Teaching Religion to Kids: Is it Fair?

Coffrey: I think one thing we can all agree on is, we don't want to fuck up the kids. They are our future, they will run the world in about 40 years. So we don't want them to be messed up. That said, why is it a good or bad idea to teach kids that any given religion is true when you're also teaching them about Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy and so on, myths that will eventually find not to be true, but they believe it anyway?

Serabi: Santa brings presents to children when they have been good during the year but he doesn't threaten them with eternal damnation when they slip up. They will gradually lose faith in Santa, the Tooth Fairy, etc. By that time they are so terrified of not believing in God, it will screw with their heads for the rest of their lives.

Free will - no way!

Coffrey: Yeah, if they teach that if you're bad boy, SANTA WILL BURN YOU IN HELL FOREVER, they'll always have that belief

harlett: Religion means too gather logic................your not going too teach your child LOGIC gathering SKILLS.......

which greatly differs from indoctrinating your children into the main stream cults on planet earth...

lavendar_star: I think they should teach religion in religious studies classes but not as truth as such but exploration on how these religions came to be and what they have and do contribute to society both good and bad. I think children eventually can see through the BS of other myths compared to religion as there isn't a whole network of sources which reinforces that any given religion is true. Some children whose parents are not fanatical or conservative or who are non religious are able to separate truths from myths. Also what is a bigger incentive money, presents or God's or Jesus's eternal love and forgiveness and what is a bigger fear coal in sack or burning forever in hell and God's vengeful damnation.

@Harlet I dont think religion means to gather logic I thinks its the opposite and I think if children use logic they are more likely to be non believers in religion as i did as a child.

Geoff: No, kids are generally too naive to have the mental faculties to question what they are exposed to. They should be taught to question what they are told, not brainwashed with a mindset that tells them that they will endure eternal punishment if they disagree.

Let them find their own way.

Farwuq: ^^ Yes, I think kids should be taught to: 1: Love themselves. 2: Always be true to who they are/trust themselves above ALL else. 3: Think for themselves, and don't necessarily, believe anything somebody else says; whether it be teachers, friends, media (especially), or even necessarily, take their own parents words for absolute law/truth.

Farwuq: ^^ I agree with Geoff: Guide them, and support them always, and let them find their own way.

CoIin: Show them all the beauty they possess inside

harlett: ETERNAL....DAMNATION...............??????..........

i take it..........you all figure ....that murderers... who are caught here on earth and in time &date... who are success fully trialed .. given various sentences.paid their dues..for the crimes they committed against life and living....

I will never understand y some folks insist on being some what combative...haughty...and well down right arrogant..... when asserting their individuality.......independent thinking.....

does anyone who so ever....actually believe for a moment....that a creature of supernatural and organic stature.. gives a hoot who or how many folks get that they EXIST.....geeeee-----ish... i get questioning the doctrines the main stream cults have devised for them self too own and control the world at large...... and voicing having a problem with how they spun mongered their message.............

yet..... i actually think... it's way too foolish too be down right insulting while calling out a supernatural organic existence too prove beyond a reasonable too the likes of yourself.. that they exist...like you'd be able too stand some kind ground when confronted... with "do you believe in me now "

................SAVE YOURSELF...from that moment.........while U can .....

Comrade_: I think the vast majority grew up with some religious teachings, from there some branched off to other religions, others branched off into atheism, and perhaps some remain or drew away from said religious teachings. In all the vast majority of us are not fucked up. It is up to the parent, no legislation can be put in place to state otherwise. On Santa/Easter Bunny, (I personally don't teach it as truths to my son, he asked me one time about it and I told him the truth on what I know, he was ok with it, this is only my personal experience, I know what my kid can/can't handle, each parent will know their own kid and how to address those things), are there any adult who believe in either one of them? The point is regardless of what is taught, a person grows up and makes their own choices and inevitably they will be expose to other views and perspectives.

Coffrey: That's not always true, Jack. Parents teaching their kids religion is the singular reason why many people are religious today. I mean, except for the prison system, people who have grown up with a religion or no religion, usually don't switch to some random religion in the course of their adult life.

Comrade_: And you don't think that being religious was a choice? A parent teach their kid in the best way they can, as adults they make that decision, because you yourself are not religious doesn't give you any say on how a child should be brought up unless that child is yours.
They do switch to another religion, you can check the stats on muslim converts etc.

Coffrey: The three largest religions are all selling the same product. Whether you become a Jew, Muslim, or Christian largely depends on your geographical region .So no, I don't think it's a choice, belief isn't a choice, but choosing to gather more facts is. I was brought up religious, like most people, it was milk toast, just for the community. But I broke free just from reading the bible, which most people never do. I'm talking really read, not just the John 3:16 and Lev whichever one talks about men lying with other men. The problem is, once they get old enough, when you talk to them about this, they don't want to hear it or believe it because of the fear of Hell. That's where the real problem lies.

Geoff: Perhaps children should put two and two together. They are eventually told that Santa isn't real, and on that day they should remember everything they were told about Jesus.

Coffrey: That's the difference though. Once you get older, the only reason you stop believing in Santa is either someone tells you or other kids start making fun of you for still believing. Unfortunately, that never happens with Jesus.

Comrade_:
I was referring to the West though Coffrey, Islam is not forced here (hence the word choice) there are a lot of converting, as to why there is converting I don't know but what I can be sure of there is no force used.
I don't view it as ridged set thing, there is a lot of Globalisation and this opens the way for different concepts to spread including religion, but I see more and more that adults draw away from Religion (not just conversion, take a look at the attendance of Christian religion in areas where they were strong a few years ago, also the general 'power' the Church once had is not there, it is going gradually). It boils down to the adult choosing, teaching a child atheism to me would be the same as another dogma, a child gets what the parent's know but in a perfect world a kid would be taught to question and search rather than forced-fed a dogma (theist/atheist). In the end it is no one's say on what a parent should/shouldn't teach a child in the privacy of their home provided that it is legal and don't cause harm.

Coffrey: In terms of adult conversion, I bet there are many other factors other than simply truth there, like peer pressure, someone interpreting a "religious experience" for them or an overall need to fit better into the community. For instance, you're not going to see some white boy in the suburbs become a Muslim or someone in a pakistani community become a Jew, that's all I'm saying.
I get the impression you aren't an atheist. Any atheist with a "dogma" isn't an atheist because what is our dogma? The only thing that binds atheist is a non-belief in any other religious. There are different levels of atheist, like people who think there is no god or people who don't think they have found the right religion yet. As I can only speak for myself on this, I wouldn't teach my kid that there is no god or that there is one, I would educate him a bit on the various religions and he can make up his own mind. And he'll probably be atheist because he won't be taught if you don't believe you'll burn, or you should believe because everyone else does.

Comrade_: I never gave the factors, only that there are conversions by adults (who are fully functional thinkers) but then they say 'truth' is subjective. Regardless of the various reasons in the end it is not by force.
Some do actually risk their community's norm, that is what conversions do (changing a religion one is brought up in within the community or family). The reason for that can be exposure rather than 'fitting in'. (btw there were Jews in Pakistan & suburbs White boys muslims, but I'd not argue the point as I got why you used it and there are cases that fit what you say while there are cases that will not).
I don't see why being an atheist/theist will matter in this as I'm taking a shot of the topic without any bias or favouritism.
We can agree then a Kid can be taught what a parent knows and make the decision on his own as he get's older? There are also religions that don't teaches in burning in hell as a punishment (within some parts of Christianity, Judaism) .

Coffrey: There is no such as subjective truth, that's why theists get testy in conversations, they think they have the only truth. There is only one truth and if you think you have it, then everyone running around you thinking differently is wrong. With teaching religion to kids, you're teaching them an absolute truth. To any non-theists, it would probably be equivalent to arguing against gravity, or the more obvious case of evolution. To us, to dispute facts is ridiculous, it's the same with theists, except their facts are in quotes ("fact".

Obviously, there are cases of white boy Muslims and Pakastani jews, I'm just saying it's unlikely. Sometimes this and sometimes that, but there are exceptions to every rule, makes no sense to focus on that.

Comrade_: I should changed that to 'Religious truths' being subjective, when you stated that "I bet there are many other factors other than simply truth there...", that 'truth' or contentment of 'truth' or what is 'taught' is subjective, that is why you'd find people leaving one Religion and others entering. No? Well that was just what I thought on it.

And you view yourself as having the truth on various life's questions, those you are free to discuss/share/tell your kid(s), outside of your house there are others who say they have the truths and answers to life's questions, they will also be free to discuss/share/tell their own kid(s). As children get older they will (no matter how hard a parent try) be exposed to other 'truths' and from there they will make their decisions: To continue, leave to go to another religion, or drop Religion in total, or just not really give a shit. They will not all become atheist as adults (regardless if they were all taught a religion/ none).

It kinda makes sense to focus on it as it shows that people do go against their comfort zone for Religion as is the case of conversion.

Edit: the best teaching to add will be the view of questioning and maintaining curiousity, it might be the best tool in later life than any form of "truth-teaching"

Coffrey: Then we agree completely. Like I said, teaching a kid "Hey this is wrong and this is wrong and this is wrong" is the same as teaching them that something is right. The difference is, to us non-theists, the fact that you burn your hand is something you can test and only things you can test are things you should believe in. Religion teaches you believe something you cannot test and then just label it faith.

As you said, people grow up and don't always follow the same faith as their parents, but that's not justification for teaching the kid in a certain religious way. I bet you all the money in the world (which means I'm about to use an absurd experiment, haha, but it still has a point) if you took a kid, taught him the religion of Santa Claus and put him in environment where everyone else believed it too, he would go off into the world with the belief that it is real. Now whether he keeps it..... probably not, but if he travels to a place with a Santa Clausiest community, he's less likely to not believe it. See what I mean?

Comrade_: Right, different strokes for different folks.

No, I don't get what you mean when atheism sprung from a theist world. Where presently there are fully functioning adult theist. I tend not to get into what another person believe because I see it as life a 1-shot and in that space while one is living we'll find our different contentments or "truths". To tell someone what to/ not to teach their child is going into something that shouldn't concern anyone else. I would say the same if it was a theist imposing in an atheist's parenting.

Coffrey: Well it's not like I would ban religious teaching, it's more of a "what if", what does everyone think sort of thing. And theism is on a scale. There's the ones who say they are Christian, but then do whatever they want, essentially act like there are no rules and then there are fundamentalist who radically impose on people, through legislation or violence, which is what has been happening in America for a long time. On that scale, I'm okay with the Christians who stick to themselves, but once they start telling everyone else that baby Jesus told them abortion is murder and that the Muslims are going to invade so we have to kill them first, those are the people I am against and frequently, hate is taught as a child.

iMalice: All people are born atheists, then exposed to one or more religions later in life. Ideally, children should not be indoctrinated, but allowed to make their own choices upon having reached adulthood, but in practice, they are often being coerced by parents and others until their judgment has been clouded and they are unable to regard their own religion in an objective way. They may say that it is their own decision to follow that particular religion, but in reality, they were lured into it at an early stage by well-meaning, but equally indoctrinated parents with no opportunity to say no, thank you, I want chocolate pudding instead of this fish stew you are trying to shove down my throat.

Comrade_: True, hate is taught but sad to say hate & extremist are not only in Religion but anything a man can use for his purpose.

I don't think 'atheist' might be the right word, I think everyone was born 'ignorant', meaning unaware, an atheist is aware. Just like a theist he/she assessed the situation and came to a conclusion.
I don't understand though how do you know that it was not their decision as adults?