Viva Catalonia (Page 2) ghostgeek: Open a history book and one thing becomes plain. Empires wax and empires wane. It happened to Spain. It happened to England. It will also happen to the United States of America. It just requires time.  chronology: Sorry ghost, still don't buy your argument. Ask yourself why Russia sold Alaska to the U.S.A. in 1867. At that time the Union had just come out of the Civil War you speak of and was the most powerful nation in the Western Hemisphere. The American 'Military Industrial Complex' had just been demonstrated to the world for the first time. It's awsome destructive power plain to see. But Russia quite literally hands the keys to it's back door over to Washington without batting an eyelid. Russian Diplomats were singing the praises of Americans as 'fine honest trustworthy people' . The reason for all this lavish praise of America was Russia was gambling on the United States acting as a peace keeping force between them and the British Empire in Canada. France and Britain could have attacked Russia on two fronts, France in the West and Britain in the East through Canada. With the U.S. Army and Navy keeping the potential warring sides apart it was a perfect arrangement for Moscow. Russians are no fools, they would never have trusted Washington unless they considered it wise to do so.  briansmythe: Laxish praise lol , Yeah well regardless who started it , This mighty Americian Indrustrial complex , Cant beat Afganistian , Mabye Afgaians are No fools lol briansmythe: Nope overstepped your mark , Now Nth korea can smell the blood there like a shark circleing , there pray ghostgeek: Hard-right Russian nationalists are mourning the 150th anniversary of the sale of Alaska to the US, with some calling for the territory to be returned. [ http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/russia-nationalists-want-alaska-sold-us-150-years-later-a7659941.html ] ghostgeek: Russians started to settle in Alaska in 1784, from where it set up trading posts and carried out missionary work. By the 1860s, Russia had lost the Crimean War and was in a difficult financial position. The Czar feared losing its American territory without any compensation and decided to make a deal with the US. [ http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/russia-nationalists-want-alaska-sold-us-150-years-later-a7659941.html ] ghostgeek: For starters, the colony was no longer profitable after the sea otter population was decimated. Then there was the fact that Alaska was difficult to defend and Russia was short on cash due to the costs of the war in Crimea. [ https://theconversation.com/why-russia-gave-up-alaska-americas-gateway-to-the-arctic-74675 ] ghostgeek: In the 1840s, the United States had expanded its interests to Oregon, annexed Texas, fought a war with Mexico and acquired California. Afterward, Secretary of State Seward wrote in March 1848: “Our population is destined to roll resistless waves to the ice barriers of the north, and to encounter oriental civilization on the shores of the Pacific.” [ https://theconversation.com/why-russia-gave-up-alaska-americas-gateway-to-the-arctic-74675 ] ghostgeek: For their part, Alaska Natives claimed that they still had title to the territory as its original inhabitants and having not lost the land in war or ceded it to any country – including the U.S., which technically didn’t buy it from the Russians but bought the right to negotiate with the indigenous populations. Still, Natives were denied U.S. citizenship until 1924, when the Indian Citizenship Act was passed. During that time, Alaska Natives had no rights as citizens and could not vote, own property or file for mining claims. The Bureau of Indian Affairs, in conjunction with missionary societies, in the 1860s began a campaign to eradicate indigenous languages, religion, art, music, dance, ceremonies and lifestyles. It was only in 1936 that the Indian Reorganization Act authorized tribal governments to form, and only nine years later overt discrimination was outlawed by Alaska’s Anti-Discrimination Act of 1945. The law banned signs such as “No Natives Need Apply” and “No Dogs or Natives Allowed,” which were common at the time. [ https://theconversation.com/why-russia-gave-up-alaska-americas-gateway-to-the-arctic-74675 ] ghostgeek: From what I can see, there has been nothing particularly noble about the way Americans have acted for most of the United States's existence. Just the behaviour of a colonial power, like all the others. chronology: Well ghost Old Chap, I can only sigh at your cynical view of other people. I still assert the population of the South West North America welcomed like a rich gift the prospect of joining the United States of America. They did so and have enjoyed all the benefits of American life. No one went there and conqured them. Alaska was a serious weak point in Russian defences back then. They needed an honest and trustworthy nation to manage the Territory for them, they found such a partner in the U.S.A. During WW2 the Americans paid for tens of thousands of Aid flights by aircraft to Russia via Alaska. It would be sad indeed if Russians forgot this act of benevolence by Americans. In England in the 1960s there were still signs on some boarding houses that said 'No Dogs, No Blacks, No Irish' . Yes ghost, people can be very unkind, 'people' can be. America was among the first countries ever to legally outlaw such discrimination. Good progress has to start somewhere, and America is usually where it started. briansmythe: Yeah it came out of the States but it was the black people themselves not us gov it spead here with the aborigines they still hold in trust the native americans land dont they at least the aborigines got some land back .Its all subjective (Edited by briansmythe) ghostgeek: If I'm correct, America spends the most on defense. That suggests that America has either much to fear, or the rest of the world has much to fear. chronology: ghost, the human race is a puzzeling thing indeed, but one thing we do know is that people are unpredictable, and often volatile. It does not take much to stir people up. So for the time being America needs the best weapons money can buy to keep safe in a dangerous world. Britain also needs a nuclear deterent and a decent defence system. The Empire may be long gone, but people often have selective memories about who was right and wrong in a past dispute, but the prospect of being nuked if they ever got too aggressive tends to calm them down a little. It would be great if people could just live in peace with 'bygones are bygones' sadly people are not like that. briansmythe: Nope overstepped your mark that's when Empires start to slowly decline  (Edited by briansmythe) | Politics Chat Room 80 People Chatting Similar Conversations |