DID JESUS CLAIM DIVINITY?

Rena787: The faith foundations of two of the world’s major religions, Islam and Christianity revolve around this question. Is Jesus God? To analyze this in detail in the light of the scriptures, we must first understand who is God? How do we define this term?
Definition or essential attributes of God
• Unique and one and only
• Ever-Living
• Creator of all.
• Independent of creation.
• Does not have any attributes similar to that of any of His creation.

If you examine closely, a being lacking anyone or even one of the above qualities is not God. He will definitely resemble any of His creations.
Let us analyze in the light of the scriptures, what is said regarding Jesus(pbuh).Allah(SWT) says in the Quran in surah Maryam verse 88

They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!"
Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous!
At it the skies are ready to burst, the earth to split asunder, and the mountains to fall down in utter ruin,

Allah(SWT) clearly states that it is not befitting for Him to beget a son. This is something ungodly .The need for a son could be attributed to animals and man. They are in need of a successor. Desires and aspirations are inherent in human beings and animals for offspring. This is entirely, an attribute of the creation. Moreover we must understand begetting is an animal act and even shameful for humans to commit, God almighty is the Most high and we can never attribute it to him.

If we are to analyze, the biblical teachings about the divinity of Christ, we would find a number of contradictions. Jesus(pbuh) does not make a single unequivocal statement in the bible where He says that he is God or asks his people to worship him. Moreover, there are a number of verses in the bible which irrefutably state Jesus to be the contrary.
1. Gospel Of Matthew 28 verse 18-20:
18.And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
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19. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
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20. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.


Jesus claims that all power is given unto him, explicitly saying that he does not by any means have authority of his own and is dependant. This power is not inherent or self-sustained. This clearly refutes, the bible preachers theology. Nevertheless he does not teach them to ‘worship him’ or that he is God or ‘begotten son of God’ but instead orders them to keep up whatever he had commanded. He intends to say that all authority is given to him in terms of judgment and teaching. In other words, he is a messenger commanding on the authority of God, since God gave him this authority it prevails over all.
2. Gospel of John chapter 17 verse 1-6
These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
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As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Rena787: I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

Jesus(pbuh) is glorifying God and acknowledges his covenant with the Only true God. He prays for his people and humbles himself after completion of his obligation towards God.This is a symbol of servitude and submission towards the Almighty and not a claim of divinity in the least bit. The term ‘son of God’ in Hebrew was a common terminology for addressing all people who were righteous and God-fearing. God says in the New testament in Romans chapter 8 verse 14 :
‘For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.’
3. Revelations 1:8-10
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
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9. I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ
10. I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
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The connotation ‘first and the last’ is taken by biblical preachers as definition of God. This would be applicable to God alone, if taken literally. In the case of Jesus(pbuh), he had a beginning in the stable, he was born, had a beginning of existence, he lived like any of us as a man and had an apparent end also. Jesus(pbuh) intended to declare that his judgment and word is final, the first and the last. He was a messenger from God and his teachings were words of God to be followed by men. God had given authority, his word was final nothing could be abrogated from it or added to it, neither did any man have the authority to alter his teachings nor was the word of any man’s authority accepted by God.
4.Gospel of John chapter 14 verse 28
He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
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25. These things have I spoken unto you, being [yet] present with you.
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26. But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
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27. Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
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28. Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
Jesus(pbuh) speaks not on his own account and declares that his father is greater then himself, meaning he has all authority. This remark is significant enough to rule out any allegations whatsoever that Jesus(pbuh) claimed divinity. God would never have tto be submissive or obedient to anyone, nor would he be obliged to utter the words of a superior being. The concept of Jesus(pbuh) being the son of God, sharing divinity with Him would be baseless.
5.Gospel of Mark chapter 13 verse32
32. But of that day and [that] hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father
The knowledge of the hour was not even with Jesus(pbuh),showing that he did not even posses the knowledge of the hour,clearly showing he had no divine power. Moreover this clearly disproves the concept of trinity, implying that the father and son in the bible are not the same persons, but are three different persons hence they cannot be called as one god.

SPIRIT-ONE: none of what you said is true IMO ,I know Matthew and Mark and the other NEW TESTAMENT prophets may be real ,but the scriptures 'supposedly' written by them are suspect at best ,and contain very little if any ,proof of anything ,that is why I don't embrace GOD WORSHIPING RELIGIONS ,they all worship paper gods [elohim]and one flock is just as confused as the others

satangel: @ Rena787

The answer to your question is a clear NO!

For someone to claim divinity (in the later Christian meaning of the word) at the time of Jesus would have been so utterly blasphemous that whoever did such an outrageous thing would have been stoned to death on the spot. Thus, it is obvious that he must have been defied at a later point and the main force behind this effort was Paul.

duncan123: i thought jesus had managed to have on tap the skills which other
preachers had just managed to do, eg the feeding the forty thou and water in to wine- even if he said it was hard work.

even their idear of main god was already accepted.

why did they feel that there was something planing what they could do for them? i mean the place was empty they could have gone anywhere.

whats the problem with there being two religions?

Malobear: Rena I have not known any christain refer to Jesus as god. I'm not saying that some don't. But how we were taught on the Indian reservation there is only one creator,Christian or Indian beliefs.

oh_good_laughs: Rena post is from "http://hubpages.com/hub/Did-Jesuspbuh-Claim-divinity"..


Nice input Malo, you have a positive, honest approach.

Faith & proof: risen

I do not understand why you post the link, don't you have better way to respond to this? I mean this is childish

Malobear: Faith & proof, the question Rena was good question. I have seen posts here and on other sites and it seems many Muslims think Christians think of Jesus as God and thats simply untrue. Most tribes of North America know that there is only one creator and its in the teachings and stories told by the storytellers of these tribes.

oh_good_laughs: Faith and Proof, my purpose for posting the link was to demonstrate that a good portion of the Muslims (atleast on wire) allow others to do their thinking for them.

StuckInTheSixties: Is risen's posting of a link any more "childish" than Rena copy/pasting ad nauseum all over this forum?

I think not.

Look at all the Rena posts. Is there even one that isn't something copy/pasted?

I think not.

Rena apparently hasn't a single original thought in her head.

Rena787: Let me defend myself

my English isn't good so it's easy for me to cut and paste some topics here
It just i know it in Arabic but sometimes i say to myself if i translated it you may get it wrong

that's why

StuckInTheSixties: The English you just utilized was clear, and easily understood. I actually read that post. I NEVER read that stuff you copy and paste.

Malobear: Rena,I only had to read the first sentance and question "Is Jesus God" The answer is no.No real Christian will tell you Jesus is God that I know of. You call Muhammad the messenger and thats exactly what the Christians refer to about Jesus.In Islam,you call the creator Allah. In Christanty it is God. In Native American Indians,the tribes call the creator different names because of the different langauges. In the tribe of my ancestors the creator is called "Maheo" and there is many,many names around the world that cultures,langauges refer to as the creator.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_God
In this you can clearly see the many names used in Athanasius Kircher's Oedipus Aegyptiacus

Rena787: I'm saying that only few christians say that Jesus is God not all the christians

oh_good_laughs: Whether the Bible depicts Jesus as God is discovered by the individual who takes time and studies the Bible, not for those looking for quick internet searches.

But, in a concrete light, Jesus is a historical figure. It is historically probable that Jesus lived and gathered large crowds of people wherever he went. It is historically probable that Jesus was a 'wonder worker' to say the least. It is also historically probable that Jesus died on a cross under the authority of Pontius Pilate, the Roman overseer.

Now, as a Christian, faith is applied at the resurrection of Christ, because this is beyond the limits of history. But I believe Christ is alive, and i believe he is returning, and it may be soon.

Faith & proof: I also believe Christ is alive, and i believe he is returning, and it may be soon, but if i don't then i'm not a muslim and i think i can beat the christians in my love for Jesus ( peace be upon him ).

oh_good_laughs: Faith, there is a difference here.

A Christian is saved only by the perfect bloodshed of Jesus' sacrifice on the cross. God demonstrates his love for us on that cross, where one who knew no sin, became sin for us. This is God's love.

Now some centuries later, the Quran comes around and guides people away from the salvation of Christ. The Quran teaches Muslims not to believe in the perfect sacrifice, not to accept this gift from God, but rather believe it to be some sort of an illusion. The guarantee of forgiveness has been altered by the Quran so the Muslims won't accept it.


But Faith, please remember, God loves you.

Faith & proof: But Faith, please remember, God loves you.

Instead of using this way to convert people, prove me you're right

Actually, you should probably watch this

http://www.wireclub.com/Forums/ViewTopic.aspx?ForumId=1018684&ParentId=1021035&Replied=2

oh_good_laughs: Faith, if you disagree with the crucifixion of Christ, you are disagreeing with history, not me.

This video you suggest Faith, only supports my earlier thoughts, your allowing others to do your thinking for you.

Faith & proof: Actually, i don't blindly choose what i believe and i guess i read about your faith more than you do .

Also, i think there was a christian in that video so don't tell me i let others ( meaning muslims ) to do my thinking and if there any convincing proof about the crucifixion of Christ, he could convince me .

oh_good_laughs: Faith, you watch one show, and in your opinion, it's settled..

BTW, i don't sit and watch these youtube videos many Muslims like to post, if something is meaningful inside them, learn it, then bring it up.. I think you know very, very little about Christianity, the majority of your knowledge is Muslim propaganda and slander against it.

And to argue against the crucifixion of Christ, is to argue with history, not me.

Faith & proof: conclusion, the reason why christians believe this whole idea about crucifixion, they do not want to be judged and they would not like to consider one day they will have to answer for their actions.

Koko_Krunch: im claiming to be divine.

Problem?

IamEggman: Maybe religious people should spend more time answering for actions carried out in the name of their religion in this life.
If nothing else it would cut back on the spamming.

oh_good_laughs: Faith, i have heard that reply a couple of times before from people of Islam. But history is contrary to these opinions, the crucifixion is history, not a belief.