Can A Country Protect Their Citizens By Building A Wall or Fences?
WonderWoman1: When the Berlin Wall was torn down a quarter-century ago, there were 16 border fences around the world.
Today, there are 65 either completed or under construction. Is erecting barrier works or it just divides people around the world?
Zanjan: The people are already divided if they even think about a wall.
Historically, no man-made wall has ever been fully successful; the best any have done is temporarily hold the fort and ONLY if well- armed sentries are posted at intervals, within eyesight, along the top of the wall, shooting anything that moves. Even so, every wall was eventually breached or obviated by a hoard of determined men.
However, there's no defense against a wall of water. On the cheap, global warming is doing that. Better to build an Ark.
WonderWoman1: @ ark🤣..
Well our government was shut down because of the "wall" . That must be some kind of wall they are talking about.
The Craftsman: Short answer. No. The wall wasn't even Trump's idea. It was cooked up by his advisors early in his campaign to find a trigger to rally his xenophobic base and talk about illegal immigration. Trump didn't even like the idea at first, but to his surprise, it worked. Now it's snowballed into a campaign promise he's desperately trying to fulfill and get a win. It divides this country and is nothing more than a dog whistle for racists. Right out of Putin's playbook
Zanjan: If memory serves, didn't Trump promise he'd make the Mexicans pay for the wall? Maybe if his base realized they'd have to pocket the expense, they wouldn't have been so yahoo about it.
The Craftsman: Yes, but now he's back pedalled that saying the new trade deal with Mexico will pay for the wall. Several problems with that, first the new deal hasn't gone into effect yet. Second, it doesn't add tariffs to imports from Mexico. So where is this new money coming from thru this new trade deal? The promise of new jobs and higher wages for u.s. workings. So . . . u.s. taxpayers are paying for the wall.
TastyLittleNymph: I have mixed feelings and thoughts about this! Every other nation secures it's border...Every nation. Why should we be any different? People also tend to forget...other nations are not like ours! I'm not against Immigration....done legally! I am against people crossing our borders under the cover of darkness...without being vetted first! A lot of these countries people are fleeing...do not have the vaccination systems in place we do, Which means they could be carrying diseases...we eradicated..decades ago! Diseases we have no built immunity against! Several years ago there was a caravan of children found on the USA Border. They took these children, placed them into foster homes and into our Public Schools...Without vetting them first...Without checking to see if they could potentially be carrying a communicable disease! As a direct result...American children started getting sick....struck with a illness very much like Polio...which was Paralyzing and killing them! It caused an outbreak....which could have been prevented...Had they vetted these children first! Any potential Immigrant coming from another country....needs to be medically vetted....for the protection of the people! Also What makes these people more worthy of entry...than those who have done it legally? To me...these people sneaking in under cover of darkness....and gaining a spot within the USA....Is a slap to the face of every Man, Woman, and Child who has done it legally! Just as our ancestors before us....did it legally...and lets not forget...a lot of the situations our Ancestors faced...are just as dire as the situations these people currently face...Yet they did not rush our borders, throwing rocks at those they are seeking to join! Did not resort to violence...to get their ways! Did not demanded we change our ways to accommodate them! They did not demand we learn their language to communicate with them! They learned the language spoken here! They Act as if they are Entitled to be on this Soil, when they truth is....they are no more special than those who actually did it legally! Also...We have Veterans and children in our own nation...Who are homeless...We have children who are food insecure. Parents working multiple jobs....and still failing to keep a roof over their heads! If they did not come here through legal ports, If they have not been vetted medically...They should not be here!!! Like I said...I'm NOT against Immigration...but I am against people who place a whole population of people at risk...because they think they are more special than the people who have done it legally! How would you feel...If you immigrated here legally...Went through everything required of you to gain citizenship...and your neighbor...snuck in under the cover of darkness, and immediately gains everything you had to work your fanny off to obtain...Wouldn't you feel unhappy? Don't get me wrong...My heart goes out to a lot of these people...the situations they face are horrid...but so weren't Millions before them, their situations just a horrific! We have rules for a reason...and they do need to be followed...Its a matter of Safety....because not all nations vaccinate as we do...and a lot of nations still have diseases running rampant...we have eradicated! The current shut down...Is because its now 2019...The wall was a campaign promise, and Trump Fears..If he does not get that wall up and started before the next election...he fears he will not be re elected!His two biggest promises were 1) I'm going to build a wall...and Mexico will pay for it ( Yet they are NOT paying for it) 2) He was going to get rid of the ACA , and the mandated fine...for not having health Insurance....he's failed to date..on both! This shut down is a pissing match...between adults...who are acting more like toddlers, than actual adults! Who put what they want, before what the American people want, and need! Honestly...it disgust's me!!! If any of us were to pull this crap in our jobs...Well we'd be terminated on the spot and our replacements would be in our spots the next Morning...performing to the job we just lost!!! The division between us...just keeps growing! We are pitting ourselves one against another...Not seeming to realize...the other person is merely trying to survive..Like we are. Blaming each other...for things that point blank...ARE the fault of OUR GOVERNMENT!!! We should be placing the blame with them...Not our fellow Citizens....they were not the ones who created these laws....they exempt themselves from...Yet feck us with! No my brothers and sisters are not the problem! The problem is ...We have a Decayed system...which has turned into a Parasite...which is bleeding us dry! The only way this is going to change....is if we finally come to understand...the other citizen's of this country...are not our enemies...by realizing they didn't do this...any more than we did! Until we unite as one...and send a clear message of..We are done allowing you to use us against each other! By saying we are allies and they are the enemy...well they will continue to play us one against the other...All while laughing hysterically....cause when we fight with one another....It allows them to screw us....cause we are a distracted and divided population...and they bank on that!! We play into their hands...every single time we fight with each other!!!
WonderWoman1: Well if you look at history, we stole and killed a lot of Natives and Mexicans and took this country violently and forcefully from them. It really doesn't matter what century or when it happened the fact is it's not really ours. Even now, we bully China, North Korea, Middle East and other small countries and bomb citizens abroad and America gets away with it. I think diseases is nothing compared to the bombs that we dropped to innocent civilians and children abroad.... I also agreed to you Nymph but to tear gassed children and abused them is against human rights.
WonderWoman1: I am really against the wall Nymph, because it divides the world. I truly believed that no matter what country we came from we need to protect women and children around the world. We the women in the Western World should be the one protecting them. To see hunger and hopelessness in those mother and children. I hate to say this but let the women inside the border, forget the men. 😎
Zanjan: Maybe it's time to wake up to the fact that what's going on in the world is an unprecedented mass human migration. This is the fault of MANKIND and it's failure to step up to the responsibility of caring for the members of our species.
I don't feel sorry for the USA - it's not the least bit special. Instead, I'm proud of those European countries who stepped up to the plate and rescued dying/drowning migrants in their desperation.
Despite limited funds and no jobs available, these countries gave them ALL free food and shelter, no questions asked - men, women and children, who'd not applied for immigration because they were on the run - the refugees simply landed there, what was left of them alive. None of them wanted to die but they were willing to risk that, considering the alternative.
These countries worked hard TOGETHER to distribute hundreds of thousands of people to various locations so no single spot would be totally overwhelmed. They do have fences but OPENED THEIR ARMS out of love and compassion.
America has lost its heart and complains over just a couple thousand people, yet it is nowhere near as dense in population or small in area as those European countries. For some reason, it just can't duplicate the ideas and efforts of the Europeans by providing safe passage through its corridors.
That it refuses to take any of the European overburden of humanity either just makes me sadly shake my head. Back when I was young, they used to take Asian and Cuban boat people but no more. Today, it's only response to this tragedy is "Mine, Mine, Mine!".
This is what history records. I'll tell you this much, this isn't an age where one can hole up forever, nor will there be any place left to run. It's time to man up.
(Edited by Zanjan)
TastyLittleNymph: I have been watching all of this closely. I do research. I've read about Border patrol, and those who attempt to cross at weak points in our borders. I've gone to various news agencies covering that Caravan of people who were traveling the border. A lot of News Media Outlets are claiming its mainly Women and Children in that Caravan, Yet the actual video footage of it....says something different! Yes..there are a FEW women and children in that Caravan..While traveling...they are pushed to the very back of the group...and only pulled forward to the front...When they get towards a Border! So that if there is Violence at the Border...Its those Women and Children...who are injured! Its made up of more men..than women and children! Between the ages of 18-50. They are willing to sacrifice women and children...to gain their objective...Do we really want men on our soil...Who thinks women and children are expendable...to get what they want? Like i said...I don't have a issue with people legitimately Immigrate , or seek Asylum. These men sneaking over our borders...Well if they are willing to resort to violence to get where...what are they capable of when they get here? My heart goes out to these women and kids...I have no issues with women and kids fleeing war torn area's to seek a better life..We do not turn away those who do it legally....but those men..the ones who think its ok to turn Women and Children into targets...so long as it benefits them...No I don't want them here...If they are willing to fight us to gain entry...let them fight at home to take back their country! We fought to make this nation what it is...What we wanted...They are capable of doing the same thing! Also..why not immigrate into nearby countries to them? who are not war torn...Why must it be USA?
TastyLittleNymph: We are not the only countries with freedoms! Yet why must we take them all? Why can't they immigrate into other countries with the same freedoms we have?
Zanjan: Maybe you missed the part where those countries are already overburdened, having helped more than their fair share. Also you might not understand that refugees leave with the clothes on their back - if they had money to buy passage elsewhere, they would have done so.
TastyLittleNymph: Yet they manage to get from there...to the USA...which is a greater distance than a lot of these other countries! I didn't miss any part! Some countries take them...and others deny them...Some countries refuse them out right! If we as a Nation have to step up and save people...other countries should be as well...and hell aren't we over populated as well? Don't we have Veteran's who are homeless? Children too? We have kids here...Who go to bed hungry every night! We cannot take care of our own...but sure...lets bleed money , we don't have...For others!
Zanjan: Walking is the most ancient form of travel - humans came out of Africa that way because money hadn't been invented yet. Then came small boats but those were only for the skilled and the strong. The sea is unforgiving so, they kept the shorelines in sight.
As long as a country can feed itself, it's not over-populated. In North America, there are great expanses of unpopulated land, outside of National and State Parks. No, we dont have homeless children; we have homeless adults by their own choosing because they have mental disturbances.
I don't see why we need to compare ourselves to know, inwardly, what the right thing is to do. Some do wrong, some do good, and some just don't give a crap - how do you want your own reputation to go down?
The USA has been very generous in giving money to developing and troubled countries - it's called sharing the wealth. (wealth it doesn't actually have but ok). However, not every issue is solved by throwing money at it, as you, yourself, testify.
(Edited by Zanjan)
TastyLittleNymph: What someone else thinks of me, Is their Opinion and not a reflection of who I actually am! Yes...We do have homeless children in the USA...I've seen them personally! Not one person gives a crap about them...or the fact they go hungry! We have people screaming save the children...While they are in the womb...then those same people are...Can't afford a kid....shouldn't have had one! I simply think we should be caring for those we already have here....before we add more people..Add more people....so more people can live in Poverty? We are trillions of dollars in debt....and we spend more than 26 countries combined on defense....How about all that money we spend in foreign aid? Whats the use in that....if people are going to just come here to live? We do not have a money tree we can shake....and money falls out of it...It comes out of our blood sweat and Tears. It comes from the sacrifices we make! Sorry don't ask me to save someone else...when we're already drowning!
WonderWoman1: 🎤We don't need no🎵 education
We dont need no 😎thought control🎤🎶
No dark sarcasm in the classroom, 🎤🎶
Teachers👋 leave them kids alone🎤🎶🎹
Hey! Teachers! Leave them kids alone!🎧🎸
All in all it's just another brick in the 🧱🎼🎺
All in all Trump is just another prick in the 🧱...
In short as Nova said in Politics Room... Trump is just another prick in🎶🎼.. the 🧱wall... 😎
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Kiss__: No wall or fence will stop them... Human nature they will always find a way to get in if they want...
Super Esquire: Like I say, we need a wall with a door on it so ppl can come and go, and we can kinda keep an eye on who is coming in. I know the wall isnt the be all end all but it can add a degree of deterrance and security
briansmythe: Security how much security do yo want . Already running around half the world hunting So called terrorists. Mabye thats the problem. A wall isnt like a house. Theres a saying if your prepared to do it to other people how do you know it wont be done to you