precise meaning of this verse, since knowledge of the universe's expansion was only recently discovered. Six Days?....... The Qur'an states that "Allah created the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them, in six days" (7:54). While on the surface this might seem similar to the account related in the Bible, there are some important distinctions. The verses that mention "six days" use the Arabic word "youm" (day). This word appears several other times in the Qur'an, each denoting a different measurement of time. In one case, the measure of a day is equated with 50,000 years (70:4), whereas another verse states that "a day in the sight of your Lord is like 1,000 years of your reckoning" (22:47). The word "youm" is thus understood, within the Qur'an, to be a long period of time -- an era or eon. Therefore, Muslims interpret the description of a "six day" creation as six distinct periods or eons. The length of these periods is not precisely defined, nor are the specific developments that took place during each period. After completing the Creation, the Qur'an describes that Allah "settled Himself upon the Throne" (57:4) to oversee His work. A distinct point is made to counter the Biblical idea of a day of rest: "We created the heavens and the earth and all that is between them in six days, nor did any sense of weariness touch Us" (50:38). Allah is never "done" with His work, because the process of creation is ongoing. Each new child who is born, every seed that sprouts into a sapling, every new species that appears on earth, is part of the ongoing process of Allah's creation. "He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in six days, then established Himself on the Throne. He knows what enters within the heart of the earth, and what comes forth out of it, what comes down from heaven, and what mounts up to it. And He is with you wherever you may be. And Allah sees well all that you do" (57:4). The Qur'anic account of creation is in line with modern scientific thought about the development of the universe and life on earth. Muslims acknowledge that life developed over a long period of time, but see Allah's power behind it all. Descriptions of creation in the Qur'an are set in context to remind the readers of Allah's majesty and wisdom. "What is the matter with you, that you are not conscious of Allah's majesty, seeing that it is He Who has created you in diverse stages? See you not how Allah has created the seven heavens one above another, and made the moon a light in their midst, and made the sun as a (glorious) lamp? And Allah has produced you from the earth, growing (gradually)" (71:13-17). Life Came From Water...... The Qur'an describes that Allah "made from water every living thing" (21:30). Another verse describes how "Allah has created every animal from water. Of them are some that creep on their bellies, some that walk on two legs, and some that walk on four. Allah creates what He wills, for truly Allah has power over all things" (24:45). These verses support the scientific theory that life began in the Earth's oceans. Creation of Adam & Eve.......... While Islam recognizes the general idea of the development of life in stages, over a period of time, human beings are considered as a special act of creation. Islam teaches that human beings are a unique life form that was created by Allah in a special way, with unique gifts and abilities unlike any other: a soul and conscience, knowledge, and free will. In short, Muslims do not believe that human beings randomly evolved from apes. The life of human beings began with the creation of two people, a male and a female named Adam and Hawwa (Eve). The Qur'an describes how Allah created Adam: "We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape..." (15:26). And, "He began the creation of man from clay, and made his progeny from a quintessence of fluid" (32:7-8). Thus, human beings have a fundamental attachment to the earth. While the creation of Eve is not described in detail, the Qur'an does make it clear that a "mate" was created with Adam, from the same nature and soul. "It is He Who created you from a single person, and made his mate of like nature, in order that he might dwell with her in love" (7:189). She is not mentioned by name in the Qur'an, but in Islamic tradition she is known as "Hawwa" (Eve). From these two individuals, generations of human beings have inhabited the earth. "Oh humankind! We created you from a single pair of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, so that you may know each other (not that ye may despise each other). Verily the most honored among you in the sight of Allah is the who is the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things)" (49:13). NOW FOR TIME FOR YOU TO COME WITH LOGICAL ANSWER WITH EVIDNCE AND PROOFS ETC . ghostgeek: OK, so it's Allah we're dealing with now, is it? Fair enough. So a question about Allah. What was It doing before It decided to create something? ghostgeek: And how long was Allah doing this other thing before It decided to get out the building bricks and make the universe?
ghostgeek: Many people think that Allah/God is eternal but react negatively to the notion that the universe itself might be eternal. Seems believers want their cake to remain whole at the same time as wanting to gobbling it up, the greedy little buggers. Zanjan: Why should we care if the universe is eternal? What difference will that make in our lives? In truth, one only cares that it will be around long enough to live out their own lifespan. Science set out to answer that question. God already answered it, saying "Yes" but the atheists wanted to know from a different source. Science proved it will be around for a very long time, longer than anyone can count. Science showed the ever-changing universe back to the earliest time possible to record. As instruments became refined, they realized there was something before that, something simpler - condensed space - it held all the potential of the universe we see today. Our Sun, however, will eventually expand and gobble up the earth in 7.5 billion years. We have plenty of time to migrate to some other habitable planet. Since our species has defiled its own nest, science is already looking for one. Why aren't the religious looking for a new Purifier? If they did, we wouldn't have to escape. Who cares about the formation of the Universe? Everything was set up nicely on earth before humans appeared in their present form. We were unable to track the human story until 6 thousand years ago, so who cares about what humans did before that? According to science, they lived only to obtain food and shelter. That's all the animals cared about too. The Holy Books are about the history of religion and its future, not the earth or the universe. However, "Thy Will be done on earth as it is in heaven" so we can draw some similarities there - not exact equivalents. If you're going to convert spiritual events into physical events, it's like translating one language into another. (Edited by Zanjan) firstdown857: Zanjan DOES THOSE EITHERTS KNOW THAT GOD CLAIMED THE UNIVERS CREATION OR NOT?.CAN THEY BRING ANY SOLID EVIDNCE TO THE RAND BIG BANG\/ .IF NOT THEM ..... GOD SAID :- - On that day We will fold the heaven, like the folding of a book. Just as We initiated the first creation, We will revert it. This is Our promise. We will certainly fulfill it. (21:104) Do not these disbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were an integrated mass, which We then split, and from water We made all living things? Will they not believe even then? (21:30) With power did We construct Heaven. Verily, We are expanding it. (51:47) firstdown857: THE QUESTION IS WHAT COUSED THE BIG BANG . IF ANY ATHIEST HAVE THE ANSWER I WELCOME HIS ANSWER ? ghostgeek: Given the limitless eternity that is existence, why should you think that there are answers for every question? | Religion Chat Room 29 People Chatting Similar Conversations |