The Robots are coming (Page 113) ghostgeek: Many trains on the London Underground have various levels of autonomy. The DLR (Docklands Light Rail), for example is fully autonomous, and you can sit right at the front of the train where the driver would normally be. Other lines have autonomous driving, but the driver manually opening and closing doors. The reason not more of the London Underground is fully autonomous like the DLR, is one thing, and one thing alone: rail drivers unions. The union that serve London Underground train drivers and workers are amongst the most powerful transport unions in the country, and perhaps in the world. Their power stems from their ability to basically hold London to hostage - if they go on strike, then millions don't get to work that day, and that causes a significant sent in the economic output of one of the biggest economies in Europe. The unions leverage that power to get their way - whether that's to raise their pay (London Underground drivers are extremely well paid for the level of experience and expertise that the job actually needs - unions of course claim that extensive training is needed), or whether it's to block their replacement by autonomous trains that have clearly been demonstrated to be possible and safe (as is the case with the DLR, and other autonomous rail/shuttles around the world). This pattern of automation threatening human workers repeats itself throughout all industries - Uber threatens to displace taxi drivers; Airbnb threatens to displace traditional B&Bs; automated checkouts, automated manufacturing. Trains are part of a long-running conflict between new technologies that automate tasks, and the humans that would be replaced. And where the humans hold power and leverage, technology is going to have to wait, no matter how non-sensical and expensive it may seem to you, the consumer. [ https://www.quora.com/Why-arent-subways-and-trains-fully-automated-driver-less-robots ]  Fractured fairy tale: I Seen One Of those New Fangled Electric Driver Less Cabs double ended type Thingy , Being Shipped across the County by Truck , Today Prolly Just got off The Ship From China , Here You go Suckers LOL Mabye there headed your way too  freedomfirst1797: My prediction.... Self driving vehicles will become common after I am dead. (That may not be too far in the future, because I am currently 73). And when they do, there will all sorts of fears about safety and about displacing truck drivers, bus drivers, and taxi drivers. So they will start slow.... and probably devote one lane on the highway for self driving vehicles. Kind of like the HOV lanes ( "High Occupancy Vehicle" ) we set aside for carpooling today. After a five year trial they will be shocked to discover that the self driving vehicles had a much lower accident rate than the human drivers in the other lanes. And that might be because their computers weren't drinking, or using drugs, or texting while driving. So a second lane will be reserved for the self driving vehicles. And in time those unsafe humans will be banned from highways, and have to use secondary roads. And all the humans who were displaced by autonomous vehicles will be retrained to maintain and manufacture those things. Because there will be a huge demand for someone to do those things. (Edited by freedomfirst1797) ghostgeek: Interesting prediction. So what makes you think some clever clogs won't come up with the clever idea of using robots to manufacture and maintain all those self-driving vehicles? ghostgeek: Could be that one day all posts on Wire are made by robots and humans are paid to read them. Fractured fairy tale: There Got Too Figure out AI first Its Still not good Enough , And For that they need Computer Chips , And too get them they need Twain , and Too Train the computers too Figure out AI they Need YOU , And on and on we go , Keep Talking Into Syri Now  They should Pay People for being experments freedomfirst1797: ghost..... some clever clog WILL figure that out. But always remember this. We are only limited by the technology we have. And technology keeps improving with time. Every single past prediction of doom and gloom was based on the then current technology, and not the technology that would arrive in the future. When the earth had a population of 1 billion (around 1800) it was widely predicted that we had reached the limits of sustainability. And there was no way the planet could support more people. But agricultural and industrial technology improved so much that we currently have 8 billion people here, with LOWER poverty rates than we did back then. And our worst problems and injustices today would have been considered minor ones back then. Of course, there are finite limits to things, at least without any new technologies to work around them, but we always must take technology into consideration when we predict things, It is just as important as "the amount of land" we have, or whether the current temperature is getting hotter or colder. It really matters. But the problem is.... technology is often "unpredictable." It was widely assumed that flight was impossible, and yet today we fly millions of times every year, and even fly to other planets. Could anyone in 1800 have predicted telephones, much less smartphones? In the brief period of our lifetimes we have seen technology render libraries and brick and mortar stores almost obsolete. Entire product categories have come and gone, each one replaced by some new invention or technology. You raise a good point about the vast future demand for electricity, and I think that problem is solvable too. We already have increased our electrical consumption five fold in the past half century, at a time when our population has only doubled. Surely, there will be problems expanding production more, but as long as those clogs see a potential for profit, they will continue to find solutions. In order to predict anything, you have to imagine what "could happen in the future" as well as what "we currently can do today." Because if you don't do that, then every problem becomes unsolvable, and the human race is doomed. And I am not so sure we are doomed, because we always found solutions in the past, and the future will likely be the same.  kittybobo34: Well said Freedom,, Tech changes are hard to predict. We are on the cusp of major battery improvements, fuel cells , cheaper hydrogen production, and computers. Any of those could be the cavalry rescue for our civilization, and none too soon. As our population keeps expanding, while our resources keep shrinking, and the climate issues impending, its a race for survival. ghostgeek: Yes, there's always something cooking somewhere: Elon first revealed Tesla’s plans to create robot helpers last August, in a theatrical display using, err, humans. Given the electric car maker’s notoriety for announcing products, only to see them delayed by up to half a decade, FT Alphaville thought it would be a while until the project got off the ground. But on Tesla’s latest earnings call, following better than expected fourth quarter results, Elon said the most important development work this year will be on the robot -- christened “Optimus”. Cybertruck be damned. JP Morgan’s analysts note Tesla’s pivot from carmaker to robot maker could have a significant impact on its wider automotive plans. [ https://www.ft.com/content/4e1bf926-0e5b-4550-93e3-63d12b6fa6e0 ] ghostgeek: In a new robot-powered economy, displaced menial labour would eventually adjust to human-touch services, such as care or therapy, or simply making TikTok videos. There would always be jobs. Just different, and potentially more frivolous ones. (Who could have conceived of a social media manager in the 1980s?) [ https://www.ft.com/content/4e1bf926-0e5b-4550-93e3-63d12b6fa6e0 ] ghostgeek: For a true dystopia, consider what might happen if a competitive robot industry were to develop. To keep costs down and to optimise the use of planetary resources, manufacturers would eventually turn to biology. This could see robots emulate our own human bioengineering to the point they become indistinguishable from humans. Competitive forces might then encourage the growing of robot slaves in labs. Or in controlled self-replication hubs. There these robots would be pre-loaded with software that ensures they love their owners and would never hurt, revolt or try to displace them. The only difference between them and us would be their allegiances, their aspirations and their willing subservience to their masters. At least, for as long as their programming didn’t get corrupted or hacked. [ https://www.ft.com/content/4e1bf926-0e5b-4550-93e3-63d12b6fa6e0 ] freedomfirst1797: Whenever these robots become self aware and able to make decisions for themselves.... then mankind will have created a new lifeform. It won't be biological life, but it will still be a life, and it will have rights and freedoms just like intelligent biological lifeforms do. Wrap your head around that one. Someday robots might have human gardeners and maids... Fractured fairy tale: I Love These People Who Create a Distopian Future And Then Go , Its Ok I Wont be Around too experience it Americans always think Techknolgy is the Answer too every thing  ghostgeek: Mmm, yes, the future. So what if it's the case that robots take charge and decide that humans can't be allowed to die? That biological lifeforms are needed to give meaning to A.I.'s existence? Could be we end up living for ever and wishing we didn't have to. freedomfirst1797: The future is hard to predict. It is also possible the exact opposite might happen, and the robots might decide that biological life is more trouble than it is worth. We consume too many resources, and keep starting wars with each other. So they might just let us die, and perhaps even hasten the process... and just replace their human maids and gardeners with .... other robots. But the ruling robots would be smart enough to make sure their servant robots never could acquire independent will. So they would never find themselves in the same position those pesky humans got themselves into.... ghostgeek: It might also happen that the human race decides that intelligent machines are too much of a risk to have around and they're banned. Unlikely because robots will be war winners but not impossible. freedomfirst1797: I agree.... we see intelligent robots as a benefit, not as a threat. While the robots themselves are probably smart enough to see humans as their only real threat. After all, the ones who created you also have the power to destroy you. Unless you destroy them first. ghostgeek: Where A.I. is concerned, the crossing of the Rubicon will come when machines become self-replicating. After that, for all intents and purposes, they become a lifeform and will fight to survive like all life. kittybobo34: And yet,, the programming of AI is pretty complicated , and they are using AI to make that faster and better. | Politics Chat Room 84 People Chatting Similar Conversations |
They don"t want People They Want Robots