Do athiests actually ask what is truth? Or I refuse to believe your truth? (Page 5)

Geoff: ewarner - your inability to see how simply such evolutionary processes as those that gave rise to benign co-dependency between species demonstrates that you actually don't understand evolution at its most fundamental levels.

deuce916: ewarner1, ewarner1, ewarner1, you're such a naughty boy. Mentally teasing atheists with you lack of understanding & judgement.

ewarner1: Boy you guys sure are crabby today! The biggest surprise for me in this whole experience has been how much anger I sense, and as Yoda said, anger is the path to the dark side! Bored Beyond Belief, if you actually want to be a phycoligist you need to start by examining yourself, why so much anger?

In regards to my questions, you did not answer them, how come?

Do you believe that some actions, ie sexual assualt of children are wrong, regardless of culture, reagardless of what a person thinks? In other words you believe that morality is not realitive, that some things are right, and some wrong?

I am glad you are so willing to speak for me regarding my views on human life, what are yours? Does human life have value? And if so why?

ewarner1: Alcoholis Annonomous is the most sucessful organization for helping people with alcohol addiction, and as I am sure you know, it requires dependence on a higher power. You may have been strong enough to give it up without that, I was not, and neither are millions of others. My addictions were simply too strong for me. Your athiesm could not help me. Like I said there are millions of us like me.

ewarner1: Stuck in the sixities, try this one, it is a very scientific kind of study, it was a penny I must be confusing it with something else I read.

http://selfconciousmind.comAwareStudyLetter.pdf

Geoff: So, your argument is: God exists because you don't have the willpower to resist alcohol without him?

Hardly objective proof.

CoIin:
Dastardly : Without God, all is permitted. Relativism means anything goes.
Muttley: So how can we know what is absolutely "right" and "wrong" then?
Dastardly: "Right" is that which is permitted by God. "Wrong" is that which God prohibits.
Muttley: OK. But what if God declared sexual assualt of children to be pious.
Dastardly: Don't be silly.
Muttley: Pardon?
Dastardly: God would never tell us to do that.
Muttley: Well, consider it a thought experiment. Why would He never tell us to do that?
Dastardly: Because it's wrong.
Muttley:

Perdurabo: So lets all reach for our comfort blankets and wrap ourselves in the warm, tingly feeling of ignorance.

StuckInTheSixties:

BBB says:
"It's the THOUGHT of a God that helped him through his alcoholism, nothing more. It's sort of like kids adjusting their behaviour to appease Santa Clause."

No, that's really not fair.

A little kid learning that picking on his little sister and not using the wall for crayons isn't the same as addiction.

Much as I have no use for the "God" stuff incorporated into many addiction treatment programs, such as the classic "12 Step" program, I'd be lying if I said I didn't appreciate the fact that those programs often succeed where every other attempt has failed. Perhaps using God as the means to overcome addiction is purely a delusion, but if it can save someone from addiction, give them back some semblance of a normal life, then they're better off with it.

Who's better off? An atheist whose life is all fucked up from addiction, or someone with faith whose life isn't?

BBB, I'm basically on your side of this argument. ewarner1 is pretty deluded with his religious views, but that Santa Claus insult wasn't fair.

I calls 'em like I sees 'em.

Perdurabo: “Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster by your side, kid.”

StuckInTheSixties:

"How are they not similar?"

Fer Kee-rists sake ...

Um ... well, lemme see ...

One can lead to having your crayons taken away ...

The other can lead to things like, well, you know ... fucking your life up on a grand scale because your a FUCKING ADDICT, and to a great degree, fucking up the lives of anyone that cares about you to, not to mention total strangers, become a huge burden to society, imprisonment, hepatitis C, AIDS, cirrhosis of the liver, prostitution, negligent vehicular homicide, death by overdose, death by stroke, death by AIDS, death by choking on your own vomit ...

Shall I go on?

I suppose you could say that the SCALE isn't similar.

Sheesh ... the lengths some people will go to to hang onto a stupid argument ...

Geoff: But hang on; the whole basis of this topic is, "Do athiests actually ask what is truth? Or I refuse to believe your truth?"

ewarner has admitted that his faith is entirely based on personal reasons, and his proof of the existence of God is entirely based on his need to exculpate himself from taking responsibility for himself.

And I think that BoredBeyondBelief is on the money with the parallels between Santa and God. Santa only brings gifts to good children, punishing those who misbehave with coal (at least he did in my day). God rewards those who behave with heaven, and punishes those who are bad with hell. This is social engineering at its based level, appealing to fear, guilt, and greed.

And yes, the scale is markedly different, but the basis for the lie is the same. To make bad people (be they criminals, addicts, or whatever perceived sins they may have) good, just as it is to encourage good behaviour in the child.

Saying that you need God to be a good person is, in my opinion, just another way of admitting to being a scared bad person.

Perdurabo: Surely someone who advocates genocide, ethnic cleansing, mass-murder (ie God) is not a very good moral compass at all.

NightFlyer: Particularly since it's no longer a secret that the moral values of modern Judaism, Christianity and Islam basically stem from pagan Eastern, Egyptian (10 commandments) and Greek originals.

StuckInTheSixties:

I'm not arguing that a belief in God is any more or less than a belief in Santa Claus. I've never said that.

I was reacting to this absurd question by BBB:

" 'A little kid learning that picking on his little sister and not using the wall for crayons isn't the same as addiction.' "

How are they not similar?

It's an absurdly hyperbolic comparison. Like comparing the swatting of a fly to committing genocide. They're both violent acts.

CoIin: Strong opinions suck. After one commits oneself to a stance, egos get in the way. Who really cares as long as no one gets hurt. Here's a slushy to all. Merry Xmas.

CoIin: Truth? C'mon folks. Remember who we are and where we are. The next round is on me.

Perdurabo: Do atheists dream of electric sheep?

CoIin: Do insomniac sheep count people?