Will religion ever cleanse itself of its incredibly filthy laundry? (Page 5)

Zanjan: Nancy, you reminded me of the de-programing years. Are you familiar with that? I was there to see it happen. All those youth were courted on the streets and in universities by new cults - they had huge sign ups and taught their newbies to separate themselves from the world, including their usual friends and families because those people weren't chosen by God.

Their families believed their kids were "brainwashed" so they hired professional de-programmers to kidnap them from the cults and isolate them in secret hotel rooms for weeks. They put them through what I can only describe as akin to militant communist indoctrination - who was doing the brain-washing then? THIS is what changed my mind about worrying over those who appear to be making a mistake.

What's filthy about believing as we wish, speaking what we wish, and living as we wish? What's filthy is when you cheat and harm others, not yourself. Let them drink the koolaid - those who weren't informed it was spiked will be compensated in the next world for the wrong done to them.

What about the young Muslim boys who were used to clear minefields and told they would die as martyrs? Do you seriously think they were brainwashed into believing that? Never underestimate the intelligence of a child. Those kids knew they had no choice - had they refused, their fate would have been much worse. God will compensate them too for the wrongs done to them.

In my experience, there's no such a thing as 'brain-washing' - only people who are easily influenced. It doesn't take much to encourage exposure of what is already in one's heart, for good or bad. There's no manipulation. Don't conflate that with the "users" - those who have controller personalities stick out like a sore thumb.

On the other hand, there's such a thing as heart-purifying; this occurs only through a private relationship between God and the individual.

CoIin: Oh, how ironic

* returns to playing vituoso Paganini to my pet Siamese fighting fish *

Zanjan: Please explain the irony of your head banging.

Zanjan: Latest news: Pope told the Watch Dog to ensure that priests who sexually abuse are prosecuted. WOW, as if he had any other choice.

He said he wanted to 'eradicate this filth from the church'. Finally, no more administrative obstruction of justice. I wonder which filth was worse. But hey, it's not like they're were Al Qaida.

If religion had so much control over people as some here say, these sorts of things would never have happened.

GeraldTheGnome: To the original question, dunno and I very much doubt it unfortunately. Join Gnomism, be one with the Gnome, be the Gnome, the Gnome of your choice, Gnome sweet Gnome, the Laundry is always cleaned, a load is put into the washing machine and spin dried on a daily basis. I will even fold your clothes for you at such a large fee that you'll be screaming out Jesus f'ing Christ and other blasphemous things, even if you're a Mormon that's the head of your Chapter or whatever the hell the term is.

There's nothing like Gnome, the men that put me in the strait jacket before I escaped told me so. Maybe, "The Bible told me so." Well, what do you know ? A non church going Agnostic Theist still does vaguely remember the hymns.

Zanjan: Laundry is unnecessary when you don't have any clothing.

To get naked, you have to clean the debris from your mind - all that baggage dragged in from a perverse society dams up the brain; one has to OPEN THE CHANNEL to let the sweet water of truth flow freely. Then you have to sweep the mind's doorstep at the end of every day to keep the waters from getting muddy. It takes one person at a time.

Singing wont get you anywhere.

lori100:


Vatican City's XXX Secret
www.huffingtonpost.com---------------Porn Downloaded From IP Address In Vatican City ----------
Someone in Vatican City had better get to confession. Torrent Freak has unearthed the download history from an IP address in the Pope's place of residence and some of the movies are of the porn persuasion.-------------------------Torrent Freak has unearthed the download history from an IP address in the Pope's place of residence and some of the movies are of the porn persuasion.

For a full list of the dirty downloads, go to Torrent Freak.

Rev. Debra Haffner of the Religious Institute told The Huffington Post she's "not surprised" at the Vatican City findings.

"I'm not surprised learning that anyone looks at erotica on the Internet," Haffner said in an email.

She also pointed to the Religious Institute's survey which found that "one in five clergy reported intentionally visiting a sexually explicit website in the past six months."

Zanjan: Who's worse, the victim or the spy?

Zanjan: Corruption always crashes a civilization, religious or otherwise. Yet somehow, after catastrophic disaster, a new civilization has always risen in its stead.

On the bright side, we live in a day where common people have found their voice in a peaceful way to inform their own countrymen of the truth. Unlike WW2, the majority can no longer say they didn't know; so, it's up to them what to do with that information.

Africa is probably the worst place on earth right now; it pains me we cant do anything about the grave and massive injustice and vicious evil going on there. Yet man has to walk through this nightmarish tunnel before he realizes what needs to be done and does it.

The only resolution to these problems is a change of heart - people at the grass roots level have to do the changing. We know empowerment starts at home. Only then will people be enabled to select a leader with integrity.

GeraldTheGnome: I don't see it as peaceful, but that of calm, but I get what you mean. You already know that I consider peace to be as real as the Easter Bunny and that it always will be that way, as it is right now.

Zanjan: Millions believe that.....and if I thought like that too, I'd give up trying to make peace anywhere - how would that enhance the situation? We have to strive, each within our means, for what is achievable in baby steps towards greater possibilities.

When we clearly understand war isn't profitable and divisiveness isn't conducive to prosperity, we WILL find new ways to become wealthy, healthy and safe.

While history is cyclical, you cant judge the whole future by a selective past. The age we live in is proof of that. More and more people are accepting that humanity is one and our diversity is important; more and more choose not to war against anyone.

We're growing up, both individually and collectively. I see humanity is beginning to leave its adolescence behind. Plus, we now have tools and tech that never existed in the past. The combination of these things makes me certain permanent world peace is inevitable.

This is the time. So, we're working quickly towards that - learning unity and moving towards political peace is already in progress. My religion calls that achievement the "Lesser Peace" - it's an end to war in its outward form. The final attainment is *The Most Great Peace*, which pertains to both outward and inner peace. Well, I'm just happy to see people laying down their weapons.

GeraldTheGnome: Millions believe in a myth that never has, never will and isn't a reality. That myth has a name that name is peace. What really does exist is calm, it has existed, it will exist, I don't think it is around at the moment though unfortunately. Cyclical, a buzz word at best, it does have some meaning though and I understand what you mean about it. I very much doubt that every single religious figure of note in the world will be clean in the future but there is a rare chance that that might happen.

Humanity is made up of humans that are very different than each other so I can't see how claiming that humanity is adolescent can be justified, that only showcases the minority of humans, not that of most or all humans in the world, past, present and future.

Zanjan: Would you equate modern man to a cave dweller, a Neanderthal? Well, maybe a few, but over all? Don't you think we've come a long ways from hunter-gatherers, naked tribals, dressed in mud and bones, and from illiterate peasants? I'm speaking of the collective state of humanity.

Mankind has moved through its stage of infancy, which lasted nearly 1 million years. As it moved through its childhood, lasting another million years, it gained a more advanced brain so man could become aware of God and perceive a relationship with the divine. Still, man was very dependent on family and tribe for individual survival.

From there, mankind moved into its adolescence, gaining more independence, and has remained in that state since the dawn of written language - this development has moved along very quickly on the calendar of creation.

We've tracked this evolution and these developments carefully to the present. This past century has shown us a blast of change and awakening of thought, fostered through education, throughout all peoples and nations. The planet has shrunk, East has met West, Earth has become a global village, moving into a global society.

All that has happened through the great migration of peoples, the sharing of knowledge and education. While individuals have become independent, countries have become interdependent to such a degree they cant wall themselves off from the world anymore.

The interconnection of global economics, finance, technology, and environment is so tight that one cannot war on one side of the planet without it instantly affecting the other side.

Yes, there's always been war but there's always been peace too - just not globally at the same time for either. Both have stretched out over hundreds of years, then reversed for as long. If you keep looking at one thing, that's all you're going to see.

This is the picture of the past. The picture of the future is very different because nation-building is over; war is no longer successful or feasible - that reality is inescapable.

GeraldTheGnome: No, but I don't see it as adolescence or infancy, in some ways humans are better off, in other ways worse off. Not much has really changed in many ways, power obsession is now the major 'plague' that humans that have power and those that don't have to deal with, most humans suffer because of this, a minority of religious figureheads from all religions have exploited this and will continue to do so since right now it is still going on.

GeraldTheGnome: War may not be this or that but there's no 100 % guarantee that war won't break out in the future under the guise of religion or by some other name.

davesdatahut: If history is any guide, you can take it to the bank that war will break out somewhere over religion. It's a virtual guarantee. It's actually happening right now in Syria. Although ostensibly a political struggle, it's really about the Alowites versus the Sunnis. At some point, perhaps in the next year or so, Sunni-Shiite conflicts in Iraq are likely to boil over again into some kind of war. And, of course, there is the never ending sparring between Muslims and Jews in Israel. Just a few examples of how religion is far more likely to destroy humanity than save it.

near50ohoh: the answer to your forum's title can be quick and simple. no. at least not until they start the laundry process going. but some are trying to reconcile so maybe it has at least finally begun, the first coins are in the machines, and i hope they keep going. i join in those talks and boards whenever i can

GeraldTheGnome: Talks ? It's text, but I got you and I like your message in general.

near50ohoh: sorry my age is showing sort of this is text yes but there are talks as well elsewhere i promise. but forgiveness of past issues or sins ? healing can only begin when forgiveness is asked for .

GeraldTheGnome: That it will, at least I hope it will.

near50ohoh: greater minds than ours, i guess. i hope too

GeraldTheGnome: Yep, Aliens before they probe everyone.

near50ohoh: too many scifi movies lately, huh? what do u think of the theory that aliens actually gave us all religions known today and known languages? since this is religion chat

GeraldTheGnome: I was trust trying to lighten up the mood, this isn't a chat spot in a literal sense but actually Scientology is considered a very cult based religion, so it kind of fits. You mentioned greater minds. If Aliens do exist then is it possible that all or some of them have greater minds than that of any human ? What would they make of the various religions on Earth and their problems anyway ? Would they, if they exist have one or more religions to go on and would they have incredibly filthy laundry also ?