The Zenger Society: A Forum For Free Speech (Page 7)
Fractured fairy tale: Your got no Choice to believe them Chronology as you always say .
Mabye Reality TV will tell you what to do .
If not Try Injecting the Bleach After all Trump is a War Time President.
Either that or Commit Harri Curry
Thanks for the post, Chronology.....I wish you did not feel the need to preface your post with a caveat because my resolution here is to accept each post with equanimity and tolerance. I will admit that, in the last, I failed to live up to those ideals but here, now, my approach is to accept what you post with an open mind, and to read and consider it in the same spirit.
Actually, I was not entirely clear about your post: it seems to state that we pay more attention to a man’s style along with other superficialities, if I interpret your words correctly.
Still, if Mr. Trump’s “style” of governance is the issue, I find much in it to be in question. I think he has alternately bungled it and spent too much time attacking journalists, offering his hare brained schemes for miracle “cures,” and his distorted view of federalism and the role of the state’s gives me great cause for concern. He spends seven hours a day watching the news to see nothing but how HE is perceived by the media and at a crucial time such as this, it seems misplaced and shamefully egocentric. He appears not to understand the gravity of the situation and instead of expressing remorse and compassion for the people who have suffered and died of COVID-19, he thinks of nothing but boasting about his ratings, a wildly inappropriate and childishly self centered thing to talk about.
Plainly put, he has failed miserably at the job he was elected to do: to LEAD the people and NOT to RULE them like some debauched medieval potentate and to comfort them for their losses and to inspire their confidence in a government which is riddled with corruption, incompetence and moral cowardice.
I am tired now and wish to unwind before retiring for the night so if you will permit me, I will resume this tomorrow. I wish you good health and safety during this time of danger and uncertainty.
Thank you for your post and I look forward to hearing more from you. This thread only profits by posts from people with your intelligence and insight, which is why I began it in the first place.
Once again, please take care of yourself.
chronology: Echo, interesting. But really the politicians seem to be becoming as irritated with this situation as everyone else.
What you say may well be true but this country faces the greatest public health threat in decades and I have no doubt that the politicians are just as frustrated as the rest of us. Still, that is small consolation. That alone is no justification for the rest of us who still have to confront the problem which is not getting any better but worse with every passing day. Why pity the poor politicians? After all, this is EXACTLY the reason why they were elected in the first place, weren't they? If they don't like having to answer to the public, well, I say fuck 'em because a politician who avoids public criticism might just as well be working as a common day laborer for all the good he or she does. So cry me no tears for the poor, overworked politicians whose very existence depends upon fielding questions and complaints of the public they are SUPPOSED to serve. I think here, specifically, your compassion is seriously misplaced. What did you think a politician's job was anyway? To enjoy five martini lunches before retiring to fuck an intern who is so overawed by the majesty of their employer that the very notion of doing an honest day's work makes them run like thieves? Come on now---I'm supposed to feel PITY for a politician? I'd just as soon step on a cockroach before feeling any pity for the average corrupt and double dealing politician. Really, don't make me laugh before making such a suggestion in the future. I mean---what were you thinking anyway?
If they are irritated, as you say, then the rest of us are terrified because the economy is failing, misinformation abounds, unemployment is skyrocketing, hospitals are overrun with the sick and dying, businesses are faltering, equipment designed to save lives is in short supply, people are protesting to “reopen” the country despite the dangers, there is confusion at the highest levels of government and the President seem to have no clear cut or intelligent plan for coping with it at all. How much of this are we supposed to accept when all the President has to offer are daily press conferences which are rambling, incoherent, digressive and hostile to reporters whose job it is to relay the news to a terrified and confused public? Is THIS the best we can expect from our government whose responsibility it is to meet the challenge of coping with this crisis? Do you REALLY mean to suggest that we ought to simply bite the bullet and wait for them to get their act together?
To make matters worse, there is every reason to think that the virus will have a resurgence once the Winter arrives by which time as many as 100,000 fatalities may occur. Not to mention the chaos that will ensue once the November elections are upon us. Try to imagine the situation six months from now when things become even worse and public discontent and panic will reach an all time high. The thought is staggering and right now, NOBODY has a solution. No, my friend, what you are suggesting is that we simply allow the situation to degenerate until something truly dreadful happens. The ballot box is the only solution but I hasten to remind you that the very integrity of our electoral process is already at risk from the possibility of Russian intervention which has already undermined public confidence in our elected officials, something we can scarcely afford. Donald Trump was only elected because his opponent was hated and despised by so many people so as a consequence of that, we elected an ignorant, imperious plutocrat with no knowledge of and experience with public service and who, additionally, seems to have clear authoritarian tendencies which are anathema to a republic whose respect for due process and the rule of law is still the envy of many nations around the world. He has also diminished our status among our allies and has cheapened and degraded our image, upon which so many intangibles depend. His contempt for the rule of law, his blatant nepotism and his greed are by now legendary and are making this nation into a laughingstock which we can scarecly afford at this time. His cozying up to some of the worst tyrants on the planet---Putin, Erdogan, Duterte and Kim Jong Un----makes our commitment to democracy and the rule of law into a joke.
I do not care how irritated the politicians are because their job is to rise above the fray of confusion; meanwhile the President is pointing fingers at his critics while the death toll now surpasses 51,000 people and doctors, epidemiologist and microbiologists are alternately blamed or praised depending upon the president’s mood which vacillates between childish petulance and overweening arrogance which makes him unreliable at best and a potential tyrant at worst.
I believe that if Obama were still President, things might be just as bad as far as the pandemic goes but at best there would be somebody at the helm who would, at the very least, be competent and capable of providing the leadership that people expect at this time. He would not berate the press repeatedly nor would he behave so erratically thus undermining public confidence which, right now, is as big a problem as anything else. Trump's primary concerns appear to be (1) getting re-elected and (2) restarting the economy because he believes that this will maximize his chances of being re-elected (3) berating the press which he thinks is "fake news" and (4) attacking his critics and opponents without taking into account the damage that partisan infighting is doing to public confidence. Of course there are other factors involved but basically, he has proven that he is incapable of putting aside his petty grievances and offenses to his ego while neglecting the job for which he was elected in the first place. There have always been doubts about his fitness for office but now that the stakes are much higher and human lives are at stake, the United States can scarcely afford to have a man so temperamentally unsuited for the high office that he holds. He is incompetent and incapable of executing the functions of the presidency which calls for a much different personality than the one he exhibits on a daily basis to the people of this country.
I am sorry but my primary concern is NOT how “irritated” our elected officials have become---that goes with the job--- but rather, how to find a way out of this mess. Their job is to deal with this menace in a competent and timely fashion and right now, that should be their one and only concern. You have chided me before for my negativity which might be a legitimate concern in ordinary times but now, I think your priorities are misplaced. There is nothing wring with concerned citizens objecting to the performance of a president who has so blatantly disregarded the public good only to serve the needs of his own ego and ruthless ambition. Otherwise, why do we have a free press and a First Amendment by which people can voice their discontent and anxiety which, I hasten to remind you, are now reaching catastrophic proportions?
We expect and deserve much better from our elected officials and we are not getting it. How much longer must we wait? How many more people must die before something decisive and effective is done? If this is Donald Trump's "legacy," then the only sure remedy is his defeat in November.
This is something that I posted on David's thread about ten minutes ago. I sent it purely as a gesture of good will after hearing that his family was being tested for the signs of the virus, True to form, he deleted it almost instantly. Here it is, exactly as I composed it.
His response speaks volumes:
"I just went to David's thread for my daily dose of hatred and vitriol, and as usual, he seems unable to rid himself of his obsession with me and more to the point, he has the temerity to call a divergent opinion from his own 'hate speech,' thus putting his ignorance of First Amendment law on display for all to see. However, David, this post is an exception as I am voicing my concern for you and your family's health.
David, I will go into detail later on about your appalling ignorance of First Amendment law, but let me digress for a moment and wish you and your family good health and I was alarmed and distressed to hear about the health problems that they could be experiencing. I hope your daughter's mother-in-law's test comes back negative. The same applies to you and your daughter. If you have to stay "shelter in place," I hope you follow the instructions; as things stand right now, there is still a lot that we don't know about the virus, despite the dubious "knowledge" of your President.
You might be a horse's ass when it comes to your knowledge of the law and politics, but unlike YOU, I would never stoop so low as to wish this virus on ANYBODY, contrary to your vicious assertion to the contrary. Where I come from, people of character have too much class and respect for human life to ever say such a thing, even to their enemies.
And YOU have the effrontery to accuse ME of "hate speech"? What a towering hypocrite you really are---its appalling. I at least have the decency to wish you and your loved ones well, despite the HATE and vitriol you cast so willingly in MY direction.
I know that I vowed never to post on your thread again but in the matters of health and safety, even for YOUR sake, I am willing to make an exception. If I were really the bastard you seem to think I am, I wouldn't take the trouble to express my concern for you and your loved ones.
I won't post here any more unless it is for the sake of exceptional circumstances, such as this seems to be. I did this out of genuine concern of one human being to another. Beyond that, you are free to draw your own conclusions."
Angry Beaver: In Australia
As at 6:30am on 29 April 2020, there have been 6,738 confirmed cases of COVID-19 in Australia. There have been 13 new cases since 6:00am yesterday.
Of the 6,738 confirmed cases in Australia, 88 have died and 5,649 have been reported as recovered from COVID-19. More than 536,000 tests have been conducted across Australia.
Perhaps you should pay attention who your Democrat running for President. I'm way more ethical and have better morals than Joe. Another sexual assault complaint is credible. Again. You should pay way more attention to him and not me.
He's one sick bastard and then the queen endorses him. What a joke.
KeithJ: yea just like smelling anothers hair or such OH OH RAPE ,,,ASSAULT , ECT ECT,
,,,,BUT dump can "Grab them by the pussy" (quote ) dump one because they were getting old like himself ,,Stormy Daniels,,,and more ,,,but that's ok Mitch Daniels knows who is a so called christian and not a financial criminal right?
chronology: David, Her Majesty has not endorsed Mr Biden. The Queen would never become involved in American politics like that.
I tend to doubt that, too----it sounds like something the right wing press made up but that wouldn't be the first time, now, would it?
Beaver, by now you ought to know that what people call "hate speech" is just their way of identifying speech that THEY hate. Nothing more and nothing less. Its an old lawyer's trick: accusing the accuser. You will find very little on THIS thread that could justifiably be called "hate speech." I am pretty well versed in First Amendment law and the category of hate speech is relatively new in American jurisprudence and legal writings. In fact, it is somewhat fluid and hardly what you could call a "codified" body of laws and legislation.
I find it the height of cosmic irony when David chimes in with Biden’s alleged sexual impropriety because for a Trump supporter to defend women’s dignity and autonomy is like hearing Adolf Hitler extolling the virtues and character of the Jews.
Is he REALLY that blind to the irony of such a statement? Or has the drivel cranked out by Fox News actually caused him to become temporarily deranged?
Actually, I think he knows that the administrations bungled attempt to handle the COVID-19 pandemic will certainly be Trump's undoing in November. And don’t be bamboozled by his vicious assertion that Trump’s critics--Democrats, specifically-- WANT more people to contract the virus and die. David has said a shitload of ugly, libelous things about Democrats but THAT has to take the cake. And he has the consummate gall to accuse ME of "hate speech"?????
By the way, since David has a penchant for telling fantastic, bald faced lies, let me amend some of his more loathsome and grotesquely misinformed statements right now, two of which are glaringly stupid and inaccurate:
1. Contrary to his Hillary obsession which makes him delusional about the 2016 election, for the last time: I NEVER VOTED FOR HILLARY IN THE LAST ELECTION. He likes to THINK I did, but like the old song goes, “It ain’t necessarily so,” just to be accurate about that sort of thing. I have told him this time and time again, but like Trump whom he worships, he is marvelously impervious to facts and TRUTH. As I am fond of saying, for Trump, the truth is about as out of place as a bastard child at a family reunion.
2. I am not now, nor have I EVER BEEN a socialist or a collectivist of ANY kind. I am NOT a follower of Mao, Che Guevara, Lenin, Stalin, or ANY communist or socialist leader. It pleases his vanity to pose as a defender of capitalism but I hasten to point out that many nations on this planet DO have “mixed economies,” which is really a blend of quasi-socialist perks, the least of which are Medicare and Medicaid and capitalist elements. Unless he wants to destroy them all together, which the American people rely upon along with Obamacare—a target of his blistering hatred—I guess he will just have to learn to live with it.
And that’s it for now. I will offer occasional correctives to david’s manifold gaffes and mistakes on such matters and while I am willing to concede that I make mistakes in my factual statements—my recent error about Trump’s loathing for RADICAL ISLAM as one example—-David, in his towering arrogance and rigid dogmatism, refuses EVER to admit to making a mistake. It must be nice to be blessed with such godlike omnipotence but the rest of us mortals do not have that luxury. What else could you expect from an idiot with the effrontery to say that, “I alone can fix it.”?
I was immensely pleased to see that David posted something here but unlike HIM, I chose NOT to delete it. after all, it’s much more gratifying to demolish his arguments because I am opposed to censorship which David routinely practices on HIS thread. I will NEVER censor ANYTHING he posts because I believe in the free and open exchange of ideas opposed to my own. Unfortunately, David does not which is why he deletes practically ANYTHING that mildly criticizes his cruddy little deity, Donald Trump, perhaps the most flagrant and unrepentant LIAR ever to despoil our public life. David, if you actually will condescend to read ANYTHING between the covers of a real book, may I recommend John Stuart Mill’s essay entitled “On Liberty,” which will explain, quite clearly, the reason WHY it is important to allow opposing points of view on your thread. It might just teach you something about tolerance for a dissenting and opposing point of view. Right now, your thread has about as much tolerance for dissent as the latest issue of Pravda.
Have a great day and stay healthy—even YOU, David. The last time I extended my wishes for his safety along with that of his family, he threw it back in my face and added the phrase, “Go bite a dog’s ass,” a statement not without its own canine charm. However, let me add my own rejoinder to that, David, old boy: “Every dog has his day.”
And this one is all MINE. Don’t you love the irony of the whole affair?
Sandee57: From what I understand Trump isn't going to extend the social
distancing policy past April 30th. Which is today. I think
he will resume holding his rallies soon, if I had to guess.
Sandee57: The one thing that he is worried about more than the Virus or
anything else is his ratings. And this next election.
I have often seen Trump's rallies---populated by gaping primates in the red "MAGA" caps--more akin to Nazi bund rallies than anything else. If these benighted numbskulls are actually intent on going to such rallies at the height of the pandemic, then you know that many of them will get sick and, God forbid, die, which david actually believes that Democrats want, an assertion that is as wrong as it is vicious and insulting.
Trump should know better but I suppose that sacrificing a few lives of his worshippers is worth the cost. Still, as an example of reckless irresponsibility, even for Trump, this certainly takes the cake. Right now, I'd say his bungled attempt to handle the pandemic is done with all the skill of a teen-ager about to get laid for the first time by a hooker paid for by his shit of a father, which is probably just how Trump lost HIS virginity.
Well, so be it. I am firmly resolved to stay put and healthy until a vaccine is available which, according to the best scientific authorities, won't be for at least twelve to eighteen months. I place my belief in science and empirically verifiable evidence, contrary to the moronic assertions of Donald Trump who is right now the nation's first and foremost purveyor of "junk science," the only sort he can understand. I mean---whose scientific know how do you trust more: Mike Pence, who puts his faith in Jesus---or Dr. Fauci, an educated and highly respected scientist whose credentials are impeccable and whose knowledge of viruses and epidemiology puts Mike Pence to shame? The average Trump troglodyte might despise Dr. Fauci for being an "egghead'-- the common insult of uneducated boobs who can barely read the instructions on a tube of toothpaste but once they get sick with COVID-19--they'll find the Bible about as much use to them as a discarded condom.
Me, I place my faith in science and Trump can inject himself with Lysol while dosing himself with Hydroxychloroquine and then, we'll see just how reliable he is as a purveyor of junk science---if he survives, that is.
This is a reproduction of something I posted on david's thread which, no doubt, will be deleted as soon as he realizes its contents. But in the interest of literacy, erudition and intelligent rational discourse, I took the liberty of reproducing it here. I apologize for the chaotic and nearly incomprehensible nature of some of the language but by now you can hardly expect anything else from the average Trump supporter who despises education and book knowledge the same way that people with boorish manners despise those who are more refined and genteel in their general demeanor. The person who posted the word "chica boob" is no longer welcome on this thread but as he was one of those who alleged that I was guilty of child molestation in addition to running a kiddie porn ring, you can probably guess who the "author" was:, and I use the word "author" in its most loose and liberal application:
Sandee57: never heard of a chica boob.
1 hour ago
That's because you're not reading standard, comprehensible English that prevails throughout the civilized world. You know, as a professional educator for thirty years--who, by the way, contrary to david's suggestions that I used my position to 'indoctrinate" my students with left wing propaganda---all I ever did was try to instill in them a respect for the written word and a love of literature, regardless of its ideological leanings and looking over some of the posts here, I can see that whoever else was charged with the same responsibility, had failed miserably. Universal education does not necessarily suggest universal literacy.
Well, there's no way to make other people accountable for that job but I guess under the circumstances, this will have to do. But remember Ezra Pound's (the poet) admonition about language and its effects on politics: He once wrote "Sloppy language corrupts government."
He had no idea how correct he was.
(Edited by Echolegacy)
20 minutes ago
Sandee57: lol I suppose, glad I didn't google it
18 minutes ago
Hahahahahha, yes indeed!
9 minutes ago
Interesting comment ECHo posted. He said, "...The person who posted the word "chica boob" is no longer welcome on this thread..."
First, let's just take a look at each word.
The definition of chica is a Spanish word that means a female friend or girl.
Boob, we all know what that is except ECHO. It is a breast.
So, ECHO has now posted that the person who posted the words chica boob is no longer welcome.
Now that's what I call free speech from a person who is a racist for even thinking that those words are inappropriate, and banning them from his thread.
Maybe ECHO should have listened to his students over the 30+ years he was indoctrinating children.
This is a typical left-wing socialist comment. Now, if he wants to call Joe Biden unacceptable to be President for being a sexual predator, then he might be on to something.
But to threaten someone's free speech because he does not like the entirety of his post, that's called being a communist.
Welcome comrade ECHOski. How's your buddy Putin doing today?
What an idiot.
This is to davidk1:
Thank you for the best laugh I have had in days. The pandemic certainly keeps people bored, but when somebody like YOU has the gall to misappropriate and distort the English language so flagrantly, it’s time for an educated person to step in and try to remediate the spread of idiocy, which has infected the morons who worship Donald Trump who, I can almost guarantee, will lose the election because of his bungled attempts to first, dismiss the pandemic as a "hoax," courtesy of Jared Kushner, and second, after he realized that 51,000 fatalities can hardly be called a "success". He has finally woken up to the fact that ordinary Americans dying by the thousands is worthy of his fragmented and disjointed attention. Of course, watching TV seven hours a day in order to assuage an overinflated ego is par for the course if you're talking about a flaccid, overweight, rock stupid right-wing crypto-fascist swine, but for the President of the United States that simply won't do.
David, you are what the Russians like to call Trump: "a useful idiot," which suggests that even a mental defective has his uses for those who seek to exploit him. Now, onto your staggering ignorance. First, to call somebody a "Communist" merely because they have the effrontery to disagree with you is the sort of mistake that only a fanatical ideologue would make. It also tells me that if you had been alive during the McCarthy witch hunts, you would have been right there, kissing "Tail Gunner” Joe's fat ass and demanding that people like Dalton Trumbo and the other screenwriters who had been smeared so viciously should have been put to death. Of this much, I am entirely certain.
As for the use of the word “chica,” well, I know many things, but a working knowledge of Spanish, as Sandra correctly pointed out, is not one of them. As for banning the person who called me and Chronology child molesters and the owners of a kiddie porn ring, I think that any reasonable person might have reacted the same way. However, since you are neither reasonable nor in possession of common decency, I cannot expect you to react as any normal person would. When I first posted the rules and regulations of my thread, I was quite explicit about what I would and would NOT tolerate: calling me a child molester and a purveyor of kiddie porn would certainly fall into that category. If you do not approve of that, well, that only proves how corrupted by your own hatred you really are. You are free to post on my thread if you abide by my rules, which, thankfully, you have done so far. You see, David, I really DO believe in free speech but as a wise man once said, “Liberty is not license,” meaning that even free speech has its limitations. Slander and libel are not allowed on MY thread; if they are so appealing to you, then post them on YOUR thread but do not presume to think that you can parrot such disgusting allegations HERE. This IS my thread and allegations and smears of that sort simply will not do. If you do not like that, then post elsewhere where hate speech is not only permitted but openly endorsed. I banned the person who used the word “chica” not because I am a racist—the irony of a Trump supporter daring to call somebody a racist is staggering—but the reason had nothing to do with that. So, your spurious charge of “racism” is not only wrong, it is one more of many lies at which you seem so adept at cranking out with distressing alacrity. To call ME a racist after being a servile apologist for Trump's disgusting bigoted epithets after all this time is not only hypocritical, it is a masterpiece of chutzpah that you dredged up from that foul rag and bone shop you call a brain.
Speech might be free, David, but its NOT free of consequences. This unpleasant episode has proven that but unfortunately since your intelligence is shockingly limited this abstruse concept might well be beyond your grasp. However, I find it fascinating that you are somehow locked in a time warp where the word “Communist” (which you have still failed to define correctly) is your version of a towering insult. If it were not so laughably idiotic it might be insulting. However, I learned a long time ago that while ignorance of basic facts might be curable, stupidity is not. You, sir, are simply too stupid to realize that using the word “Communist” as one might use gutter language to insult somebody makes you look not only ridiculous but disastrously uninformed as well. You like that word because of its negative connotations but literate and well-read people are not flustered by that sort of verbal terrorism. I am one of those people so if you really wish to insult me try using something which is not taken from the lexicon of red baiting fanatics from the mid 1950’s.
By the way, if it is the undue influence of Russians on our electoral process that you find so offensive how come you failed to mention the proven interference of the Russians on our last election, which clearly benefited Donald Trump, eh? Perhaps because it hit just a little too close to home for your comfort and convenience. Or are you going to deny the obvious truth of Russian influence on the 2016 election?
Of course you will because you are a lying, dishonest son of a bitch. That is why. But I also want to add one last item that goes right to the heart of what has you so irked.
You know that Trump is probably going to LOSE the election in November and that is what galls you beyond all human endurance. Of course, I have no crystal ball that confirms this but I think by now that the American people have simply had enough of Donald Trump’s ineptitude, his flagrant lies, his moral corruption and his ignorance of and contempt for the rule of law and THAT is what really has put a seed under your dentures, old man. Makes it hard to take, doesn’t it?
I am done with you and please, feel free to post more lies and grotesque misinterpretations of my words to your heart’s delight on my thread. Unlike YOU, I DO NOT censor people for their political views; only for their vicious and unfounded attempts at slander such as came from a person who shall go nameless although you know EXACTLY who—and what--he really is: a libelous son of a bitch who will never be forgiven for alleging that I and Chronology are child molesters. I thought that you, as a father yourself, might have appreciated my outrage if not actually endorsed it but once again, I grossly underestimated your own moral corruption.
Have fun watching Trump’s ratings go down the toilet. I know its been utterly thrilling to watch.
Regardless of your hate speech—at which you certainly seem to excel--I wish you good health and hope that you live long enough to watch Trump’s devastating defeat in November. I can hardly wait.