The True Religion (Page 2)

Zanjan
Zanjan: "Why should I check that out"

Because making a bonafied statement like "in fact, they were", when you haven't any basis for that is false and just spreads injustice in another form. No, they don't have ID cards & neither do Christians - this is why so many people get away with such a ruse.

It's for this precise reason that Baha'is DO have ID cards - there's a lot of pretenders out there with the aim to garner favour and use religion as a tool to meet their own ends. They're a very destructive lot.

By your acceptance of these liars, you heap more shame on the Cause of God, creating doubt and misbelief, pushing people away from God through misinformation. This is why Christ had said "They know not what they do". But now you know.

".Im not Muslim its not for me to defend their religion."

Is it for you to place stumbling blocks in front of others? The path to truth already has too many of them.

The reality is that some Muslims are persecuted by other Muslims; for instance, the Sufis in Iran - authorities claim they're a deviant sect also Christians and Baha'is have been thrown into prison or killed for their beliefs. When a group is persecuted, they'll try to speak for themselves but the regime won't let them.

Therefore, WE, who say we have a conscience and love for our fellow man and God, must stand up and speak for them. We, the people, have the freedom and power to do that on their behalf, so why wouldn't we use it? What holds us back??

This injustice has to be righted, and it must come from the very ranks of the common people, who must educate themselves and put pressure on their authorities to respect equal rights for all. They must say "Enough" of the lip service and deception. Here's what the true religion says, right here in the text! Bring them to account.

Lately though, there's a glimmering of light amongst Muslims of Iran - a few ARE courageously speaking out, knowing they face retribution from authorities and their own community. They're aware and are calling for change, despite the risks. These are the people who get my attention - THEY'RE in the vanguard of change, but the media has a long way to go to catch up.





(Edited by Zanjan)
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Zanjan
Zanjan: Ghost: “The question to be asked is why a religion developed to cope with conditions prevalent in a backwater of the ancient world should still be considered relevant today.”

Some things are always relevant, you just have to pay attention. This is especially important when it addresses the times we’re living in.

"They can neither buy nor sell except those who have the mark of the beast" Thus, people must ask, 'Who's behaving in beastly manner'?

The time has come when we can’t turn our backs anymore; there’s no place left to run. We have to talk to each other; some communication is better than none. Check this out:


http://www.rferl.org/content/iran-obama-spiritual-adviser-joel-hunter/25413903.html

(Edited by Zanjan)
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: I read somewhere that Muhammad used his religion to unite the tribes of Arabia. All they could think of doing before he came along was biff each other. That, it seems to me, is why Islam puts so much weight behind blind obedience. Of course, the minute Muhammad was out the way the discord started again, so instead of prayer books out came the swords. It makes me think that the most important verses never made it into the Qur'an.
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: Zanjan, it's the first I've heard about Joel Hunter going anywhere. On this side of the pond the big news is all about the Muslims taking over the schools in Brum.
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Zanjan
Zanjan: It's an unfortunate thing that people in the past haven't lived up to the teachings of these religions. Yet without them, they'd have nothing to which they could aspire.

Would you prefer the government teach you their values? We've seen what happened with communism and other dictatorships, even with Monarchs that went mad. We've seen how lust for power and control always ends in the collapse of the nation.

Would you leave it to parents to be the children's sole instructors on matters of decorum and principle? Who do you think has the power to build a better character in others? Who's doing that job and what's their track record like? We're not 10 Indians to 1 Chief anymore.

After Muhammad passed, there was disagreement over succession - not the Book. Only a handful of Muslims took sword in hand to conquer the world - it's not ours to judge a Scripture by how they did it.

A good teacher has a lot of good students because those kids clamor to learn from him. The rotten apples never make it through the door. The luke warm wont get attention, only those who are trying. It's a very competitive world out there, Ghost - you've got to earn your seat in the best classrooms.



(Edited by Zanjan)
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orkanen
orkanen: Ah yes, the never changing Qur'an, with a copy in heaven, made from gold.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sana'a_manuscripts
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: I opened the paper today and guess what I found, stories about Muslim fighting Muslim. For a religion of peace Islam sure seems to foster a lot of violence.
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R E B E C C A
(Post deleted by R E B E C C A 9 years ago)
R E B E C C A
R E B E C C A: unfollowing
(Edited by R E B E C C A)
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Fernanda Oliveira
Fernanda Oliveira: Islam - Biblical analysis of the concepts of the Muslim religion

Keywords: Islam, Religion Muslim, Muhammad, Allah, pillars, Quran, Sura

Hello, Friend (player) (a)!
 
May God bless you with peace that passes all understanding.
 
In this Bible study, there are principles and doctrines of Islam, and a biblical analysis that allows counter the arguments of the Muslim religion as the disbelief that Jesus is the Messiah and that He rose again.
 
Throughout the reading, please have a Bible you prefer to check the passages quoted.
 
Pray this time that God will bless this reading bringing insight and wisdom to help you understand everything you read. If you have no words to say this prayer, I suggest you pray like this: "God, creator of all things, I ask the Lord to give me this time all wisdom so that I can understand everything you'll read because I want to know truth and live in it. Do not allow the lies and the wiles of Satan surround me, amen. "
 
I pray that you have your eyes opened by the Holy Spirit during this reading, so that your life is full of truth that there is only God, the one true, that He sent His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
Islam

The Historical Origin of Islam
 
Islam is the religion whose founder the Prophet Muhammad (570-632). This religion can also be called Religion Muslim Religion or Mohammedan.
 
Islam is a religion that proclaims the faith in one God (Allah). It is therefore monotheistic as Judaism and Christianity; and universal, because it is addressed to all people of the world. The word Islam comes from the Arabic word Islam means "submission to God". God in Arabic is Allah (Allah).
 
Historical Chronology of Islam
Around 572: Birth of Mohammed;
Around 612: Muhammad received revelation from God. For 10 years, he tries to convert the Meccans;
622: Muhammad must flee with their fans. It is the Hijra, the emigration. This date marks the founding of Islam (Islam) and Muslim calendar year 1;
632: Muhammad back to Mecca on pilgrimage, makes his farewell and dies soon after;
Between 644 and 656: It established a single, definitive version of the Qur'an;
8th Century: Arabs converted to Islam by Muhammad, conquered a vast empire stretching from India to Spain.
The Islamic Doctrine
 
Islam preaches man's total submission to the will of Allah, the One God, creator of the world. This submission is called Islam, and those who profess their faith in Allah, is dominated Muslim (Arabic word which comes from the muslin).
 
The Five Pillars of the Islamic Religion
 
The basic principles of Islam are related to the following fundamental duties of Muslims:
The profession of faith, the believer says directly: "There is no god but Allah" and "Muhammad is my prophet";
Prayer: it should be taken five times a day, on his knees with his forehead on the ground, in the direction of Mecca;
A Legal Alms: is a kind of religious tax that is paid for the benefit of the poor;
Fasting in Ramadan: During the holy month of Muslims, or Ramadan, people do not eat or drink during the day.
The Pilgrimage to Mecca: every Muslim possessions must make this pilgrimage to the holy city of Mecca, (Saudi Arabia), at least once in life. If the person is unable to perform this act, will not have any problem in having failed to do so.
The Quran
 
As evangelicals, Catholics and Jews have a holy book, Muslims also have their own holy book, the book is called the Quran (the Arabic word whose meaning is reading). The faithful always read the book written in Arabic.

The Qur'an consists of 6226 verses, divided into 114 suras (or chapters). The suras are sorted in descending order: the longest are the initial and the shorter, final. Each begins with a prayer that the faithful always repeats before any important action: "In the name of Allah, the Merciful Clemente"

To understand it one must know all of it or learn it by heart, as do Muslims since childhood. The Quran repeats insistently that there is more than one God (Allah). He is the creator of all that exists and there is nothing outside Him. The holy book further explains that Allah has sent to every people a prophet, a book, a law: Abraham and Moses after receiving the Torah; Jesus, the Gospel; Muhammad and the Qur'an. Like the Bible, the Qur'an also announces that the divine, in the end times, judge men and peoples.
 
The Sunnah regard the words, facts and gestures of the Prophet. Contrary to what many think, the Quran, not only brings guidance of a religious nature, the book contains instructions that contribute to the preservation of social order and the interests of large traders. For example, among the recommendations of the social order which we find in the Quran, we have the following:
Prohibition of the consumption of pig meat by the faithful;
Prohibition of consumption of alcoholic beverages;
Ban the practice of gambling.
Theft is punished severely.
An intriguing detail while interesting in this Qur'an is the permission of polygamy and slavery, and there is no punishment for those who practice these actions.
 
Another fundamental and important principle of Islamic Religion
One of the fundamental principles and one of the most important within that religion is based on belief in predestination. According to this principle, everything that happens in the world was previously stipulated by Allah, it is not for man to modify or attempt to modify your destination or natural course of events and facts.
 
After knowing a little about Islam, we perform an analysis of the biblical principles and arguments used by Muslims to justify their actions.
Arguments and counter-arguments

The Comforter
 
Muslims claim that Jesus prophesied in John 14:16-17 passage about the coming of Muhammad, but we will see that this is not true.

John 14:16-17. Jesus said:
"And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever;
The Spirit of truth, whom the world can not receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. "
 
Notice that Jesus said that the Father (God) would give us the Comforter to stay with us forever. And Jesus said in verse 17 who this comforter: "The Spirit of truth, whom the world can not receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him: but ye know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you." Answer: Muhammad is with us forever? Muhammad was not seen by people? Muhammad is in you?
 
Muhammad is not with us forever, he died in 632 AD.
 
The Comforter which was prophesied by Jesus is not Muhammad, but the Holy Spirit, whose coming was at Pentecost and is recorded in Acts 2:1-4.
 
Acts 2:1-4
"And good to be the day of Pentecost, they were all together in one place;
And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. "
 
Another argument used by Muslims is that the Bible has been corrupted and the word used in the original text in the passage which tells about the Comforter is not correct. Muslims claim that the Greek word for Comforter is periclytos. But when Jesus prophesied that the Comforter would come, the word used in the original Greek is not paracletos periclytos as Muslims claim, trying to justify what the Bible has been corrupted and that Jesus prophesied about Muhammad. The argument is that Muslims Peryclitos is a Greek translation of the name Ahmad or Muhammad (the Praised). In all the New Testament manuscripts dating from before AD 350 (over 24,000 manuscripts), one finds the word Paraclete.
 
The prophet prophesied
 
The faithful of Islam also use the verse in Deuteronomy 34:10 to justify the prophet foretold in Deuteronomy 18:18 could not be an Israelite, which would justify the belief that Muhammad would.
 
Deuteronomy 18:18
"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."
 
Deuteronomy 34:10-12
"And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face, not similar in all the signs and wonders which the LORD sent him to do in the land of Egypt, to Pharaoh and to all his servants and all his land. And in all that mighty hand, and in all the great terror which Moses practiced the sight of all Israel. "
 
But Muslims are confused in interpreting the term "never" as something definitive, and there was meaning used until the final writing of the book, possibly performed by Joshua. And more importantly, the prophet who was to come would be like Moses, who made all the signs and wonders ... by command of the Lord (Deuteronomy 34:11). Muhammad, according to Sura 17:90-93, did not do any signs or wonders, as did Moses and the Lord Jesus. Also this prophet should, like Moses, talk with God face to face. According to the Qur'an, Muhammad had his revelation through angels (Sura 2:97). According to the Bible, Jesus was like Moses, a direct mediator (1 Timothy 2:5, Hebrews 9:15), which communicated directly with God (John 1:18, John 12:49).
 
Donkeys and camels: misinterpretation
 
Read the verse in Isaiah 21:7.
"And when you see a car with a couple of horsemen, a car with donkeys, and camels with a car, which she carefully observe with great care."
 
Muslims believe that this was a prophecy that Jesus would come on donkeys and camels that Muhammad would come on, but there is no indication in the context that admits this interpretation. The passage is clearly speaking of the fall of Babylon and the news of his fall, which spread by various means of transport.
 
Paran near Mecca?
 
Read the verse in Habakkuk 3:3.
"God came from Teman, and the Holy Mount of Paran. His glory covered the heavens, and the earth was full of his praise."
 
Deuteronomy 33:2
"He said, The LORD came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir; shined forth from mount Paran, and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand went to them a fiery law."
 
Muslims believe that this verse refers to Mohammed, coming from Paran, and use in connection with Deuteronomy 33:2.
But Paran is not near Mecca, where Muhammad was. Moreover, this verse refers to God coming in judgment and says nothing about Muhammad. The glory and praise are for God, not Muhammad.
 
Crucifixion
 
The Koran denies that Jesus was crucified (Qur'an 4:157-158), but all the events of the last week of Jesus' life on earth as a man were predicted and are reported in detail in the Bible. Check out the tickets using a Bible you prefer.
It was said in the Bible that the Messiah would come in humility
Prophecy: Zechariah 9:9
Fulfillment of prophecy: Matthew 21:6-9
Would be sold for thirty pieces of silver
Prophecy: Zechariah 11:12
Fulfillment of prophecy: Matthew 26:15
Suffer tremendously
Prophecy: Isaiah 50:6
Fulfillment of prophecy: Matthew 26:67
Would be pierced and scourged
Prophecy: Isaiah 53:5
Fulfillment of prophecy: Matthew 27:26; John 19:34
Not speak in his own defense
Prophecy: Isaiah 53:7
Fulfillment of prophecy: Matthew 27:12-14
Would be killed
Prophecy: Isaiah 53:8
Fulfillment of prophecy: Luke 23:46
Die among thieves and intercede for the transgressors
Prophecy: Isaiah 53:12
Fulfillment of prophecy: Matthew 27:38; Luke 23:24
Would be mocked
Prophecy: Psalm 22:7-8
Fulfillment of prophecy: Matthew 27:31; Matthew 39-40
Would have his hands and feet pierced
Prophecy: Psalm 22:16
Fulfillment of prophecy: John 20:25-28
They would toss lots for his garments
Prophecy: Psalm 22:18
Fulfillment of prophecy: John 19:23-24
And not one of his bones would be broken
Prophecy: Psalm 34:20
Fulfillment of prophecy: John 19:33
Deity of Christ
 
Islam asserts that Jesus was not God, but opposing this affirmation of Islam, the Bible says that Jesus has the same essence of God.
 
John 1:1
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
 
John 10:30. Jesus said:
"I and the Father are one."
 
Do you still have doubts that Jesus is the Christ, the Only Begotten Son of God, who gave himself to forgive all our sins? Before I met him, I also had huge doubts, but do not have them anymore. Hallelujah!
 
Pray this time asking God to mark in your heart everything you read. I pray and thank God for giving him the opportunity to learn more of His Word.
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Zanjan
Zanjan: Just to correct a few things:

A Paraclete is an advocate or intercessor - it literally means a *person* called in to help. . The origin of this word is from1400 AD, late Latin and Greek languages so, you won't find it in the New Testament. Then what WILL you find?

"Comforter", "Helper" and "Spirit of Truth" - none of these in the same sentence though.

Agreeably, the Spirit of Truth is a clear reference to the Holy Spirit and no one can deny this. The Holy Spirit is ONE; holiness has no gender, spirit has no gender, and truth has no gender. Yet "maleness" is attributed to it - why? Figure of speech.

In other words, the Prophet of God is the One Who brings the Holy Spirit to mankind when it has become lost to humanity. It's the guiding force that enters the hearts to give them the strength to arise confidently; it's power is internalized so the disciples of the Faith can't fail in their speech or actions. Through it, God sends shafts of light and certitude - it's a far greater thing than mere inspiration, it awakens and transforms. In whomever it enters, it will be with that person always. Once experienced, one could never abandon such a thing!

Every true Prophet of God was the bearer of the Holy Spirit, and perfect mirror of the Spirit of Truth. As it was with the Pentacost, so it would be, again and again forever.




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Zanjan
Zanjan: Other corrections:

"Muhammad is not with us forever, he died in 632 AD."

Jesus said He wouldn't be with us forever; He died aprox 30-36 AD.

The first Deuteronomy verse is corroborated by other verses in the OT to make it clear that *their bretheren* were Jews, followers of Moses. The Promised One, Who was to be like Moses, would appear in the Jewish community. These verses were cited by Jewish Scholars to King Herod, particularly the lineage and place of birth.


All High Prophets talk to God face to face - that is, directly, because they're the Mediators between God and Man. Muhammad did so as well. Nanda, you're confusing the Advent with the Event.

With Muhammad, the Advent was the visitation in the Cave: the Angel was the *Herald* of the Faith of God, in the same way the Dove of Heaven descended on Jesus immediately after His baptism. In other words, this represented 'the plug in", basically, it was the "Blessing". Multiple angels weren't involved in either case.

Direct communication between God and Jesus and God and Muhammad was the same - they both spoke in personal voice on a daily basis, but during the moments of Revelation, they spoke with the Voice of God in a mighty language, not in their own voice.

"According to the Bible, Jesus was like Moses,"

According to the Quran, Muhammad was like Moses and Jesus both, but actually had time to successfully unite the regional tribes, a feat no one else had ever performed.

Lots of people didn't think Jesus performed any flashy stuff; they wanted their own kind of miracle but didn't get it - that's why they didn't become Christians. Same for Muhammad. I assure you, neither were a Vaudville act - the believing hearts knew the signs and wonders.

There were no cars in the bible. However, I concure that many drivers are asses and camels on the road. The smart one stays clear of them.

Nanda, the remainder of your post, I'm not inclined to address since it ran off topic, spiraling into a propaganda campaign against another religion. Sorry, but that's not true religion.

(Edited by Zanjan)
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vetigo
(Post deleted by vetigo 9 years ago)
chayim
chayim: muhamad, was not a prophet, and not a final prophet, he was a liar and sex addict, ishmaeil was not a prophet, only Isaac, Islam is based on lies to change the truth about Judaism what was a covenant from Abraham through Isaac and Israel = Jacob, and his 12 sons, the 12 tribes, and their children, Moses was from the tribe of "Levi", and the Torah was given to them ,not to the children of ishmaeil

The Torah was given to the children of Jacob = the 12 tribes, by Moses who was from the tribe of "Levi, and God was with a covenant with the children of Israel = Jacob, and everything written in the Torah by God through Moses was about the children of Israel = Jacob, and their generation from Abraham till them, that they were the covenant with God, not ishmaeil, the muslims falsed the Torah that it should be for their benefit, it's a plain fraud simple lie
(Edited by chayim)
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vetigo
vetigo: chayim: I agree.

1 John 4:1 "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world."


(Edited by vetigo)
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CoIin
CoIin: I predict something will happen today.

Do I satisfy the first of your two criteria?

If not, why not?

Thanks.
(Edited by CoIin)
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vetigo
vetigo: Proverbs 23:9  "Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words."
(Edited by vetigo)
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CoIin
CoIin: @ - "But for a real prophet the things God places into his mind to prophecy concerning come totally apart from his own mind having to perform deductions to speak it."

But now you're arguing in a circle. The whole reason for proposing your criteria was precisely to ascertain who is a real prophet. Now you simply assume it.

Once again I ask. Do I satisfy your first criterion? If not, why not?
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vetigo
(Post deleted by vetigo 9 years ago)
CoIin
CoIin: Sure.

You've given us two criteria to ascertain who counts as a real prophet. Right?

Therefore, we make no other presuppositions. Anyone satisfying your two criteria qualifies as a true prophet. And that's that - no backpedaling

I believe I satisfy the first criterion. If you agree, we can move onto the second. If you don't, please explain why.

Thanks.
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CoIin
CoIin: In other words, we must argue FROM satisfaction of criteria TO prophethood.

We must have no talk of who is a true prophet until your criteria are satisfied. In your post above you are arguing in BOTH directions.
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vetigo
(Post deleted by vetigo 9 years ago)
CoIin
CoIin: "Your reason yet fails you, CoIin"

Your asserting it to be so does not make it so.
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vetigo
(Post deleted by vetigo 9 years ago)
CoIin
CoIin: I'm using only logic. You're the one getting testy now.

And I think I know why.
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