God and morality (Page 3)

ghostgeek: Always paid by the spilling of blood.

ghostgeek: Given his legacy, Moses must be judged the most evil man in history.

Zanjan: A legacy is an inheritance, not always a full one. They both left a book to the world - Hitler left one, Moses left 5 - which of these has found its way to more abodes?

You might have found a reason to diss Moses had you lived in His day but, He's had a chance to prove Himself even to the most stubborn and ignorant, who couldn't begin to achieve an iota of what He did. By the way, I've met Christians who've slammed Moses just like you have.

According to your theory, the other Prophets had nothing to do with anything.
Are you angry that humans exist? Or just ticked that you got no inheritance?

The devil deceives only the wicked.

Zanjan: You've reminded me of my parents (the unbelievers) and what they left behind.

Our mother didn't have a Will but she left her neurosis to two of the children (the X pair) and her quick eye to the other two ( the O pair). Our dad, on the other hand, cleverly left a Will, giving all the children cash, equally divided, saying "share and share alike".

They say you can't control your legacy once you've passed it on but that isn't exactly true. You can think ahead and roll the ball in a direction. I think our parents knew us very well.

The "X pair" conspired together, stealing 80% of the cash inheritance from the "O pair". BUT, there are some things you can't steal or buy; it seems to me that the "X pair" got the useless stuff while the "O pair" got the best, that which endured.

This is what happens in religion too; one can't take from another their rightful place nor can one give another the choicest of gifts. God, alone, has this power and He does what He chooses.

davejackson1960: Moses could not possibly have written Genesis, Moses didn't even come into the picture until the Pharoah's daughter found him floating in the Nile in the book of Exodus, which come along according to biblical dating about 900 some odd years later, Moses gets the credit because of ignorance, and of course biblical hypothesis, whatever the difference may be.

ghostgeek: Let's see. Moses was a liar, a thief and a murderer, at least according to the Bible. Who would trust the word of such a man? Not me, clearly.

ghostgeek: The five books of Moses were not written by Moses, not that they say they were.

davejackson1960: i know but moses gets the credit, the entire bible is nothing more than a lot of stories written by uneducated individuals attempting to answer questions than mankind still cant answer.

ghostgeek: And no, the other prophets, whoever they might be, were deluded at best and out and out liars at worse. If you cannot believe the word of Moses, you certainly cannot put any credence in the word of anybody who followed him.

ghostgeek: Exodus was written by somebody who had an intimate knowledge of Egypt, the Sinai and Saudi Arabia. Either he had journeyed through those lands himself, or he had read a lot of travel literature.

davejackson1960: but Moses knew nothing about creation of man, nor did whoever wrote Genesis.

ghostgeek: Genesis, Exodus and the other stories of the Bible, reflect the knowledge of the people alive at the time they were written. They wouldn't have had any inkling of how the world was formed. So what you read is a pre-scientific conception of the origin of everything. Not knowing better, they impute it all to the actions of some deity. Quite logical, given the level of ignorance at that time.

ghostgeek: Reading Exodus, it is clear that Moses was an ingenue. He didn't even know about delegating authority until informed about doing so by his father-in-law. Certainly not the sort of thing you would expect someone brought up in a palace to be ignorant of.

ghostgeek: We must therefore conclude that Moses made it up about being found in a basket by Pharaoh's daughter.

ghostgeek: Just one of the many lies that he told.

Zanjan: "Moses could not possibly have written Genesis"

That's partly true. Part of it was a compilation of stories and truths carried over from previous religions, which Moses clarified/corrected in places. This has been proven. Part of it was Moses' own story, which seems to be dictated to a third party, who recorded it during the course of His lifetime - would have been approved by Moses because, unlike Jesus, He had time on His side.

Another part lists kings that lived after He'd passed away - this was an addition by whomever was compiling the writings and traditions and likely the reason Genesis has two versions. This makes sense if the person doing the compilations is using a series of remembrancers - the method illiterate people used to pass on the words.

Moses was a Revelator - that means God speaks to him directly and he repeats to the people what God has said. A Revelator has a special and rare rank - not a rank other humans can ascend to; it has unique properties and, the purpose is to be a Mediator between God and man.

The people had important questions they put to God, and God answers these according to their capacity. How God answered the story of Creation affirms the earlier traditions in the same way that God always affirms the reality and truth of the previous Revelators.

Only God has actual knowledge of past and future. So, Ghost, all your attempts to fill in the gaps, interpreting it as a nature book, fail. YOU do not know because you weren't there.

The story of Creation illustrates the order of spiritual creation - all the physical objects portray a quality. It begins with an overview and works down to the details. As a literary form, it uses figures of speech to help the individual understand that which lies at a deeper level of meaning.

deuce916: You're saying the son of god hasn't got time on his side. Phew - you blew it there.

davejackson1960: The previous religion was Judaism, and Jews do not recognize Moses, they recognize Moshe, the bible was an attempt to destroy or pollute the Torah,

davejackson1960: hey deuce long time, still having religious conversations?

davejackson1960: wow a revelator, all my time in the priesthood and I never heard that term ever used.

davejackson1960: it was the priesthood that actually taught me how ridiculous Christianity actually is.

ghostgeek: Zanjan, using your argument, you also weren't there so you don't know either.

ghostgeek: All we have now is the Biblical text. That clearly shows Moses as a liar, a thief and a murderer.

ghostgeek: I cannot see why anybody with a head on their shoulders would want to take the word of a scoundrel.

deuce916: moses telling porky pies eh. I wonder if any people in the bible existed at all. Or were they just stories put together by peasants. Certainly people with money don't get good treatment in the bible. Which is strange because the world is addicted to money. Imagine trying to stifle what comes naturally. You've no idea what activities & thoughts come naturally to humans. But here we are, the result of previous fuck-ups. & will, in turn, create fuck-ups, until people stop trying to hide their inner selves.