Misconceptions about Islam (Page 2)
franklin1950: peace to you also
but our friendly exchange adds little to the fact that there is no visible muslim voice in opposition to the hateful violent actions of those that claim ownership of the muslim faith .
orkanen: Good greetings to you too, Abdul Alim Muhammad.
franklin1950: I raised your concern with a friend and Muslim once, he became awfully quiet, didn't want to discuss it.
franklin1950: to often not saying something is the safest thing to do.
perhaps the truest exponents for peace to often become martryrs .
but for a truly righteous belief. peace .
Np19: orkanen i have asked you to provide me with the verses from the quran you are referring to? once you can dig up the verses ill be happy to give you a breakdown..
Np19: and by the way just because in your country the age limit for sex is 16 what difference does that make? lets have a look:
if you had a sex with a 16 year old you'd be considered a kiddy fiddler in the phillipines, afganistan, austrailia, Barbados, bhutan, burundi, cameroon, costa rica, dominican republic, egypt, el salvador, Eritrea , gabon, grenada, guatemala, haiti, iraq, Kazakhstan, Kenya , malta, panama, rawanda, tanzania, thiland, tunisia, turkey , uganda, Vietnam, Arizona(usa), cali, idaho, THATS ALOT OF COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD THAT ADULTS WHO ARE ENGAGED IN SEXUAL ACTIVITY WITH A 16 YEAR OLD(LEGALLY BY YOUR COUNTRIES STANDARDS, WOULD BE CONSIDERD A PAEDOPHILE. even by afganistan law youd be considered a paedo.
just because in your country the legal age for sex etc is 16 that dont mean that everyone else is wrong.
lets have a look at the countries that allow marrige and sex under the age of 16 shall we... so by your standards are countries of padeophiles.
Albania, American Samoa,Angola(12!!), Argentina(13), austria, Bolivia, brazil, bulgaria, Burkina Faso, chile, china, colombia, Cote D'Ivoire, croatia, cyprus, Czech Republic,denmark, Ecuador, Estonia, Faroe Islands, france, French Guiana, germany, greece, greenland, Guadelope, Guinea, Honduras, Hungary, iceland, india, israel, italy, latvia, lithuania, Liechtenstein, Martinique, Mauritius, mexico(12), Moldova, monaco, Montenegro, Morocco, Nigeria, Paraquay, peru, portugal,Puerto Rico,Romania,San Marino, serbia, slovakia,St. Kitts and Nevis
BY YOUR STANDARDS THERES ALOT OF COUNTRIES THAT ALLOW UNDERAGE SEX BY YOUR STANDARDS!!! WOW HOW MANY OF THESE ARE MUSLIM COUNTRIES??/? so the point you was trying to make was a silly one. theres different standards and ages in this world...
P.S BRING ME THE EXCAT VERSES.. BRING YOUR PROOF SO WE CAN DISCUSS YOUR MISCONCEPTIONS!!
Np19: http://www.avert.org/age-of-consent.htm REFERNCE FOR THE ABOVE IF ANYONE WANTS TO CHECK IT OUT...
Np19: Islam allowed marriage at puberty in pre-modern times, which caused psychological harm because puberty was too young to give informed consent”.
The fact is that even until the 18th century, reaching puberty meant becoming an “adult”, in terms of maturity, behavior and responsibility, as stated in the Journal of Social History, Online Etymology Dictionary, Journal of Marriage and the Family, and numerous academic references.
Children faced the daily struggle for physical and economic survival, and while this type of “environmental stress” actually causes puberty at a younger age,it is proven to have also speeded psychological maturity.This maturity helped in coping with the responsibilities of early marriage and childbearing.
These responsibilities were indeed valued by society, including the most important founding father of the United States,Benjamin Franklin.
It was only in the industrial mid-18th century that psychological maturity started to delay, due to side effects that are proven to delay maturity such as: increasing comforts of life, diminished parental guidance, and that “children remained children longer to complete their education”.
It is therefore ridiculous to “demand late marriage in pre-modern society on the pretense of psychological harm” as it would have wiped out the human race for reasons that only arise for immature adolescents today.
Since psychological maturity and adulthood were reached at puberty in pre-modern times, it is also naive to slander early marriage in history as:
Child sexual abuse: "the engagement of a child in sexual activities for which the child is developmentally unprepared and cannot give informed consent”
Pedophilia: the sexual attraction towards pre-pubescent children.
As a result, early procreation was psychologically appropriate and even a valued benefit to society.
Np19: “Islam allows marriage at puberty in modern times, which causes sexual and psychological harm”.????
First of all, it is untrue that Islamic age of consent is lower in modern times compared to other laws. For example, the US and other countries currently allow marriage well under the age of 16 with pregnancy, or parental or court approval. In contrast, 17 Islamic countries have age of consent ranging from 15 to 18 years with parental consent, which was raised specifically as an implementation of Islamic Law.
Np19: it is untrue that Islamic marital law results in more harm in modern times compared to other laws. In fact, the Islamic requirement of marriage provides to every sexual relationship and its potential offspring the benefits of faithfulness, emotional support, mutual trust, commitment, parental guidance and wide social support. In addition, with a slightly lower average age of marriage, Islamic countries benefit from the early marriage mentality, which is proven to result in psychological maturity at a relatively younger age
On the other hand, non-Islamic societies permit and condone sexual activities years before psychological maturity and the legal age of marriage, which causes devastating sexual harm to adolescents, such as the following current US statistics:
50% of child sexual abuse offenders are adolescents themselves, committing sexual abuse, child pornography, child prostitution and incest, using deception, force or coercion.
35% of all 17 year olds have been sexually abused.
12% of all 14 year olds have had sex “involuntarily”.
“Half of all new HIV infections occur among adolescents”.
70% of 13 year olds who had sex said it was “against their will”.
7% of 12 year olds have had sex.
90% of prostitutes were victims of child sexual abuse.
“The average age at which girls first become victims of prostitution is 12-14”.
Sexually active teenagers are 3 to 8 times as likely to attempt suicide.
76% of unplanned teen mothers end up on welfare
Every year in the world’s richest countries, there are 1.25 million teen pregnancies and 500,000 teen abortions.
Countries that choose legalized prostitution as their solution, like Germany, the Netherlands, Sweden and Denmark, end up with increased rates of child prostitution and sex trafficking, child pornography, incest,and even legal “beastiality”, sex with animals.
In modern times, the age of puberty has fallen below the age of psychological maturity, sexual values have greatly degraded,and the late marriage mentality is delaying psychological maturity even further.These 3 trends will continue to increase the above devastating sexual harm to adolescents in non-Islamic countries.
While extremely rare cases of marriage at puberty in Afghanistan’s countryside are exploited to attack all Muslims, it must be noted that even in Islamic countries that have not yet officially raised the minimum age of consent, they have done so in practice. Otherwise Islam’s critics would have publicized more than just a few cases from some isolated tent villages. More importantly, even such Islamic countries do not have any of the sexual atrocities that are documented at alarmingly high ratios in the same countries attacking Islam.
As a result, Islam’s flexible marital law provides far better protection than contemporary laws by prohibiting sexual activities prior to psychological maturity and then marriage.
Np19: Islam responsibly channels sexual instincts through marriage, with the prior condition of psychological maturity. And contrary to claims of improved morality, non-Islamic laws have alarmingly driven child sexual abuse and psychological harm to epidemic proportions.
Therefore, when such attacks against Islam are analyzed impartially, they reveal the perfect applicability of Islam’s solution from the 7th century until today, and the utter failure of any other system to provide any protection whatsoever to society’s youth. At best, these attacks are also found to be irresponsibly superficial due to the seriousness of this issue.
Np19: when you talk about something have knowledge on the subject matter. really speaking besides recycled rubbish you heard on the televison you havent said anything useful or worth debating. please when you are making an accusation please provide the proofs and reference the quotes so we can see where you are getting the information from.
Np19: ok first of all can you tell me where i have said that its ok??? im sure you are able to read and understand what your reading.... im telling you that history bares witness to the fact that in them days it was normal and the maturity age was lower than it is today. i think you have to read what i have wrote.
Please show me the youtube video that i have posted on this subject as you have stated in point 5
shouting? no i have used sarcasm but have not shouted? how did you come to this conclusion?
sometimes certain subject matters warrant typing or pasting large amounts of words so that justice may be done to the subject matter, if you are not able to concentrate or digest the information then this is an issue within you,
i have not changed the topic infact what i have done is to show you that historically it was quite normal throughout the world to marry women at young ages. in this day and age it is not and and i agree that it is not.
one bar rather than refuting what i typed and pasted you have just given a reply which shows u have no answer, seems like your avoiding the subject by going on a rant about what i presented. READ AND REFUTE WHAT I HAVE PASTED AND TYPED PLEASE.
and rather than making assumptions show me where i have implied that it's ok for Muslim men to have intercourse with young children because some countries have a slightly younger age of consent than 16?
Perdurabo: 'Attempting to bypass a flaw of Islam through claiming that some non-muslims commit a similar flaw.'
@playboy Most theists are guilty of this when debating. It usually happens because they are religiously obliged to defend the indefensible.
Kown as an ad hominem the poster hasn't in anyway answered the argument and doesnt make the argument any less credible from a logical standpoint.
'My father told me to stop smoking, but he smokes, so it must be OK'
Mohammad was 49 years old when he asked his best friend for permission to marry Aisha, his 6 year old daughter. 2 or 3 years later he consummated the marriage.
Allah did not condemn this action in the past and therefore in the eyes of Allah it must still be acceptable, because as we all know there is no law greater than Allah's. Right?
All your other arguments are all in a similar vein and not worth addressing.
Copy and pasting is part of Islamic tradition. The majority of muslims are non-arabic speakers, yet many commit huge swathes of the Quran to memory without understanding what they are memorising. Many muslims are guilty of that in this forum too. Copy and pasting huge swathes of text from pro-islamic websites and not even completely understanding what they are posting.
Here is a verse that shows the ignorant, primitive, flawed thinking behind the Quran -
"And if you are in doubt about those of your women who have despaired of menstruation, (you should know that) their waiting period is three months, and the same applies to those who have not menstruated as yet..." Quran 65:4, Maududi translation
From a medical perspective having sex with pre-menstrual, pre-pubescent girls is highly dangerous. Why didnt Allah realise this?
Also your argument about morality in the west doesnt stand. Muslims too are guilty of some of the worst crimes in history. Genocide and slavery being the too biggest that come to mind. Majority of Arabs follow the Islamic faith yet still participated the largest slave trading markets in history.
'Historians estimate that between 10 and 18 million Africans were enslaved by Arab slave traders and taken across the Red Sea, Indian Ocean, and Sahara desert between 650 and 1900.'
Arabs also enslaved my people, for which im still waiting for an apology.
'Arabs also enslaved substantial numbers of Europeans. According to Robert Davis between 1 million and 1.25 million Europeans were captured by Barbary corsairs, who were vassals of the Ottoman Empire, and sold as slaves between the 16th and 19th centuries'
What the Quran really Says - Ibn Warraq
White Gold by Giles milton
Perdurabo: 'sometimes certain subject matters warrant typing or pasting large amounts of words so that justice may be done to the subject matter, if you are not able to concentrate or digest the information then this is an issue within you'
No. This is called plagiarism.
And by copying huge amounts of unedited text from other sources just shows that u have the inability to think for yourself.
Perdurabo: 'no we revere and respect the quran and no we dont idolise or worship the quran??'
Do i have to unquestionably respect it too?
Although i am against book burning, and anybody who chooses to burn books is a moronic cretin. However if i choose to burn any book including the Quran, i should still have the right to do so without having to bear any threats of violence. Afterall, the Quran, like any other book is an object made from paper.
Np19: why type something that i have at my disposal.. this topic is going off subject matter... i can see how you are cleverly diverting subject matters.
Perdurabo: BAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Thats some funny shit right there!
I think that must be muslim rebuttal number 7. After this list of 6 others i can think of, 'youve taken it out of context, you cant understand the Quran because you dont speak Arabic, and then if you show sources for ur evidence its all 'false & lies', translation is incorrect, reading with a closed mind', attack other religions etc etc'
Np19: please bring me the quranic verses and evidences. and you guys obviously have no answer. until you provide me with evidences for what you are claiming then this conversation is dead.
Perdurabo: Lectures others about the decaying of moral values in the west but chooses a username after a pornographic magazine ' Playboy'
playboy yes thats me ask your sixteen year old sister who i can legally sleep with about playboy highlife u fool.... You guys are going on a rant about what i have pasted but cannot refute!!! who is the one diverting or not answering... you sound stupid
One Bar: Us? Us diverting subject matters? Us? Not you?
one bar your name suits your imput.. you only have one pathetic line for anything i say. you seem to lack the ability to use your brain.
i find it embarassing to myslef that im even taking the time to type back. you are not saying anything worth replying to.
Np19: Perdurabo: 'sometimes certain subject matters warrant typing or pasting large amounts of words so that justice may be done to the subject matter, if you are not able to concentrate or digest the information then this is an issue within you'
No. This is called plagiarism.
And by copying huge amounts of unedited text from other sources just shows that u have the inability to think for yourself.
no mate if this is the case then almost 90% of information online is plagarism!! you have no answer to what i pasted nor do u have any strong way of refuting anything, you sound so pathetic. if you guys wish to discuss thats fine ill be happy to reply, but so far it seems like im discussing with individuals who lack any accademic credntials.
Np19: this blog is dead, when i find something worth replying to i will do, in the meantime ill let you little islamaphobic hilly billys rant amongst yourself.
im still waiting for proofs and im still waiting for you to refute wht i have posted so far.