Critical Race Theory
ClassicCarTunes: My feeling on the races: Equal opportunity for everyone. If Joe, a black fellow, gets a job and I do not, good for him. If Juana, a Hispanic lady, buys a nice house, good for her and her family.
But where I depart from this is when its dependent on each person in a race to be held accountable for their ancestors way of life whether its slavery, indentured servitude, KKK murders, etc.
This from CNN:
"As some public school districts move toward embracing critical race theory in their curriculums, others -- like in Idaho -- are doing the opposite.
Idaho lawmakers have advanced a bill that would prohibit public schools, including public universities, from teaching that "any sex, race, ethnicity, religion, color, or national origin is inherently superior or inferior," which, according to the bill, is often found in "critical race theory."
It also prohibits teachings arguing that "individuals, by virtue of sex, race, ethnicity, religion, color, or national origin, are inherently responsible for actions committed in the past by other members of the same sex, race, ethnicity, religion, color, or national origin.""
Did you read that? By me being white I would be held accountable for what happened by someone in my race in Charleston, SC! Totally ridiculous. This tears down the foundations of our country that each individual was to be "tried" based on his or her actions! Not what Grandpa did in Vietnam to the people in a village. Not to Jimmy Perkins whose great grandfather owned slaves!
So what about Hispanic people who killed natives when they came to Mexico, Central America, Florida, South America. Are each of them going to have to bear the guilt of their ancestors? No way!
What about blacks, whose ancestors sold each other to the West African slave traders along the coast. So does that mean that every black person is to be held responsible for what their own people did to them? No way!
What about Asians? Is every Japanese person to be held accountable for how the Filipinos were treated in WW2?
Yes, based on what I have read from the Brazilian community in Japan, a boy that is Japanese-Brazillian is probably NOT going to be the CEO of Toyota! Truth. That group has had to build separate schools in order for them to get a quality education. My friend, Peter, is Dutch-Indonesian. He was kicked out of his own country along with his Dutch father after WW2 and lived in Holland where he was beaten because he was a "darky." So should ever Dutch person be held responsible for that? No.
Now if they want to teach that each race and culture is entitled to protection and freedom under the Constitution, as I was in school, then I am all for it.
But when they start telling me that I am responsible for the Jim Crow laws ... take a hike!
I agree with Critical Race Theory where it says that no race, ethnic group, etc is inherently inferior or superior.
this is what I differ with:
individuals, by virtue of sex, race, ethnicity, religion, color, or national origin, are inherently responsible for actions committed in the past by other members of the same sex, race, ethnicity, religion, color, or national origin.
I am not responsible for a man who beats his wife, man like that scumball in the Michigan congress who has sexually harassed his fellow co-workers, etc.
If that is the case then EVERY person in this country would be held accountable for their ancestor or any person in their race, culture, ethnic group's crimes and believe me that includes every person in the country.
(Edited by ClassicCarTunes)
lori100: ridiculous, more racial division....and all races benefit from white inventions everyday...
ClassicCarTunes: I don't get into who is benefiting more .. what I think is that the author of that concept missed out ... their theory would encompass anyone including victims. Its a ridiculous theory as every race has been guilty of racism, crime you name it.
We had a black guy at one company I worked at. I had to listen to his racism comments a lot. He is a huge supporter of Farrakhan. I was almost to the point of going to see HR about it. Fortunately I only had to work with him for 1.5 years. And he did courier trips so he was out of the office a lot.
This guy was always making sure he left work right on the dot. Meanwhile, another black fellow worked across the aisle from me. Always dressed sharp. Finally moved on to take a better position. Our supervisor was a very nice black lady that eventually started her own business back in Wash DC helping black people get into our career field. I always enjoyed working for her. Only once was she frustrated about the black-white situation. I told her that I could not help her with this white manager we had. She should go to HR about it.
Bottom line: yes, there has a been a lot of exploiting by the whites of races during the Colonial expansion period and into the 20th Century. By now only those whites who are racist are trying to deny the other races their rights. Most whites in the US believe in a free society where creative talent on the part of all is equally rewarded.
I find it totally disgusting that the Asians are being assaulted because of the COVID virus. How does a Thai lady have anything to do with COVID?
theHating: So you think no one would want to examine how culture and law affects society because you feel like your personal view on race is exceptional?
Have you ever googled CRT? Why do you accept one source for what CRT is about? Did you know CRT has actually nothing to do with what the bill claims it does? Do you think that just because this quote comes from cnn that cnn is endorsing this strawman narrative? Did you read "according to the bill" or "according to cnn"?
I read your post for almost two weeks, everyday and I honestly don't agree with your conclusion that by virtue of you being white that youre responsible, I think you just fell for propaganda.
So repubs want to ban teaching a notion that white guys are bad by virtue of their skin, yet CRT does precisely none of this and now you believe it does based on the reactionary language being reported on through a news source that endorses CRT.
Ngl, not very big brain stuff.
Why not just google it? Lol so hysterical about nothing at all. CRT used to be other things before it became so apparent that american culture, law, and institutions are racist af. Seems like a slippery slope to banning criticism of government institutions.
(Edited by theHating)
The giant midget: I believe that all history and all historic figure from our past should be removed and erased from religion, from conquests and conquers , from inventions , from fortunes and failures , from personal achievements and start from brand new as of midnight on the 31st of February just to make everyone happy
Do we have a deal???
chronology: You can't accurately judge the past morally using today's ethics. The classic example is the Allied bombing of German cities in WW2. Part of America's Secret History is that many American Airmen began refusing to bomb Germany when the reality of such bombing was becoming clear. Millions of German civilians were being killed and their home's destroyed for ever. 'This is not what I signed up for' was the comment of many Americans in the Army Air Force back then. For Washington DC and London there was no other way to save Russia. Without American support, Russia would have been defeated. England and America would then be facing the most technologically advanced country in the world stretching from the English Channel across the entire extent of Europe and Asia to the Alaska Streights. It was a Germany that was already developing ICBMs that could hit New York City. 'We have to save Russia today, if we don't it will be us tomorrow' was the conclusion of the Allies. And the Bombing of Germany went ahead. Such bombing was the only way at the time the Allie's could help Russia.
What if the Alies had not won? Folk's on America's East Coast would be still recovering from seeing New York City destroyed along with Boston and Washington DC by ICBMs. England and Russia would be vassal States of Germany and America would be the only major Democracy in the world.
The giant midget: Erase all that nonsense
Erase everything from the past
Destroy every building with religious associations
Destroy museums and anything in them
Destroy status and monuments
Destroy all things of past history from the beginning of time
That should please everyone eh
theHating: Perhaps you can share what academic theories you advocate as undergirding our understanding of history. Who are the scholars whose work you support? Allan Bloom? Charles Murray? Friedrich Nietzsche?
Those who oppose CRT as an organizing structure for understanding history seem to believe in the existence of a "neutral" ground (already in place, according to various nostalgic views) of rightness. To engage in meaningful discussion, those "status quo" advocates need to dare to look at the underlying theories that have shaped their own thoughts and beliefs, as well as many "traditional" curricula.
ClassicCarTunes: Giant - yes, I hear you. And eventually we wipe out The Cancel Culture too as somewhere down the line of History people look back and say "how offensive was THAT?"
What people don't understand is that you don't have to abandon your culture. You DO need to get along with people and everyone should have an equal chance at a job as long as they can pass the requirements test whether it be a Class A driver's license or a Bachelor's Degree in Business, etc, etc.
I dont go along with the Trump side of the Republican party nor do I hang out with The Cancel Culture. My viewpoint is formed on common sense.
When you go telling people that we need to be ashamed for our ancestor's behavior well then we will always live in shame and those who NEVER were part of the harm of the past can feel entitled to press our noses into the ground over something we never did.
That would be like telling a kid of a murderer that he should feel ashamed about his dad. Sheesh, the child welfare dept. would be all over that in a minute.
How about if I told black people that they should feel ashamed at how bad a womanizer MLK and Ray Charles were? And why is MLK's name all over the land. Lets see "John Lewis Blvd." a man that was a good husband. MLK was unfaithful to his wife and should have been defrocked by his denomination. He never should have been a preacher once he was found out to be an adulterer.
I would NEVER hang that over black people. Just plain wrong.
The entire idea of giving the ancestors of slaves a huge amount of money.... ok, will this continue on down through history will any shred of prejudice exists? I mean, what about their grandkids' grandkids ...
So this generation of black people are entitled to $400k (or something like that)? What about Spanish-Americans who descendants had their land grants ignored when the US absorbed the Louisiana Purchase? What about Chinese that were maltreated during the 1800s?
How about Italians who were discriminated against when they came to America? Jews, Puerto Ricans, etc. Where does it end?
There are bigots in every race. If you are Brazilian-Japanese living in Japan you have ZIP ZERO chance of ever being a leader in govt. or a corp. And in Brazil the same holds .... Japanese-Brazilians are discriminated against. Pretty sad.
ClassicCarTunes: @ theHating - so in the thinking of CRT - I am a black person standing before Gen. Colin Powell ... so you are saying that that soldier got any different outcome than a Puerto Rican soldier.
See, CRT looks at judgements from a racist point of view. While this held true back in the 1880s its not the case in the 2000s. Why? Well because JUST because you were black back in those days meant an automatic BIAS. Now we used statistics and we say, "Well blacks and Latinos are the vast majority of people in prisons. Well why? Is it because a white murderer gets off while the black guy didn't? Or does it have something to do with the individual?
I had a Latino history teacher in high school. He was determined to get OUT of the "barrio" and get a degree. I never heard him whine about cops pulling him over for his skin color. He got his degree and moved on in life.
The VAST majority of inmates in prison are career criminals. Sheesh, their mom had them deliver drugs to a neighbor. I know what I am talking about because I know several black families where mom was a prostitute and drug dealer. That is not the case with all black families of course.
But its like trying to say that we are talking the Holocaust angle: anyone that is a Jew goes into a camp and others do not. That is seriously NOT the case. You should see the amount of black inmates' records. Its not a first offense. Its like 20 offenses.
Whenever you find a police department that has "thugs" immediately ALL police are judged. That is not right. Does anyone here honestly believe that a community action group, instead of a police force, is going to cut down the amount of crime in a city? What is missing is that this community group has no investigative unit. So no wonder the amount of "crime" is down. The crime that is going on behind the scenes is never exposed!
You dont hear people talk about that little fact. Its not like if the Chicago PD went away so would the crime. In fact what you are seeing in some cities like Portland is a rise in crime because of the erasure of some of the officers.
I understand that there is probably a racist judge on the bench but after reading up on CRT they look at it from the racist viewpoint: that blacks were put in prison because of a racist "control group" such as judges and politicians. They leave out the fact that some of these people had to kill someone to join a gang! Where was the attitude of "we love our community" when that happened?
ClassicCarTunes: Question: will the ex-con take a job herding goats who would be used to clear hillsides prior to the fire season for $14 ... or would they jump at the chance to go back to dealing drugs? Well it depends on the individual. But when you tell them they can make a grand a week (or more), tax free, I know that many of them jump at the chance. Thankfully there are those that do go straight. But CRT discounts that part of the equation and uses statistics and not the history of convicts as their basis.
I had two nephews who spent a combined 35 years in prison. When both got out they both went back in soon after being released. They are white. Has everything to do with who you are and some to do with what race you are. While some things are outside our control we don't have to get violent and beat someone up or violate parole.
My brother (white) never understood why I didnt smoke dope or get into trouble with him. He thought I was a sissy. Well I pretty much would agree that he had more courage than me but not a lot of common sense. I liked my job and it required me to stay away from drugs. Earlier in life I saw how he was in jail and I wasnt.
Dont you think there are black boys seeing their older bros. locked up and say, "not for me." So what CRT says is that, "doesn't matter, he will have no choice if the police mistake him for a gang-banger." No, he does have a choice. This is not the Jim Crow era. In those days if you were black you were tossed into jail and prison on a pretext. Now we have more modern law methods and services.
I don't have access to the lawyers that OJ Simpson did. He had money. I do not. In that you can honestly say that there is a disconnect in law. And its based on the fact that the law community looks out for its own in a sick way. The cost of law is ridiculous.
So when I hear "black people don't have money for lawyers" I just laugh. If I had been tried for killing my wife they would have found me guilty .. because I would not have had the best lawyers that money can buy. And I speak for about 70% of the country when I say that.
THERE is your real cause to go fight for. Stop the status discrimination in the courts which is all about MONEY.
FYI: my probate attorney loaned me the final $1600 to close the probate. I paid him out of my refinance money which I took out on the house .... there you go .. a good guy. RIP Mike.
The giant midget: Lots of lip service
You mentioned that some individuals go straight others go back into crime because of the financial opportunities.
I have never heard anyone pass on a 50% discount off anything at a supermarket
I work at a pay rate of 90 dollars per hour than I have to pay income taxes on that money to several tax collectors from different levels of government where I am left with 55 dollars afterwards.
I love working for 75 buck cash per hour,no taxes no bank records
Motati: I often wonder if all this race discussion has ever bore fruits for the society in general or it causes more division. As long as there are laws in place to protect people, I wouldn't care less about what an individual think about different races. The victim and entitlement mentality never works. As a human race we all know how we want to be treated, and that's exactly how the other fellow human being deserves to be treated, irrespective of the person's race, religion or socio economic background.
Should at any given moment a person think that s/he is superior than the other person, why waste time, spend sleepless nights trying to convince the person otherwise. It's his stupidity and myopic thinking, why waste your precious time with that kind of a person. You can have all the wonderful policies and laws in the world you can't change that person's thinking, worse if s/he is a moron.
We have the most terrible people and beautiful people from all races. We are a normal well balanced human race. Let us live our lives to the fullest.
(Edited by Motati)
Pointing this bit out:
“So what about Hispanic people who killed natives when they came to Mexico, Central America, Florida, South America. Are each of them going to have to bear the guilt of their ancestors? No way!“
What the fck are you talking about?
Motati: Can't we just move on? We all know what happened in different countries before. Honestly I am not interested in any stupid history of who killed who, or who was a slave master and so and so was a slave, if it's going to divide the human race.
I think we can all learn from what happened in Rwanda before and what is happening now in that country.
You’re free to unsubscribe to the thread, Motati. I’m not sure why you’re choosing to be present if you are agitated by the topic.
If you are referring to the Tutsi & Hutu conflict, I’m not seeing a correlation with racism.
There were no “Hispanics killing natives.”
The US has racial tension, perhaps because their issues extended beyond slavery and more to recent times. Pretending that there’s no tension hasn’t been working out has it?
“Hispanic refers to people who speak Spanish or who are descendants of those from Spanish-speaking countries. In other words, Hispanic refers to the language that a person speaks or that their ancestors spoke.”
Latin America is very diverse. It no relation to the racism issues in the US.
There’s a lot of inaccuracies in the OP. I get that it’s an opinionated rant but it is also an open forum. Unfortunately, there is noone from the other side to share their views.
Always amazes me though (no offence to you, Motati), the views that we should speak of history ‘to not repeat it’, and we can be taught all things but when it comes to a situation as this, we’re all to pretend to specifically not to talk too much on slavery or the follow up race-related atrocities etc.
That always puzzles me.
(Edited by Comandante_)
ClassicCarTunes: When the Conquistadors landed on these American shores it didnt take too long before they put the natives to work or decimated their populations with more than just disease. The Spanish basically enslaved the native peoples putting them to work for the crown's profit. They looted their temples, etc.
How much plainer do I have to be? Read the history.
So do Spanish people have to suddenly start feeling that they are bad?
We need to move on from the guilt of the past and show that we are truly multicultural, multiracial in thinking. And the last time I checked, Colin Powell had been our first African-American Joint Chiefs of Staff military commander. This is not the USA of 1860. Blacks are NOT hunted down in the street on a nightly basis by ALL whites in this country. A BLACK man, OJ Simpson, probably got away with murder but we all know that had he been tried in 1930 for the killing of his wife he probably would have lost the case.
That latest shooting in Minnesota with a black man dying was a guy that had a gun, was in the wrong and he attempted to use it on cops. They shot him down and I heard that the guy's gf may have been slightly wounded. I believe the guy was on parole and should not have had a gun. Ok - so he gets shot and killed and now the public there is all upset.
Better him than one of their young teens killed by this dude doing a cocaine purchase.
(Edited by ClassicCarTunes)
ClassicCarTunes: At this point I have said all I need to say on the topic. Please continue to post in a non-imflammatory way - I thank all for acting civil here.
As this post was made with an older Wire account I had I no longer have editing access to it. I will leave it to someone to please inform a Mod if it gets out of hand and ask them to delete it if that happens. Thanks!
The conquistadors were from Spain. A person who is from Spain or has origins from Spain is Spanish not Hispanic.
Also, nothing to do with racism.
Conversations on racism is not on make one side ‘feel bad’. It is usually about addressing what was done and what is experienced in recent times.
There is an issue of racism that persons have expressed, hence it’s not a matter of pretending nothing happened because you ‘feel bad’.
It should be about open dialogue.
What does OJ Simpson have to do with anything?
“Better him than one of their young teens killed by this dude doing a cocaine purchase.” - who is ‘their young teens’?