heaven or hell.....what do you believe????? (Page 2) dale99: Sure there is a heaven to gain and a hell to shun, but happiness is only achieved through knowing God through his revelation to man {his word} the truth will set you free. Remember that God is not an entity as mortal men and his ways are so far above our ways, yet we tend to think of him as a human man. When we see God in the right way then we will understand hell better. No one objects to heaven. But hell is reserved for those who reject God. dale99: Sure Verle. Heaven is the reward of the saved. Hell is everlasting torments to those who reject God and his Christ. We have some problems in life but no comparison to the hell to come. Zanjan: Heaven is nearness to God - nothing less will do for His lovers. This is paradise. If you can't see it, you can't even begin to approach it. Therefore, the ability to see is a gift which comes only by His mercy and beneficence. So, this comes first. By this spiritual sight, the lovers are drawn to His Beauty. The nearer to God, the more intoxicating it is to be in His presence. For them, Hell is to earn His displeasure......it's distance from God. For those who don't know God, or who have denied Him, hell is anguish, darkness, fear and utter helplessness. For them, heaven may only be icecream. There's no need to wait for either until we die. (Edited by Zanjan) Verle: Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong" (II Cor. 12:10). WHAT? Is Paul crazy? "For when I am WEAK, then am I STRONG?" Yes, Paul is crazy; crazy like a fox! When we think that we are strong, then we are truly weak. But when we KNOW THAT WE ARE WEAK, then God can make us strong. Listen how perfectly the truly great apostles understood these marvelous truths of God: "Humble yourselves [admit your weakness] in the sight of the Lord, and He shall lift you up" (James 4:10) "Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that He may exalt you in due time" (I Pet. 5:6). Peter is one of my favorites. He likes to add "details." He adds to James statement by saying, "in due time." Yes, God will "lift you up," but not always today or tomorrow, but for sure, "in due time." Zanjan: Well, 'humbleness", to me, means 'respect'. God knows what your weaknesses are so there's no need to admit them to Him. People can't know what their weaknesses are until they're in difficult or tempting situations. - these pressures, pains and trials are the only way for us to measure our own endurance. Without them, we have no idea what or where to strengthen and improve by how much. Everybody has and needs these tests, including religious God-lovers so this has nothing to do with what your religion is. If a person comes through admirably, then they're a role model. We've all said "I'd NEVER do that", and meant it. Well, surprise surprise.........the day comes and we find ourselves eating our words. Eventually, one learns never to say never, which is a type of conditioning - that is, realizing, from experience, one is not in sole control of everything; there are forces driving us we don't understand. We've all had certain difficulties repeat; it's not that we didn't try to fix the problems......it's that we tried to do it on our own, thinking we knew how. Well, if we knew, we wouldn't have been in that situation in the first place, right? And you know what? Most everyone will try every solution out there before they go to God for help. It's not until there's nothing left, nothing works, and they're desperate to end the misery and mystery that they finally bow their heads and bend their knee, saying "Ok, God, it's your turn". That's the last resort - appealing to your Creator, the one who knows you better than yourself. Some have to learn respect the hard way. Zanjan: As for the confused: "They plotted and God plotted, but God is the best of plotters" The Quran: Surah Âl 'Imran (3:54) Zanjan: Historians can't change the past either.........they can only research what contemporaries of the period have written and put those writings together in one place, listing their sources. The same is true for documenting current history, unless they were an eyewitness themselves. In the old world tradition, the conqueror got to write the history - their official version of events took the stage while 'in appropriate' accounts were covered up, suppressed and often dismissed. In the new world order, that's no longer true. Man fights back through the media. Those who didn't live in the day have no business adjusting historical documents or material evidence. Strong science is necessary to verify new evidence in support of collective accounts but it can never deny an historical event happened, it can only explain the scientific grounding for it. That's not the field of historians. Opinion on the evidence isn't history. ghostgeek: If Heaven and Hell exist why hasn't someone provided the guided tour? Shouldn't God and the Devil show us around, just to prove that these places exist. How hard could it be, given their limitless power? BigBadWolfe: No guided tour?.Because God and the devil don't exist.Heaven and hell don't exist.Talk to your travel agent and visit a REAL tourist attraction,that actually exists!!. CoIin: @ - "If Heaven and Hell exist why hasn't someone provided the guided tour? " It's been done. See Dante's "Divine Comedy" ghostgeek: Colin, I have a copy of the Divine Comedy, with nice illustrations by Dore. It is like having a brochure detailing the tour but it is not the tour itself. It is like the difference between having a leaflet extolling a fine wine and actually sampling the wine itself. CoIin: In that case, I'd recommend a tour of the Maldives followed by a trip to Golmud, Qinghai province, China Verle: "Rain drops keep falling on my head"remember that song?-outside I here my newfew cry'n being stricken by his sister of something, God work's through the children(God works in mysterious ways)(Gods thinking is not your thinking) to teach man(mans wisdom is foolish. 1st Cor.3:19)Wolf all the understanding ,knowledge wisdom didn't come from nothing! (Post deleted by Verle ) Verle: Which leads me to the reason why God pour's out his spirit on to the flesh, Acts .Acts 2:17And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: | Religion Chat Room 30 People Chatting Similar Conversations |