God Exists, Can You Prove Me Wrong ?? (Page 2)

Renaissance_Man
(Post deleted by staff 10 years ago)
chayim
chayim: False, the name yhvh יהוה, God clearly said to moses, he said to moses to abraham isaac and jacob i only acknowledged to them with my name "el shadai" but to you with my name yhvh

And the whole torah was written by moses, he wrote on himself his modesty, because God told him to write it
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Renaissance_Man
(Post deleted by staff 10 years ago)
chayim
chayim: The torah was written by moses only, period
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Renaissance_Man
(Post deleted by staff 10 years ago)
deuce916
deuce916: What did moses say chayi?
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Zanjan
Zanjan: Who are the 4 people, Ren?

It's clear that much of the Torah was written as a narrative *after the fact* but that doesn't mean the Words of Moses were forgotten - they were recorded in first person. There were plenty of witnesses. Those who went with Him on the Exodus knew everything about His life, and they well-remembered their own complaints and those of their brothers.

Also, Egyptians weren't in the habit of recording their failures, carving them in stone for the world to see forever. Much like the history of WW2 - we were all heros, right?

(Edited by Zanjan)
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Renaissance_Man
(Post deleted by staff 10 years ago)
Zanjan
Zanjan: I'm well aware of some historical inaccuracies, including some bad grammar, yes, recorded by third parties - that's not the Word of God, which is God speaking in the first person.

There's a difference between Moses, the Man, chatting over a cupa tea with His buddies and Moses, the Divine Revelator, speaking with the Voice of God. Moses spoke indirectly to start with - that is, His older brother did the talking. Or did you forget that Moses had a speech impediment?

#1 Person: God.... #2 Person: Moses...... #3 Person: Aaron..... #4 person - let's just say the passage of many hundreds of years explains the change in style and language.

I do appreciate that antiquity has taken its toll on the message, which is what's important. So few people are concerned about names, it's not worth dickering over. To me, King David was nobody special; how much less the truly insignificant kings, of which nothing is written.

I think we can do better than talk about ancient warriors and mucktified scrolls when making a point on whether or not God exists.


(Edited by Zanjan)
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bahcatha returns
bahcatha returns: Moses was an idiot,
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: chayi: The torah was written by moses only, period

chayi: The talmud says, the last 8 paragraphes in the torah was written or by his student yehoishia, or by God

Truth seems to be rather malleable when faced with awkward facts, like how could Moses write about his death.
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bahcatha returns
bahcatha returns: probably the same way that king Herod who died before Christ was born could put out a decree to kill Christ, religion is full of fable.
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Zanjan
Zanjan: Nobody knows the exact date Jesus was born - in the middle east, birthdays have never been important; one didn't celebrate them because that was considered a sign of vanity. They memorialized deaths instead.

Jesus's life on earth coincided with certain mentioned historical events, and mention of well-known names of those in authority. They didn't use the solar calendar we use, and they were technically off as it was.

The year of Jesus's birth is roughly estimated as between 5 B.C and the first year AD. Why would a few years in or out matter? The Chinese recorded a Supernova burst in the sky that year............good enough for me.

(Edited by Zanjan)
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chayim
chayim: Someone in the talmud says; that moses himself wrote the last paragraphs while he was dieing
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Renaissance_Man
(Post deleted by staff 10 years ago)
chayim
chayim: The jews have the right perfect calendar, and always had, the jewish calendar is by both, the moon and the sun combined together, the torah says, God created both, the moon and the sun for the seasons purpose, the nonjewish calendar is only according the sun, but the months are nothing according to the sun, the sun does not differ by months, only by the years, that it is surrounding the earth in a whole circulation in 365 days, but the months are according to the moon, that it is surrounding the earth about every 29 1/2 days, and the jewish calendar is according the moon and the sun
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Renaissance_Man
(Post deleted by staff 10 years ago)
chayim
chayim: Ren, you did not see what zanjan said
"They didn't use the solar calendar we use, and they were technically off as it was"
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Zanjan
Zanjan: Gee, I thought the calendar was influenced by the rotation of the earth on it's axis, and by the atomic clock. Leap years are weird - do we really need them?

My religion uses both solar and lunar for our calendar (it's the year 170 B.E. right now) but mostly solar, lunar for certain Holy Days (I never understood the purpose of that, myself) and with 19 months, each named by an attribute of God - that part, I do understand.

Living in Canada, I have a hard enough time to remember that the times to commemorate our religious events are a whole days' difference from the eastern hemisphere - we all want to be doing the same thing at the same time, you see. Now, factor in the stupid local daylight savings time and it's a nightmare!

Nevertheless, I still want a sundial and a water clock in my garden.

Ren, is it really off-topic? I mean, the very existence of different calendars in different religions supports the existence of God; therefore, no one can prove Chayi wrong on this.




(Edited by Zanjan)
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bahcatha returns
bahcatha returns: The use of B.C. means before Christ, how could Christ have been born anything B.C the second he was born started the use of A.D.
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bahcatha returns
bahcatha returns: Chayi correct me if I am wrong on this, but the Torah pre-dates the Bible, and according to the Bible Moses was not born until the book of Exodus, so how could Moses have written a Book that was written before he was born.
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bahcatha returns
bahcatha returns: Zanjan you referred to your religion which one would that be? you claim to be a true faithful follower of all of them.
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bahcatha returns
bahcatha returns: Reincarnation at it's best apparently. Judaism was the first religion therefore it stands to reason that the manuscripts pertaining to it also came into existence first,assuming the word of God is correct, the only way Moses could have written a book before he was born would be reincarnation. God says in Deuteronomy he made the Jews a special people unto himself above all people upon the earth, basically meaning made first
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chayim
chayim: No, Moses wrote Exodus
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Zanjan
Zanjan: "how could Moses have written a Book that was written before he was born."

For the same reason scientists and historians can. Oral accounts are passed forward in the collective memory of mankind - since 10,000 B.C. in the Eastern Hemisphere, and the Ice Age, in the Western Hemisphere. The Chinese have been keeping astronomical records since 1,400 B.C. Written language, as an alphabet, was invented more than 6000 years ago.

Jesus knew how old He was but others who saw him had to estimate His age. They didn't celebrate personal birthdays in those days; many in the East still don't to this day - it's considered vain. How big a difference do you think 4-5 years makes? His ministry was only 3 years.

Bahcatha, I'm a Baha'i. Yes, I can walk and chew gum at the same time. Judaism wasn't the first religion - religion has existed since the first human could grasp concepts of the spiritual realities.




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