Is Christianity Truth?

oh_good_laughs: I always look through the viewpoint - If there is 'one-truth' of our exitance, there would have to be evidence to go alongside this truth. In saying this, i don't see any evidence surpassing Christianity as the 'one-truth'.

Scripture have been found in the Judaism-Christianity religion, that historians and archaelogist can agree with being around thousands and thousands of years old (dead sea scrolls).

Many archaelogist have found cities in the bible no longer in existence today.

Moses's miracles he performed were found on the walls of Egyptian hieroglyphics.

Nehamiahs wall has been found.

Today we have over 6-billion people, in 1985 we had 5-billion people, in 1800 we had 1/4-billion.. If you were to plot these dates on graph paper you would see that it has the origin of man's beginning aligning accuratly with the bible's discription of the flood (around 2700b.c.).

The fact there have been (by numerous civilizations) 270 flood legends, that portray accuratly with the bible.

As the bible was written, the scriptures were around 40 percent prophecy, they have been foretelling the future for 1000s of years, and if you read carefully, you will see different books from different eras (such as Daniel and Revelations) seem to carry where the other left off in prophecy.

Also, if you are familiar with Revelations, it has given us the last signs before the returning of Christ, and the end of times. We are unravaling to the bible's prophecy of the rise of the anti-Christ - He will rise speaking of great peace, and establish a one world government/currency/leader, many will look at him as God. The 'false-peace' will be held for 3 and a half years, then he will destroy the promised peace, and it will be hell on earth for the last 3 an a half years, it will be 'awful times as never seen before', most of the world will be dead before the end of this span. Then the return of Christ, and armageddon

deuce916: Risen, Harry Potter books carry on where the other left off, but that doesn't make them true.

source: Risen, I will now address your issues, point by point:

1 None of the Dead Sea Scrolls have turned out to be Christian. They are all Jewish. If anything, their similarities with Christianity prove that Christianity isn't as unique as previously thought.

2 Christian researchers have tried to locate names found in the Bible in the strangest places, like when Charles Leonard Woolley announced that he had found "Abraham's Ur" at Tell Al-Mukayyar in Southern Iraq, whereas moderns researches place it at Urfa in Southeastern Turkey! But you are correct in your assumption that some of the names (both stated in the Bible and other old scriptures) have been found at their presumed locations. Just remember to take all such assumptions with a pinch of salt, since people are known to stretch the terrain out of proportions to make it fit the map!

3 Moses' "miracles" were nothing but aftermaths from the eruption of the volcano Thera in the Aegean Sea in the year 1366 BC. All ten "plagues" can be explained rationally, but I don't have enough space to do it here. Just trust me on this…

4 The Biblical Flood is a hybrid between a local disaster in the Euphrates-Tigris Valley around 3000 BC ( which left a layer of silt at Woolley's digs, so he proclaimed that he had discovered "Noah's Flood" ) and the historical memory of the last pole shift nearly 12000 years ago, which very few humans survived. The authors of the Bible copied these narrations from much earlier Mesopotamian originals and included them in their new work, after they had edited and adapted them to the Hebrew theology of their time (900 BC - 450 BC). The many flood legends you refer too are due to the fact that the pole shift affected the whole world, while "Noah's Flood" was a strictly local phenomenon.

5 All Biblical "prophecies" were meant for the same or the next generation. To seek for fulfillments after centuries or millennia results in nothing, except creating a number of bizarre situations.

6 Revelation's references to beasts concern the Zealot movements and Anti-Christ was its leader Simon, who challenged Jesus in a number of ways. After AD 110, Revelations no longer had any historical relevance. The "Armageddon" in question comes from the splitting of the religious order Dan, where the largest off-shot was called "Mega-Dan" which then became "Mageddon". Include the definite article "har" and you have "Har-Mageddon", Harmageddon" or "Armageddon".

oh_good_laughs: Source - "BC. All ten "plagues" can be explained rationally"

Source, how do you take such a strong-rationalized perspective.

Moses took the Hebrew slaves out of the grips of the strongest military known to man at the time. Moses sent plague after plaque, he turned water into blood, the plague of death killed all the first born, he parted the whole red sea by the lifting of his staff.

The bottom line is - slaves, mere slaves, escaped the grasp of the strongest military in the world, and established a country that has withheld the test of time as a testimony for God-Almighty.

How can one as intellegent as yourself, see this as a simple scientific procedure.

oh_good_laughs: Source -

The Revelations argument is stating what some theologians believe, the historical-time-relevance with the Roman Empire.. But you are ignoring what is outside the 'historical-time' text in Revelations, the future fulfillments that i have posted, thee 'end times' of humanity, not of John the Apostle.

oh_good_laughs: Source - "None of the Dead Sea Scrolls have turned out to be Christian. They are all Jewish"

The proper name for Christians is, Judaism-Christianity. Our origin is the Old Testament (Torah).

oh_good_laughs: Kinzie - Most of what you wrote revolves around the idea the bible is inaccurate.

To assume the bible is inaccurate is to discredit the fact that the New Testament alone has over 300 manuscripts. To say the bible is not realiable is not true.

Different books the Catholics have, such as the Apocrypha, they are not 'holy' scriptures, nor part of the cannon. Their purpose is to show the 'time-relevance' of different 'Holy' scriptures in the cannon.

Hobbit: Anyone who has lived in a region for however many years, as Moses had, could give a fairly accurate assessment of when something will happen. Pollen in water can turn it red. I have seen it. I have a picture as well.

Point is, Christianity is not truth. but a portion of truth, as are all religions. Different cultures are trained to learn different ways. With those different ways, they come with different conclusions to the same problem. Take clothing and warfare for that matter.

Europeans developed long swords, and east asia developed katanas. They have the same purpose "to kill" or subdue an opponent but their way to doing so is different. Long swords use sheer power to rip at opponents, generally using the mid section of the blade to get a clean chop. Katana use more of the tip of the blade, to gently slice into the opponent while the mid and lower parts of the blade are used to protect.

Apply this concept to religion. Each religion has its flaws and falsities and its truths. In a given scenario, it is quite foolish to only look from one perspective.

oh_good_laughs: Hobbit - "Each religion has its flaws and falsities and its truths. In a given scenario, it is quite foolish to only look from one perspective"

What you posted was only your 'opinion'. You attributed no rebbutal to the 'truth' that i have posted, but stated a common critics-remark - 'it has flaws'..

Hobbit: Hobbit "Anyone who has lived in a region for however many years, as Moses had, could give a fairly accurate assessment of when something will happen. Pollen in water can turn it red. I have seen it. I have a picture as well."

Im pretty sure that is a rebuttal to the thing about moses' ten plagues. But if that's not enough.

risen_sun86 -"Today we have over 6-billion people, in 1985 we had 5-billion people, in 1800 we had 1/4-billion.. If you were to plot these dates on graph paper you would see that it has the origin of man's beginning aligning accuratly with the bible's discription of the flood (around 2700b.c.)."

Arn't you forgetting, countless wars of our ancestors and the plagues that came with them? The cruelty of the Spartans only allowing the best of the best babies to live. The Mongolian raids on China forcing the great wall of China to be built. Then the Chinese Civil wars. The conquests of the Persian empires, the Roman response to the Carthaginians by salting the soil of their land. The black plague, Hundred years war, American revolution the world wars, The mass genocides such as in Rwanda. Natural disasters all sorts of things have happened to limit population growth.

risen_sun86 -The fact there have been (by numerous civilizations) 270 flood legends, that portray accuratly with the bible.

The Mississippi river can flood to some extremes, Imagine that happening to a group of people who have never seen it before? Floods are feared because most societies if not all start close to water.

risen_sun86 -As the bible was written, the scriptures were around 40 percent prophecy, they have been foretelling the future for 1000s of years, and if you read carefully, you will see different books from different eras (such as Daniel and Revelations) seem to carry where the other left off in prophecy.

Humans are very predictable, just watch the average person for a day, then look at society for an entire day. Then read your history, go back to society, and Look at what happens. Compare and contrast.

Point is, Christianity is not truth. If it were and there is a god, then the world is F*cked just look at what christians have done. Out of fear, they killed thousands of people because someone said they were witches. Christianity demonizes anything it doesn't accept.

Like I said, "Each religion has its flaws and falsities and its truths. In a given scenario, it is quite foolish to only look from one perspective"

oh_good_laughs: Hobbit - ""Anyone who has lived in a region for however many years, as Moses had, could give a fairly accurate assessment of when something will happen. Pollen in water can turn it red. I have seen it."

Okay, logic here Hobbit, if it was normal for all the bodies of water to turn into blood 'by pollen', the Egyptian's would have no desire to post it on hieroglifics as an indication of 'out of the ordinary'.

You said something about wars, which really has no point when speaking of recorded populations, it may have slowed population growth down, but it would be accounted for in each population census.

The rest of your argument is continuing to use your 'opinion' on the matter, and it doesn't stand very well for a 'rebuttal', but only as your 'thoughts'.

source: Risen, Moses was well trained in many disciplines - also magical - so he knew what could be expected from the downfall of a toxic volcanic ash cloud: Oxidized iron coloring the water red, fish died from poison and insects flourished in swarms once their enemies were dead. The first-born "of man and beast" died because they ate more than their siblings of fungus-infected grain, as was the tradition.

The sea parted between the Mediterranean and Lake Manzila in the Nile Delta because of the withdrawal of water in direction of the volcanic eruption, to replace the quantities that evaporated and went skyward. There is always an extreme ebb and exposed seabed before the tsunami comes crashing down on everything in its way with devastating force.

You accuse me of not seeing things in an "almighty" perspective, but you repeatedly forget that I tried to do exactly that in my younger years without any success. Only when I started to use comparative studies - and saw the Bible for what it really is, a religious-cultural Hebrew reference guide for theological purposes only - did things start to make sense. I used my intelligence to discard explanations that don't hold water. After I managed to let go of my bias and began using an objective and neutral judgment, the pieces started to fall into place.

Now, it's my turn to accuse you of something, namely of trying to force all your suggested explanations into a Jewish-Christian framework by all possible means.

source: The hieroglyphics you like to refer to only describe natural disasters, they don't mention Moses or the Hebrew God at all!

source: At least I use my brain to try to come up with logical and rational explanations, instead of just accepting doubtful ones uncritically.

oh_good_laughs: Source - "Moses was well trained in many disciplines - also magical"

I am suppose to believe, that the 'supernatural' events which happened by the hand of Moses is simple scientific procedure?

I would like to see the red sea part in two today, as you explained it easily could have, I would like to see all the bodies of water 'turn to blood' today, as you said could easily have, i would like to see the plaque of death kill all the firstborns, as you said it easily could have..

The 'logic' of not seeing things properly should not be pointed my direction.

source: It was not the Red Sea, but the Reed Sea (Nile Delta) that parted. And it still does sometimes when the conditions are right. Sandbanks come and go in this area all the time. Sometimes they are submerged, sometimes not.

I guess that is all I have to say for now, since you seem unable to process common sense. I'll save my effort for a more appreciable audience.

Entropy: Source, do you think there is enough evidence to assume that Moses actually existed--like Jesus? Even in the Old Testament, the stories that speak of Moses begin with words like "long ago," or something that implies the story is not being told by someone who lived it out in first person. Moreover, the author(s) of the stories involving Moses gives the impression that he is just as ancient a character as Achilles is to us. I have read that many scholars express a similar opinion--that Moses very well may not have existed and it was just a folks tale, told in as many elaborate dressings as the stories of the ancient Greek gods--which we don't expect to have much basis in reality either. I find even more confirmation that Moses was just arab-mythology through the fact that this portion of the Torah existed in oral form only for 2000 years (?) before it was ever written down. Playing telephone for 2000 years gives some interesting results.

source: Yes, I do believe that Moses really existed, but the Biblical Moses is a composite figure that is made up of traits from several historical persons. The underlying objective for the Hebrew narrators, however, was to present him as an Israelite, although most of his elements were Egyptian.

The stories of Moses were first written down some 400 years - not 2000 years - after he died, but they - like everything in the Bible - have undergone several rounds of editing to reach the present content.

If the real Moses lived to see the very mature age of 120, he must have lived from 1394 BC to 1274 BC. Some researchers have proposed that two different men stood model for the first and last half of his life span, but if he had access to some of the same long-life dietary items that the early patriarchs consumed, one person might easily have reached such an age.

That is why I have no problems with "the Biblical ages" of people living for hundreds of years. For more references on this interesting topic, please consult the books of Laurence Gardner.

Entropy: Thanks. I couldn't remember how long the oral Torah went before it was recorded. I took a college class on Western Religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam). Judaism's history is very interesting... which is why Christianity and Islam chose to abduct it (emulation is the best form of flattery?).

I'm just of the opinion that it may be an exercise in futility to explain ALL of the miraculous claims/works of Moses by conventional means, because I'm sure most of those things didn't happen to begin with (the parting of the sea, the 10 plagues, etc). When someone like Risen asks a question like "then how do you explain the parting sea?" I can only look at them with astonishment of how simple their minds must be. The only thing I would take away from those stories is that there was some form of uprising or rebellion from the lower-lower class Israelites, that a man organized it and challenged the Pharaoh, whom we may or may not call Moses, that their rebellion was successful, and that they all traveled together in attempt of finding a new home (a migration which I'm sure did not take 40 years). Beyond that, I would assume that everything else is eccentric writing. The winners of wars usually get to write the history books, and:

"What is history but a fable agreed upon?"

-Napoleon Bonaparte

bahcatcha: They may have found Nehemiah's wall, they may even have found Charlie Browns kite, but as of yet they have failed to find any proof of the crucifixion, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus. Without this very important evidence Christianity is nothing more than an old fable.

bahcatcha: no proof of it. argue all you want, post all the other crap you want, but no proof of Jesus.

bahcatcha: just a fable, an old wives tale.

bahcatcha: a hoax, a phony, a prank, a lie, a big joke.

source: Entropy, although I don't agree with all their conclusions, I partly base my arguments on the following books:

Colin J Humphreys "The Miracles of Exodus" (HarperSanFrancisco, New York, 2004, ISBN 0 - 0 6 - 0 5 8 2 7 3 - 1)

Graham Phillips: "Act of God" (Pan Books, London, 1998, ISBN 0 - 3 3 0 - 3 5 2 0 6 - 7)

Ahmed Osman: "Out of Egypt" (Arrow Books, London, 1999, ISBN 0 - 0 9 - 9 2 - 7 7 9 6 5 - 4)

bahcatcha: Unsubstantiated garbage, no evidence, no proof, no common sense, no truth, no reason to believe just brain dead belief. Open your eyes, have your coffee and wake your brain up and you will see.

bahcatcha: IT IS ALL ONE BIG FAIRY TALE THAT IS ALL IT WAS EVER MEANT TO BE IT JUST GOT TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT BY RELIGIOUS NUTS.