Where the World's Religions are right now.

GeraldTheGnome: AFGHANISTAN :

ISLAM :

Gradually, Islam is consolidating itself through reform movements and becoming more homogeneous.

That is from the book, "The World's Religions, Second Edition', by Ninian (change your first bloody name because it's not a smart name) Smart. Chapter 20, Islam passes through the shadows, section, Reflections on Modern Islam, page 504.

Zanjan: The Sunnis and Shi'as will never unite.......neither will the Protestants and Catholics.

At best, they could be friends but that won't help them with their political problems.

GeraldTheGnome: Unfortunately I think you are right but if they could unite in some way or become more like each other while getting rid of the bad sides of each of those religions then that would be good enough and besides all of those religions should stop having people tie in religion with politics anyway.

GeraldTheGnome: AFGHANISTAN :

ISLAM :

'On the other hand, clashes of interest are promoted by nationalism.'

This is also from the the book, 'The World's Religions, Second Edition', by Ninian (go and get that stupid first name changed) Smart. Chapter 20, Islam passes through the shadows, section, Reflections on Modern Islam, page 504.

Zanjan: Nationalism sucks - it's the worst thing one could entertain in their mind. There's no place in Islamic scriptures to address that, probably because it didn't exist then. If the heart is in the right place, this wouldn't be an issue.

Some people just have no common sense!

GeraldTheGnome: But Islamic scriptures are sometimes used to justify that.

GeraldTheGnome: AFGHANISTAN :

ISLAM :

'Despite such obstacles to Islamic unity, at least the infrastructure is being laid, as more areas of the world take up a renewed Islam, going back to the early days and thinking about or activating* the rule of Islamic law. But there does remain a gulf between the revivalists who want to to back to the^ early foundations of Islam# and the more radical adaptors of the faith who aspire to some version of modern Islam#.'

That came from the book, 'The World's Religions, Second Edition' by Ninian (Ninny, Ninny, Noncompoop) Smart. Chapter 20, Islam passes through the shadows, section Reflections on Modern Islam, page 504.

^ I added a word # I added some words to replace one or more words or I rephrased it.

I can't stand religious revivalists, Islamic law ruling or any other damaging form of Islam. All forms of it should be void of being a problem.

Zanjan: "But Islamic scriptures are sometimes used to justify that."

Yes, and this is what's so painfully sad about ancient religions - they weren't meant for the exigencies of our day but people try to force them to adapt - it just doesn't work. In fact, some efforts in that arena are so comical, people from every religion and Meanwhile, atheists are mocking all of them.

Islam is a reflection of Christian history - if neither could become unified in the past, where did they suddenly get the new information and know-how to do it?

You see for yourself how many allow the wool to be pulled over their eyes in a desperate attempt to keep up, how it is they compete with each other instead of offering support. But this is just a temporary situation..............the age of information has put us on the road to something better; and, that destiny is walking out of the mist towards us.

GeraldTheGnome: I had to look that word up, I've never seen it before, I don't live in a politically correct world with politically correct words, hell, I love being politically incorrect. Demands, not exigencies, that way I can understand it rather than looking it up in the dictionary. You are right about what you meant though. The road has put us onto something better ? The information age has people putting selfies on the net like there's no tomorrow, videos about anything and everything like there's no tomorrow about themselves, messages about themselves without a thought for others while ignoring others most of the time, that is what the information age has promoted.

Also as I found out the last few days and this is directly to do with religion in Afghanistan, I've had to report a number of Taliban videos on youtube, one even started off with video footage of Bin Laden, another was in Pashto and English where the guy was going on about destroying the Karzai Government. Now I have no issue with destroying a government, but it is what he meant by destroying the government and also the fact that he wants a worldwide Caliphate with the capital in Afghanistan that has me worried, he mentioned a terrorist group that is operational in Afghanistan and it wasn't Al Qaeda. Most of the videos I saw had at the top 'The Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan', as my memory serves me, the last time that was officially used was when the Taliban ruled over most of Afghanistan.

But in some other ways the information age has improved certain things, even in regard to religion and made certain things, even that of religion, worse.

GeraldTheGnome: 'But where it has control of the majority of the population, the greater the pressure for a revivalist imposition of the Law.'

That is from the book, 'The World's Religions, Second Edition', by Ninian (a Ninny for have that as a first name) Smart. Chapter 20, Islam passes through the shadows, section, Reflections on Modern Islam, page 505.

GeraldTheGnome: I agree, the thing that I get panned with at times, you might do that also if that of the word peace and the words associated, where I then go on about why peace is, was and always will be mythical, where as calm has and will again at times exist. So I prefer to see the better kinds of Muslims as the types that want to be calm, placid and tranquil, I avoid the word peaceful word regardless of what religion someone is or isn't or even if they have one.

'A Footnote on the Limits of Islam: Ahmadiya.

Finally there does remain a question about the self-definition of Islam, which maybe we can illustrate through the Ahmadiya. This movement originated in India and it has had a fairly good success in converting from on belief to another* in certain parts of the world, for instance in West Africa. It has had a probably the greatest mission success of any Islamic organization and has over 10 millions members in various parts of the world.'

This is from the book, 'The World's Religions, Second Edition', by Ninian (who I hate the first name of) Smart. Chapter 20, Islam passes through the shadows, page 505.

So far with the exception of the Youtube videos I found and told you about which were all from Afghanistan, the rest of the information has been about all that are Muslims worldwide. On of the countries where the Ahamdiya form of Islam was introduced (which maybe more considered a cult) was Afghanistan. There are still followers of that form of Islam in Afghanistan right now.

* I replaced one word with a few words.

GeraldTheGnome: Yeah or something akin to the way a Jewish Cult was that broke away eventually, it's otherwise known now as Christianity.

'This idea about Jesus of course offended both Muslims and Christians, the former because the usual interpretation of the Qur'an has it that Jesus was never crucified. But in most ways, the life of Ahmadiya conforms to Islam, though it rejects the idea of military Jihad.'

That was from the book, 'The World's Religions, Second Edition', by Ninian (who needs her first name changed) Smart. Chapter 20, Islam passes through the shadows, section, A footnote on the limits of Islam: Ahmadiya, page 506.

There should be no Jihad of any sort and I have seen no proof that Jesus ever did or didn't exist anyway so it doesn't offend me even though I am a Christian. I'm sure there's still Christians and Muslims that are offended by it the Ahmadiya version of Islam. I must admit I'd see it as a similar religion to Islam rather than a branch of Islam, just from what I've read about so far.

GeraldTheGnome: All are not the truth, that is why.

'It will be observed from this that the tendency in modern Islam is to place a close definition on the religion in terms of doctrinal orthodoxy: a non-practicing orthodox Muslim is much better placed than a practicing non-orthodox person.'

That is from Ninian (that is still not a very smart first name) Smart, the author of the book, 'The World's religion, Second Edition.' Chapter 20, Islam passes through the shadows, section, A footnote on the limits of Islam: Ahmadiya, page 507.

Zanjan: Gerald: "Demands, not exigencies, that way I can understand it rather than looking it up in the dictionary"

I see your point; however, is it not better to learn new words than to forget how to speak English? God didn't intend for us to waste all that space in the brain that scientists claim we never use.

The information age isn't about self promotion - its about learning, using information we formally had no access to, usually because it was suppressed. I can still recall the Christians' threat of God striking one with a bolt of lightening should they ever open and read a scripture belonging to another religion.

Back in the 50's, they instilled fear into young hearts, telling kids there was no other religion - yeah, they used to say that, seriously. And the protestants told kids never to speak to Catholics, or associate with Catholic kids. Now, look how far everyone has come! Today's kids have no knowledge of that past; thus, no idea of what age they live in!

Islam in Canada is growing, but not by conversion. It's a good thing it's here because its recent visibility has taught people not to fear it. It has given the Christians & Jews a distraction, a chance to look in another direction instead of tearing each other apart.

Christians need to learn more about Islam. Today, I was reading about a Baptist mission in Ethiopia. With all good intentions, they wrote about how they were bringing people's hearts to Jesus, in particular, this one Muslim woman whom they wanted to convert. Fools! Muslims already believe in God and in Jesus - would it hurt to just learn a little, if only for the sake of respect, so they could know what they're doing???

Zanjan: Don't worry about Afghanistan, Gerald. Those people have been around for eons so are capable of surviving dictators.

As it's written, the government is a reflection of the people; they deserve the government they elect or put into place. When they're fed up, they'll change things. When they learn their lessons, they'll improve things. You cant take that right (of making errors) away from them.

GeraldTheGnome: It is always good to use new words, but it isn't always good to use new words or to use them at a place where they don't fit in or both, that is why I don't use the word exigencies, even after now knowing what it means. What God or God didn't intend for us doesn't matter because there is no proof that God does exist or did exist or that God doesn't exist or never did exist. More people should use more of their mind a properly to it's full effect and always try to use it in a positive manner, that is true.

The information age is used for self promotion as well, I am fighting against someone that is elsewhere on this very site over that very issue, the information age is a new highly addictive drug for the highly vain, also it is that for the hateful that are terrorists or for them or for some other reason, even for the religious and non religious types that are hateful. It is also about what you tell me but the danger with the information age is that it provides information that is dangerous and can bring about deaths just from the information alone if it is released to those that shouldn't see it. Some things are best kept secret after all.

My Mum is a Protestant from Northern Ireland, I am one, she has some ridiculous beliefs about Catholics, maybe even my Grandma did but neither of them or any member of my family from either side didn't bear grudges against Catholics, though the joke about Micks, which might be a bit harsh, also by a way of naming is harsh, did, does and will come up now and again. I don't know if that belief of the 50s is an accurate one or that of an assumption but the lightning bolt story was that of a gross exaggeration at best.

Islam growing anywhere within where it is a majority or that of a minority is not necessarily a good thing, there are many reasons why, even in Canada. The main reasons are why, by whom, by the fact that those born there grew up or moved to that country or later adopted a grudge or had a chip on their shoulder, not just about non-Muslims but about other Muslims because the grudge is either about unfair forms of assimilation or against fair forms of assimilation, depending on where they are and other reasons. So it may not be a good thing because the worst of them also are allowed to stay the way they are as well and in some cases it may mean that most of a certain religion of any type of religion are within a country either as a minority or a majority. Which way it is in Canada is at least unknown to me see I at least won't jump to the conclusion that it is a good thing over there. Particularly since Islam is all to often tied up with politics, religious law and law and order. These things should not be tied into any religion and Halal methods are not good things despite all the numerous excuses for the cruel act that I've known about for years. There are better ways of killing an animal for food purposes, if it is for eating meat. This thing that I'm against has similar or the same type of practice carried out in many parts of the world by non-religious and religious people (of various religions).

I've seen how far things have become, which has got worse in some ways and better in other ways, not truly a sign of positive progress over all, in a lot of ways the backward stop has been taken. Some of those fear those of a certain religion (and not just those that are Muslims) anywhere in the world, even in Canada, not the religion and certainly not that of Islam but that of some the Muslims there. Those that fail to fully assimilate there and elsewhere are those they fear because some that do fail to assimilate violently retaliate against the idea of assimilation to even a minor degree, even if those that fail to assimilate are Jews or Christians of which most which you don't notice don't 'tear each other apart.'

Christians don't need to learn more about Islam, Muslims don't need to learn more about Christianity, everyone of any kind should just learn to assimilate instead rather than using their religion as an excuse for things. Missionaries are not in general good people but bleeding heart forcers with good intentions, sometimes with good results but mainly with bad results even if they are only subtle bad results. No one should convert to anything, willingly of their own ways, not brought about by others at best if they wish, is the only way anyone should take on a religion. Jesus and God/Allah have all not been proven to exist or not exist so therefore who is fooling who ? I wouldn't follow the conversion attempt of a missionary anyway nor should anyone else..

Those in Afghanistan have put up with Dictators, yes, also a government there or anywhere is not a reflection of the people, it is a reflection of the egos of those politicians only. So they don't deserve whatever government they elect or put in place because in reality there was a lesser of two evils usually and also governments serve themselves, not the people. Governments are too busy pampering to the minorities in some ways (even in Afghanistan (mainly in religious ways there)) at all costs, the reason why is because they believe that this will get them votes and they will also make token efforts to the majority of any population or threaten violent retaliation if the majority doesn't agree just to get votes, unless of course they rig an election or just have no elections and/or stay with a one party situation of an unfair kind. Religion, religious law, law and politics should not be mixed together in Afghanistan and yet it is by an unfair as well as a very corrupt government that do in a way allow Sharia Law to exist and in a extreme way, Sharia Law shouldn't exist anywhere in the world. You can take that right (of making errors) away from them.

Zanjan: "the lightning bolt story was that of a gross exaggeration at best. "

They, meaning more than one person, actually said that. Wasn't me who exaggerated. When I was young, I mocked them but, years later, I realized it was a good line because lighting bolts do hit people - figuratively and literally. I reckoned there was a choice so I picked the figurative. There's actually text to support 'the flash'.

" The main reasons are.......... that those born there grew up or moved to that country or later adopted a grudge or had a chip on their shoulder........"

Yes, that's a localized cultural clash, not religious. Some people just can't shake a resentment that jelled when they were young. My dear, 89 year old Ukrainian-born, German mother-in-law is still as uncomfortable around blacks as she was during WW2. Fortunately, none of her children are that way.

I have two sisters like that (we were all born in Canada, including our parents). There's no real explanation why one sister hates French people because we never had any out here in Western Canada. The other sister joined a religion that held blacks as 'lesser' than whites. You know, our parents were prejudiced against all religion but not against any race or ethnic group. Only one out of 4 offspring didn't develop any prejudices. How does this happen? Nothing to do with religion, I can assure you.

All said and done, those foreign born came here because they weren't satisfied with their own country. Perhaps this country will have a much better influence on them and their children. Muslims parents are like any other - they fear their children will leave their religion and fall prey to what they call 'westernization', a euphemism for civilian society.

Well, they're right - many kids do fall away. The majority in Canada is non-religious. Young people will always be influenced by the majority in society. Unfortunately, multicultural North America is a very materialistic society - the devil has his attractions.

Zanjan: "Particularly since Islam is all to often tied up with politics"

You'd have to look hard to find a religion that forbids political involvement. Can you name any?

Every hunter knows if you don't quickly bleed the animal when killed, the blood goes into the meat and it spoils. This is ancient knowledge; likewise, religious sacrifice - the animals were properly 'bled' to death, which is the most humane way of killing.

In modern civilized society, we don't sacrifice animals to the Gods - apparently, this was an advancement made by Christianity, which claims God gave His only Son so we wouldn't have to slaughter innocent animals anymore. I'm not so sure that's the reason; personally, I'm fine with cash contributions and/or martyrdom.

The problem with elections is that none are done right. They're poorly structured and involve partisan political groups. They tangle with the evils of nominations and electioneering, spending more money and time on campaigns than in government service. Plus, even if they actually knew anything about the person they're voting for, they don't keep their vote secret. It's all a total mess everywhere. Such is a product of spiritual blindness.

GeraldTheGnome: Actually, let's be honest, sometimes there's a mix of culture clashes and religious clashes, sometimes independent of each other, sometimes not. Even in Canada.

Zanjan: Actually, you'd be very surprised. Canada has changed enormously in the last 30 years due to persistent efforts of good-hearted people to push the positives and not fear the differences - that comes with a concerted campaign of education at the grass roots level, working it's way up to top politicians.

Beginning with a huge collective focusing on multiculturalism, those inroads made to acceptance of diversity paved the way to unravel the tangle of religion and culture; that is, we've discovered we're actually a product of our environment - not religion and not tradition. That's a leap in modern thought, finally accepted by the sciences.

Peace can only be advanced by changing our environment. This takes courage and love; thankfully, we found enough people in religion willing to work on that through the Multi-Faith movement. I can assure you, Baha'is were the first to ride the crest of that wave. You know what? It really wasn't that hard........the time was ripe - we've become more alike than you ever thought so all that was needed was to start the ball rolling. Due to those efforts, Canada officially honours World Religion Day.

Those clashes you speak of don't really happen in this country anymore. We all like it that way. The United States isn't far behind...they're still dealing with a a few mentally disturbed radical groups.

GeraldTheGnome: Never kid yourself, they maybe rare, but they do happen. As I ate my delicious Steak last night I thought, it's good that innocent animals don't get slaughtered any more. Sacrificed by someone in order for that person to make a buck for me to eat the meat. Islam is too tied in with politics, more than most religions and Religions imposing any law is ridiculous. A loose association at best is okay but religion and politics should not be mixed. Martyrdom of what sort ? The mention of Martyrdom and the obsession with it is very scary. How is it okay ? There should be spiritual nothing with elections. There's still no proof that God does or doesn't exist.

Multiculturalism does have its good sides but it has its downsides. Non assimilation IS a downside. Oh and some of those that leave a country are criminals or have a chip on their shoulder, won't assimilate etc.

GeraldTheGnome: 'At any rate in a number of countries, such as Sudan, Pakistan and Malaysia, there is the pattern of Islamic Law being required and there are calls in a whole range of countries for similar legislation. This spirit of revivalism seeks to restore practice to what it was; but often its mission is conducted in most up-to-date terms. We can discern some of the dimensions of this form of* Islam as follows.' We ? What is with the we ? Anyway it's from the book, 'The World's Religions, Second Edition, Chapter 20, Islam passes through the shadows, section, Dimensions of Revived Islam, page 507.'

I am against so-called 'Revived Islam' and I don't want it and Islamic Law to exist any more.

* I added a few words.

Zanjan: " it's good that innocent animals don't get slaughtered any more."

Yes, you should only eat the guilty ones. I've tried many times to become a vegetarian but eventually strayed backed to my ill-begotten beginnings. At my age, I have grave doubts on getting rid that baggage. At least I'm seriously against sport hunting and caging - die, feedlots, DIE!