Are we born, by default, Atheist? (Page 2)

lori100: yes, Jack , there are books about kids talking about their past lives, dead relatives in detail that they never met on earth......

Comrade_: Newborn babies, Lori?

I'm not aware of these studies but I'll see if I find any on what you're referring to.

lori100: no, not newborns lol , but kids who can talk, they are not fully immersed in the physical life yet, often talk about spirits, God, dead relatives.....

Comrade_: ok I've heard of a case of a young child but she was suffering from a mental disorder. I think newborns might be more reliable since they've not be taught anything directly, even language.

lori100: abcnews--------Jim Tucker, a child psychiatrist and medical director of the Child and Family Psychiatric Clinic at the University of Virginia, is one of the few researchers to extensively study the phenomenon of children who seem to have memories of past lives.

He says James' case is very much like others he has studied.
----------------"At the University of Virginia, we've studied over 2,500 cases of children who seem to talk about previous lives when they're little," Tucker said. "They start at 2 or 3, and by the time they're 6 or 7 they forget all about it and go on to live the rest of their lives."

GeraldTheGnome: Untainted than ignorant would be more suitable.

Comrade_: You are offended by the word 'ignorant'? It has a meaning that isn't insulting but reflects what a baby is 100% (unless you believe the same as Lori) and what we are to some degree.

GeraldTheGnome: It is offensive in the context that it was used in.

Comrade_: Which context is that?

Saying that a baby is ignorant on the subject of God?

Quote where you felt it happened.

GeraldTheGnome: Just look at it rather than fight me about it. It's not worth a fight after all.

Comrade_: This is not me fighting. This is me giving you a chance to expand your points.

Which context was it and which quote did you feel offended by? Was it the statement that babies are ignorant?

From gathering this, I can explain it to you in a simple form.

GeraldTheGnome: Of course it was, I thought it was all self explanatory. Don't simple form me ! That is just patronizing.

GeraldTheGnome: Just drop the issue and let's just see if others think people are born Atheists rather than the see the belief that atheism and ignorance are always tied together.

Comrade_: It will benefit you more to be humble and less prone to taking things personal and being overly sensitive on matters.
All it takes is to expand your thoughts to avoid misunderstandings.

I will explain it to you now. There are two views on the matter of who is an atheist, one meaning states "lack of the belief in a deity (deities)". This is very simple and some do use this to mean that a newborn is an atheist because it lacks a belief in a deity/deity. The other view is much deeper to mean someone who takes a stance to not believe in a deity (deities). The latter one requires a conscious decision and an understanding of the matter while the first doesn't (aka ignorance).

My personal view is the latter, that taking a side for theism or atheism requires knowledge on the situation.

A newborn is considered ignorant because it hasn't acquired full knowledge. This isn't an insult. We're all ignorant to a degree, no one possesses full knowledge on every matter. This doesn't mean we're doomed but means we have room to improve and gain knowledge.

Take your PC nonsense somewhere else. Grazie.

GeraldTheGnome: Don't be rude, I am humble, something you are not, I'm not overly sensitive, you are wanting to flog the dead horse, not me. This isn't an Italian word site either. It's nothing personal, it's just when I see a rash statement then I show it to be rash. I asked you to drop it, though it is something you don't want to do, instead you want to act like everyone is under you. You asked a question, I told you that yes we are all born as Atheists, it is not a choice, we are born that way. There was no need for that of you, Lori and I. I should've just used one word, yes. Maybe that would have stopped the excuses and other stuff that wasn't needed.

The only thing I am prone to is arrogant PC nonsense from you, not me. I disagree with you or your mates then suddenly there's the assumption that I'm the worst person in the world that only comes out with nonsense. Grow up and be polite to others for once in your life.

Comrade_: Sensitivity at play again.
I asked you those questions after you made a statement about something being offensive to you in an attempt to understand your view point and explain it further so you'd see there is nothing offensive. Which turned out to be a waste of time. I'll leave you to yourself and step over your comments from now on since you don't seem to handle questioning.

GeraldTheGnome: I asked you not to pursue it, which would have been the fair thing to do. I can handle questioning, it doesn't mean that the best thing to do is to answer every question though. This was a time where it was best not to answer, it is not about being sensitive, it is about being fair, I understand your explanations, in a way it was offensive. How doesn't matter because when the avenue of it going further than just an explanation going on the past experiences of people that have contacted you, not just me or that of any personal feelings, is greater than anything else than that is of course it is a waste of time.

I don't care about your personal feelings towards me or to others or that of my own to you or to others, I was keeping that out of this, also none of this is literally comments and don't go to some liberal interpretation added into a dictionary, you've done that. The simplest form is to see the viewpoints of whoever else joins this forum. We have both seen what the other comes out with on here, let's leave it at that, that is the simplest form that is needed. Let's just be fair and ignore each other on this forum to the point where neither one of us is typing, not 'saying' anything to the other. No stepping over anything.

Comrade_:
You can't expect to make a statement and when asked to expand on it backtrack and say 'forget it'. Your statement was uncalled for and I didn't attack you on it, I gave you the opportunity to expand on it and say where you felt offended by the word 'ignorant'.

I'm not interested in engaging any discussion with you if you'll take everything as a personal attack. If you can put your feelings aside and see my words for what they are (something direct) then it will result in a proper discussion.

GeraldTheGnome: This is not a discussion place, a place where we are literally not saying anything, people can and will tell you to forget something when the words back are something like 'I'll tell you in simple form', that hints at not just a sign of arrogance but that of a superiority complex, I though you haven't worked it out did put my feelings aside, I do not take everything as a personal attack. I only do, with feelings aside, that we all at least try to be fair to each other and treat each other as equals, I try to do that to everyone on here, including you but you don't return that favour to not just me but to others, I did nothing wrong to you. Where you were going was obvious and I saw your words for what they were and are, even in the directness of it.

GeraldTheGnome: Thought not though.

Serabi:

Yes, babies are born atheists. Then they get indoctrinated into believing.

Comrade_: 1) You are offended by me saying "I'll tell you in a simple form". -Which only means I'll repeat it in a way that could be understood without misunderstanding the statements made.
2) Offended by the use of the word "ignorant". -Even though it is used in its proper form to mean 'lacking knowledge'.
3) You viewed me questioning your statement and letting you expand on it as a 'fight'.

Anything you're offended by again?

Do you see why it is best I leave you to it and step over your comments? Good, because I will have to do this since you're taking things to heart.

Comrade_:
ok Serabi.

GeraldTheGnome: I'm not taking anything anywhere. Serabi worked out where I'm coming from. Her nature is very different than hers, nothing behind the scenes with Serabi, that is her appealing side, she doesn't act innocent when she's not. Stepping ? Just be fair for once. I still never literally put comments on here so I can't take offence over something that I didn't do. Not agreeing with you or any of your mates brings about the unfair side of you. There's no need for the Dictionary term of what ignorant means, the obvious didn't need to be shown, no misunderstanding. Only. The only always goes somewhere else with or without someone realizing it.

Comrade_: I've not restricted anyone in the thread from expressing their view. I only questioned you when you said that "ignorance" is offensive in the context used. You can't point to one incident where I've attacked you for your view on the topic. I've only confronted you based on the statement that what I said was offensive.

So please save the bs.