Ukraine Dying Hard for The America 2022-present (Page 3)
freedomfirst1797: chowoman.... he is just doing his job. For his sake.... I hope they aren't paying him in Roubles.
I doubt he’s Russian or paid by Russia.
Propaganda can be strong enough to cloud a person’s judgment on what’s acceptable and unacceptable.
The13th: freedom, I am not even from Russia. I imagine living in that cold land up there is harsh enough without sanction. Sanction cannot hurt that much more.
No Whisky, I just didnt think we need a distraction of a war up there. And the uncertainty of how it might affect world economy .... and impact our life thousands of miles away.
Propaganda are control mostly by US and favor Ukraine, the rest of the world just sing the US chorus. You invade you are the bad guy. But here I see the so called invasion as self-defense. There is nothing more to Russia action. Its just pure and simple self-defense.
The13th: Where did I come from? I am from the country where we got a jet MH17 that got shot down by supposedly Russian missile. But hardly anyone in this country blame Russian for that. We have not crossed each other, no bad blood, there is nothing to gain by shooting down MH17. I know if they knew that is MH17 they will not shoot it down. If Ukraine manage their relationship with Russian well may be MH17 is still flying. See how things happen thousands of miles away can unexpectedly affect us here.
The13th: Now I dont mind adding this: What has the most to gain by the downing of MH17 ...... think about it. Then you know who is the bad guy.
TheCovenant: First we will annex the Crimea, Then we will annex the Donbas, then we will invade the Ukraine it will be over in 2 weeks, then we will censor the press , then we will have a giant rally to celebrate my greatness. Then we will crush the anti Russian Ukrainian Slav Cockroaches, then we will bomb children's hospitals, Russia is Russian. Then we will begin our de Nazification process.
Is this real????? My father told me about this when I was a kid as a warning to me !!!!. This is twilight zone stuff....
An invasion is an act if aggression. It is not a defense strategy. You even admitted that Ukraine posed no imminent threat to Russia.
I’m not from the US and have heard the rhetorics that the Kremlin released.
I’m also not saying that NATO’s expansion is favourable but I can’t side with Putin’s actions when I also object to NATO or any other country doing the same.
Shooting down schools, displacing people and killing innocent people for what result? What do you envision will result from this action?
TheCovenant: What the F@ck!!! Putin is hanging around Moscow, doing god knows what, telling people what to do and bossing people around.
Zellinsky is in a bunker on the front lines rallying the troops and his people.
Puting ordered 180 000 mechanised russian troops to invade.
Zelinsky "mobillized" over 900 000 reservists with over half the male population heading for the front as infantry.
Putin what a prick, hasn't visited the front once. Why would he, he only started the war. He is completely insulated from the consequences of his actions. The embarrassment over backing down would be worse for him than tens of thousands of civilian deaths.him and his secret police are a bunch of assholes, and he is dragging the russian people along for the ride.
TheCovenant: Canadians are just like Putin but worse. you have to kill to enforce gun control. you have to genocide Indians to prove your dedication to the crown. you have to torture to infiltrate immigrant societies instead of learning their language.
I can't argue with that logic, its perfect. you've locked us up so well with the secret police so there is no possibility of retaliation, ever ,here. but don't come crying to us when you step on your dick or get hit over there. this is the society you prayed for, so if you get caught with sloppy police work or lazy procedures at 80 000 a year plus all I can say fuck you right back, and your asshole kids to. you deserve each other.
I wish canada had a charter or even a constitution, that would be my dream.
The13th: NATO need to realize that one of their dear brother, a dearest brother who wish to join them and become a Natoist, is being pounded by Russia.
OK lets suppose Russia is wrong. Well then, NATO please right the wrong. Mobilize troop. Cross the border. March towards Moscow. Operation Babarossa all over again. Save our dearest Ukraine brother. Go NATO go go go.
freedomfirst1797: The entire world failed to take Hitler seriously when he seized Czechoslovakia and annexed Austria in 1938. Some said he had "legitimate grievances" and that we should accommodate him for the sake of world peace. Then he invaded Poland in 1939 and there were still some who wanted to appease him. The net result was a horrific war that resulted in the loss of almost 100 million lives.
The Spanish philosopher George Santayana once wrote, “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it,” Those of us living in North America cannot understand these horrors because we have never been invaded by brutal forces. We have been insulated by two vast oceans, and have never felt the real pain of seeing helpless women and children savagely slaughtered.
This war might have started when Putin took Crimea in 2014 and the world sat by idly and watched. But his ambitions were signalled even earlier in 2008 when he invaded Georgia and seized 20% of it in his quest to reconstitute the Russian Empire. And every time we do nothing he is further emboldered.
We are at the crossroads now. We can keep appeasing this monster, or we can defend civilization now, rather than waiting until the cost will be much higher. It is our decision to make, because no matter what happens the consequences will fall on all of us.
freedomfirst1797: @ The13th.... Ukraine wanted to join NATO but is not currently a member. This might explain why Putin invaded Ukraine and not Poland, Latvia, Estonia or Lithuania who are all NATO members now. The only thing preventing those nations from being invaded is the certainty of a response from their NATO allies. And it explains why Ukraine desperately wanted to join, and Russia was willing to take risks to prevent it.
The13th: I think its unfair to draw parallel between Putin and Hitler.
For one thing, Putin will stop here at Ukraine and go no further.
For another thing, Hitler was a much larger historical figure than Putin. I dont think contemporary politicians can ever compare to political figures of those era.
(Edited by The13th)
I do not think the Putin and Hitler parallels match.
However, I don’t think the Kremlin will stop here, at Ukraine.
freedomfirst1797: WHISKY....If I wasn't 73, and didn't have some health problems, I might do it. Of course, there are probably men fighting over there who are older than me fighting alongside their children and grandchildren.
Ukraine has committed no crime against Russia. All they want is to defend their homes, and be a part of Europe rather than being a vassal state of Russia. I think it is important for the people who want to appease Putin to remember who invaded who, and who is bombing and killing civilians. This isn't a conflict, it is a genocide.
Technically it is a conflict and not by definition a genocide.
All the best to the Ukrainians. I did not go to Syria to help the civilians there. I did not do so for those in Afghanistan when they were invaded, and so forth. My responsibility is my family.
freedomfirst1797: and... you are right. Putin will not stop until someone stops him. Every success only makes him more aggressive. I am hopeful that the Russian people themselves will stop him, because he has permanently harmed them. Even if he "wins" this war, Russia cannot exist in isolation in 2022. They need trade, commerce, technology, and finance in today's world. If he "wins" then he is just making Russia into a larger and more dangerous version of North Korea, where people starve to death, and their children grow up three inches shorter than the South Korean children do.
I imagine that the Russian oligarchs and Russian mafia are upset about Putin disrupting business as usual for them.... This might explain why he needs food tasters and body guards.
TheCovenant: My father tried to explain how the law works, but nobody would listen. Corn fed good looking Canadian farm and city boys and girls who know everything about everything, and the law always worked for them, so they had faith in it. Judges that joked with prosecutors and defence attorneys, no problem. Doctors that took orders from police , no problem. Princesses whose only skill is jerking suds at a bar and explaining the law through interpretative dance, no problem. Brutalising minorities who cannot retaliate because of cowardly nameless faceless tactics , then hiding behind the protection of the law when caught, no problem.
I did not pay money for Ukrainian independence, not in a million years, just because they speak English doesnt make them any less communist. Your sins are not erased by learning english as a second language. I paid money to put a hit on a Russian soldier. And its perfectly legal. I waited 40 years for this moment. And I'll wait another 40 years for a Canadian if I have to. You have my parole, as long as you are on top and outside my domain. Are we learning yet. Until that day.
The13th: See Whisky, if only Ukraine think like that - responsible to family. But they are just irresponsible to family when they try to play the NATO card and that lead to a Russian response.
Ukraine committing no crime? I am not very sure. What Ukraine commit is a stand. When you want to join NATO, you are joining a war organization against Russia. You cannot blame Russia for responding. I am not very sure what do you call pointing a few hundred nuclear missile at other people country. Its worst than a crime.
WHlSKY: The 13th, they are thinking like that, their families are being attacked.
I don’t see the logic. What is the desired results of attacking another country? It will instead move others to join on with NATO.
What Putin should have done if he was uneasy with NATO’s actions (which is understandable), he should have aimed for friendlier relations with the countries that boarders Russia and appease to them. To be diplomatic instead of this unjustifiable attack.
Attacking made him lose all credibility. Made him look exactly like the West’s way of dealing with ‘military weaker’ countries.
The13th: Russia has not objected too strongly when several neigbouring ex USSR countries cross over to NATO. Ukraine is the bottom line because of some historical close tie that I am not completely clear, but I am aware that there are many Russian speaking people in Ukraine. Or may be if Genghis Khan didnt chase the Russian all the way to Moscow perhaps Kiev is the centre of Russian speaking people.
I never thought Russian over reacted. Essentially the Russian is asking NATO to give them a fair chance to be at peace with NATO. But no, NATO want to play the game until an invasion from Russian is unavoidable. This is what exactly what NATO want. So please stop blaming Russia for ...... blowing up schools and hospitals? I wont be too surprised if Ukraine has blow up their own schools and hospitals and blame Russia.
Plus I dont think any Ukraine has shed a single tear drop for those human being who free fall from MH17.