Question for Muslims (Page 3) CandyRivers: I do find it odd that people who dissaprove of the west choose to live in it. I have to say I would never choose to go and live in Saudi or Dubai, I dont agree with the politics so I keep out of the country.  Gygaxx: Entropy, I guess you missed the part of my post that read "it will be illegal for people to cover their faces in public". Only "cover-it-all garments" will be banned, while hijab and all kinds of funny hats will still be kosher in France, the way I have understood it from my vantage point halfway between Europe, Africa and the Middle East. flashie: fair enough. i tried the moving thing but realised i like being a miserable cont, surrounded in an o%y$ of it. my heritage is northern european, not saying i wouldnt ever move but home is where the heart is etc. and we have responsibility to protect our lands best interests, not blindly follow our often shit rulers, often screwing the people over. i think if a country were allowed to be a real muslim state as many algerian mates i knew had hoped for after their civil war, you'd find muslims queueing to migrate there. but their arent feather: @Tony The men of the three patriarchical religions (Juadism, Christianity & Islam) have always felt threatened by women, so they formed the theology to supress them. With a few exceptions, like the female judge Deborah and some strong women in the Gnostic movements that literalist, Roman Christianity managed to suppress, males have arrogantly degraded women's role in religion and social life. Hopefully, this trend will end as soon as more women around the world become enlightened and recognise their rights.  Entropy: I'm not advocating that the western world take action to impose civil rights laws for women in oppressed countries. I am simply saying, one is justified in vocalizing criticism of such immoral practices. flashie: ^well said feather. youre entitled to say that entro but wasnt this thread about verses regarding heaven and women? Lex Hardon: Doesnt it also further proove that religions are man made? The way that these religious dogmas always seem to have mens interests at heart, with women always seeming to come off second best. Lex Hardon: It the religious lotto!!! which belief has the golden ticket?? Obviously, they cant all be right! flashie: lol. exactly tony Mu`âdh b. Jabal relates that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said to him: “O Mu`âdh! Do you know what is Allah’s right over His servants and what their right is over Him?” I said: “Allah and His Messenger know best.” He said: “Allah’s right over His servants is that they worship Him without associating any partner with Him in worship, and their right over Him is that He does not punish anyone who worships Him without associating any partner with Him in worship.” [Sahîh al-Bukhârî and Sahîh Muslim] it better not be a stitch up or my roting corpse is gonna be well annoyed flashie: Islam came as a new religion to the world, reviving, invigorating, and kindling the greatest human values and qualities. Its message was unambiguous and it came with clear injunctions enumerating the rights of the human being – the rights of the governed and those who govern; the rights of the young and old; the rights of the student and the teacher; the rights of the man, woman, and child; the rights of the employee and the employer… When Islam came forth onto the world and announced its truth, it came upon nations that had long been neglectful of what is right and had transgressed against the rights of the people. People saw Islam as coming to their rescue. This is the secret behind why Islam spread so rapidly to the farthest reaches of the known world. People accepted it with their hearts and their minds. They freely embraced the faith, because of the unprecedented way that Islam guaranteed and protected their human rights. This hadîth above speaks about Allah’s rights over the people and their rights over Allah. Islamic legal scholars have spoken at length about this topic, and they have concluded that the rights of Allah are based upon leniency and pardon, whereas the rights of human beings are incontestable. The theory of human rights in Islam has a strong spiritual dimension. The human being is directly accountable to his Lord. It is not just a matter of accountability before the law. Honoring the rights of other human beings is a means by which a person can become elevated in the sight of his Lord – or debased if he does not honor those rights. In other words, the issue of upholding human rights becomes a means by which a person’s fate in the Hereafter can be sealed. Indeed, the Prophet (peace be upon him) describes how a person can arrive “bankrupt” on the Day of Judgment without any good deeds to his credit, simply because he failed to uphold the rights of others. Abû Hurayrah relates in Sahîh Muslim: The Prophet (peace be upon him) asked us: “Do you know who is bankrupt?” We replied: “The one among us who is bankrupt is someone who has neither gold nor silver nor any provision.” The Prophet (peace be upon him) then said: “Among my people, the one who is bankrupt is the one who – after praying, fasting, and paying charity – arrives on the Day of Judgment having cursed one person and slandered another, assaulted another, and misappropriated the wealth of someone else. Then those people will be given of his good deeds, and if his good deeds run out before redress is made, then some of their sins will be taken from them and put upon him. Then he will be cast into Hell.” The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “The nest of you is the one who exhibits the best ethical conduct.” [Sahîh al-Bukhârî and Sahîh Muslim] This ethical conduct is none other than to uphold the rights of others and safeguard their honor. Islam teaches us to determine the rights of others by considering our own rights. A person may well know what his own rights are, but fail to honor the rights of others. This is why the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “None of you believes until he loves for his brother what he loves for himself.” [Sahîh al-Bukhârî and Sahîh Muslim] He also said: “Treat others how you wish to be treated.” [Sahîh Muslim] In this way, Islam raises the devoted Muslim above selfishness. A Muslim should not act as if the world revolves around him, thinking only to safeguard his own rights and considering nothing of the rights that others have over him. flashie: Islam has come with a concept that no body of legislation has addressed. This is the notion of “oppression of the self”. Islam seeks to preserves the person from transgressing the rights that he has over his own person. Allah says: “And whoever does evil or oppresses his soul, then asks forgiveness of Allah, he shall find Allah forgiving, merciful.” [Sûrah al-Nisâ’: 110] Allah says: “We did them no injustice, but they were unjust to themselves.” [Sûrah al-Nahl: 118] Islam has made the individual responsible to police his own conduct in how he fulfills the rights of others. At the same time, Islam has placed in its sacred law legal injunctions to safeguard those rights, in the context of a painstakingly detailed understanding of inter-personal ethics. In this context, it presents a formidable corpus of law to ensure human rights, the rights of women, spousal rights, the rights of citizens, and the rights of children, the rights of labor, and the rights of property owners. These rights, in turn, exist within the context of civil rights, political rights, and economic rights. Unfortunately, the prevailing culture in today is one that promotes the violation and crass disregard for the rights of others. It is seen as a matter of course to try and infringe upon the rights of someone else and impose one’s authority whenever one gets the chance. This is why the eminent jurist, Ibn Daqîq al-`Id said that the rights of others are “a pit from the pits of Hell, at the precipice of which stand two types of people: those who have knowledge and those who hold political power.” He meant that the transgression of the rights of others is often carried out by people who wield political power and by those who have cultural or religious authority. Through such people, political, religious, and social oppression is carried out. To prevent injustice, Islam has come with clear and precise ethical injunctions. These are put in place to ensure that the human being can live in dignity, with freedom of speech, or vocation, and of religion. Allah says: “Let there be no compulsion in religion.” [Sûrah al-Baqarah: 256] Allah details many of the civic rights that people have over each other in Sûrah al-Hujurât, verses 11-12: O you who believe! Let not a folk deride a folk who may be better than they (are), nor let women (deride) women who may be better than they are; neither defame one another, nor insult one another by (offensive) nicknames. Bad is the name of lewdness after faith. And whoever does not turn in repentance, such are evil-doers. O you who believe! Shun much suspicion; for lo! some suspicion is a crime. And spy not, neither backbite one another. Would one of you love to eat the flesh of his dead brother? You would abhor it. And keep your duty (to Allah). Lo! Allah is relenting, merciful. flashie: its long but very on topic entro.. Dr. Munâ al-Qâsim Ibn `Abbâs said to `Atâ b. Rabâh: "Shouldn't I point out to you a woman of Paradise?" He replied: "Indeed. Do so." Ibn `Abbâs said: "Do you see that black lady? She approached the Prophet (peace be upon him) and said: 'I suffer from epilepsy and during a fit, my body becomes exposed. So please supplicate Allah on my behalf.' "Then the Prophet said to her: 'If you choose, you might rather bear it patiently and you will attain Paradise on account of it. Or if you like, I will beseech Allah to cure you.' "She said: 'I will bear it patiently. But my body gets exposed, so please beseech Allah that my body will no longer be exposed.' "The Prophet (peace be upon him) beseeched Allah for this." [Sahîh al-Bukhârî (5652) and Sahîh Muslim (2576)] The woman's name was Su`ayrah – though some say her name was Shuqayrah – al-Habashiyyah al-Asadiyyah. She was known as Umm Zufar. She was a tall, black lady, and one of the Companions remembered for her patience. She had been Khadijah's lady in waiting. After Khadîjah's demise, the Prophet (peace be upon him) used to show her extra deference and respect. When she grew older, she became afflicted with epilepsy, and her body would become exposed due to the severity of her seizures. The Prophet (peace be upon him) beseeched Allah on her behalf to preserve her modesty. He also gave her glad tidings of Paradise. There are many things we can learn from her example: 1. Her story teaches us that we need to turn to Allah with our needs. We need to fear Him and worship Him alone and seek refuge with Him. It is Allah alone who can cure our ills and alleviate our suffering. Our sincerity and faith when we turn to Allah can benefit us in amazing ways. Medical doctors admit that faith has a great affect on healing, often more pronounced than medications, though medications certainly can benefit us. 2. We also learn how virtuous the quality of patience is. This hadith shows us that when we bear illness in patience and fortitude, it is a means by which our sins are forgiven and by which we attain Allah's blessings and entrance into Paradise. Al-`Aynî says in his commentary on this hadîth: "The exercise of patience in affliction bequeaths to us Paradise. Bearing one's tribulation with fortitude is better for the one who knows he is capable of handling it without becoming weak in his resolve." [`Umdah al-Qârî (21/215)] flashie: We can also see how the Prophet's glad tidings were a help and a comfort to her. It gave her hope. The role of a positive attitude in coping with illness and in aiding the recovery process is well-known. 3. We can see the respect that the Prophet (peace be upon him) showed this woman by his giving her the choice. He respected her right to make the decision for herself in a matter that affected her life. He let her know her options, while showing that he was well aware of the extent of her suffering. He knew it was best for her to be patient if she had the fortitude to bear her illness. However, he trusted her to make the decision for herself. 4. We can learn from this woman the value of modesty. We can see her concern for keeping her body from being exposed when she had a seizure, in her asking the Prophet (peace be upon him) to beseech Allah to protect her modesty when she was not able to control her movements and was free from all blame. We can also see how the Prophet (peace be upon him) readily complied with her request. We must know that the Prophet's supplication has a special value, and his supplication was certainly answered. We should compare her concern with the willfully immodest dress of many people today. And Allah knows best. Lex Hardon: Here is another quote taken from that same website 'Islam Today' I want to know what the women think of this. "My wife is not in the habit of going outside of the house without a mahram unless it is a case of dire necessity. Now, a problem which has recently occured is that sisters who regulary go out unchaperoned are telling her that it is stupid to wait at home until I come if she needs to buy something. What should I say?" (Answered by the Permanent Committee of Saudi Arabia for Fatwâ and Research) It is allowed for a woman to go to the market to buy something necessary if there is no one to buy it for her. While going out, she has to observe proper Islamic dress, avoid mixing with men in one place, and conduct herself morally. Also, i want to know why this doesnt equally apply to men? Should men be allowed to go to the market unchaperoned too? If so, why? Spirit One: Seems to me ,and mind you this is just my opinion ,why does your wife have to be chaperoned by her husband or another man ,are you fearful another man will lust after her or that she can't be trusted and may stray ? I'm just trying to figure out your ways ,they seem overly opressive toward females ,I read an article yrs ago that was most disturbing ,it said a mob attacked a muslim man and his wife because he rode her on his bicycle and her ankle was exposed ,I couldn't even fathom covering my wife in BLACK from head to toe ,beaten mercilessly for showing an ankle [unintentionally]  Coach-Man: Yes, it only confirms my observation from many years ago that too much religion is unhealthy... Point5andahalf: "Also, i want to know why this doesnt equally apply to men? Should men be allowed to go to the market unchaperoned too? If so, why?" Because men have more testosterone and are more aggressive. Why would a man need a chaperone? I can understand why a woman might feel unsafe, but a man?? Talent_M: "Also, i want to know why this doesnt equally apply to men? Should men be allowed to go to the market unchaperoned too? If so, why?" do you want to compare yourself with the women!? where is your manliness? secondly it's conditional to the woman,there is no obligation upon her to go outside with a mahram,it's just for more provisions nothing more nothing less, man we care about our women. Spirit One: without woman ,none of you would be breathing Yahweh's fresh air don't try to class yourself above she who birthed you CandyRivers: As a woman I feel that it is insulting. I dont need a chaperone. Why would I need one - to protect me from other men? What is the purpose of this? Kundra: It's really sad when men defend their gender's discrimination of women. So much for knights in shining armour that stand up for our rights. Entropy: thethe, in a society where men view it as a woman's moral shortcoming if she is raped by a man, you would probably want to walk around with a chaperone. Men of that culture are dangerous. :/ My opinion-- maybe men of that society should just learn to take responsibility for their own actions. Then, perhaps, everyone can share equal rights. john1576: Perhaps the rapid development of these countries with mediaval attitudes to women has contributed to their problems in regulating everyday life. Remember American society developed along the lines of agriculture, industry, social democracy, etc. Many of these Islamic countries over night have seen a transition from desert or mud hut living into nations with shopping malls, roads, automobiles, electricity, airports etc. It takes time for nations to find their feet with social change just as it does with individuals, even in the most adaptable and resilient societies like America. Look at Detroit in the 1980s, when the automobile industry went through it's big reorganisation and tens of thousands lost their jobs. Folks in Detroit had to do a lot of "adjusting". | Religion Chat Room 21 People Chatting Similar Conversations |