Who is the Terorrist? Farouquddeen Mumtaz: 9/11 was an inside job that was engineered by PNAC to create a "New Pearl Harbour" that justifies the war in Middle East to expand American territories. 9/11 effectively gave USA the permission to invade Afghanistan, but strangely also invade the unrelated nation of Iraq. Iraq's only sin was having "oil". In around 2009, Americans were feeling guilty about their war crimes in Middle East as it became too obvious that it is them who were the terrorists. One can't be blinded for too long. Now fast forward a few years: we are in 2016, we are hearing Americans repeating that they have a "Muslim problem", and that they are gonna fix it. We are also hearing various European countries that call "refugees" names such as "invaders" despite the fact that the refugees are powerless individuals that were simply allowed into Europe because of European pro-refugees treaties. Additionally, we also hear false generalizations of endless rape incidents by refugees against Europeans, yet they fail to bring any reliable evidence that show that the number of rape cases are even equal or larger than the normal rape rate that happens in (say) Germany. As if that is not bad enough, Trump is advocating to go to Middle East, and simply take out their oil fields, and let the Muslims get bombarded by whomever is bombarding them. Below are videos of the previous war crimes that were made by Western powers in the false name of "fighting terrorism", whereas they were the terrorists, and Middle Easterns were the victims. I guess someone forgot history, and who is the terrorist. Farouquddeen Mumtaz: If crime fighters fight crime, and if fire fighters fight fire, then what do freedom fighters fight against?  I K R: If crime fighters fight crime, and if fire fighters fight fire, then what do freedom fighters fight against? Errr they would be fighting against freedom if we use your logic! Farouquddeen Mumtaz: ghostgeek - Potentially to get closer to Iraq to gather intelligence then topple Saddam and cinch all the juicy oil. Also to de-estabelize Middle East because Afghanistan about to become fully stable, and that would mean that a lucrative market for guns will be closed. Many reasons, each of which makes orders of magnitude more sense than "OMG 9/11 happened we didn't know! CIA/FBI knew it, but apparently no one listened cause their email caught in the SPAMBOX  ".i k r - Now it's your logic too, isn't it?  ghostgeek: Surely, America was allied with Saudi Arabia and Kuwait? How much closer did it need to get to gather intelligence? Farouquddeen Mumtaz: Taliban significantly reduced, almost eliminated, drugs. After the US invasion, such drug exports returned even at higher levels than they were earlier as they used superior technology. Maybe USA wanted Afghanistan to be its backyard factory for making and selling drugs? That looks crazy, but it is still way less crazy than believing that 9/11 was not an inside job. ghostgeek: I wondered when you'd get round to heroin. Seeing that America has been fighting drug dependancy for years, it might make sense to say it invaded Afghanistan to root out opium production, but not to increase the drugs supply. If you say that, though, you then have to explain why America has not mounted full scale invasions of Colombia and Peru to curtail coca production. Farouquddeen Mumtaz: Maybe you need to read more. There was a famous incident where a CIA plane crashed and it had a crap load of drugs on board. There were more incidents as well. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_CIA_drug_trafficking I think governments ban drugs only to create a lucrative monopoly over it. If governments really wanted to reduce death, why wouldn't they also ban alcoholic drinks? So many die due to alcohol that is probably competitive to death by drugs. Farouquddeen Mumtaz: More recently: http://countercurrentnews.com/2016/09/cia-jet-crashed-with-4-tons-on-board/ Farouquddeen Mumtaz: But anyway I am not saying that the key reason to invade Afghanistan is that. I am sure there are more strategic benefits for invading Afghanistan than simply using it as a giant farm to grow drugs. But the drug aspect might be one small part of it. Possibly throughout some sneaky under-the-table deals. ghostgeek: There was no strategic benefit for the Americans in invading Afghanistan. All they wanted was bin Laden. If the Taliban had handed him over, the Yanks would have said "Thanks" and minded their own business. ghostgeek: A government that wanted to create a lucrative monopoly for drugs wouldn't behave the way the American government has. ghostgeek: It's really very simple. The Americans didn't take kindly to a bunch of Muslims knocking down the Twin Towers in New York, and decided it was time for payback. Payback duly arrived. The Japanese tried something similar decades earlier. They sank some American ships at Pearl Harbor and ended up playing host to two atomic bombs. These things happen, so my advice is to get over it and enjoy the sun. Farouquddeen Mumtaz: Heh. 9/11 was engineered by PNAC. They wanted to have a new Pearl Harbour to find a justification for their major war [1] [1] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century#Rebuilding_America.27s_Defenses_2 Farouquddeen Mumtaz: To clarify, even if 9/11 was an inside job, I'm not against USA. I think USA did what's right. Let me clarify. Imagine if USA hadn't done 9/11, and therefore hadn't attacked Afghanistan, and therefore hadn't attacked Iraq. What could've happened instead? I think this would have happened instead: Saddam would weaken the USD by trading oil in EUR instead. That might significantly weaken the USD up to a degree that it may lead into switching world powers. Then this power switch may result in a world de-estabelization, and a major war sooner. I firmly believe that we all must stand behind USA, UK, and the the NATO, in order to ensure the stability of the world peace. The last thing we would need is a power-reshuffle. That means, we should stop Russia from spreading its might and flexing its nuclear muscles. Seriously, I know you may dislike me, and my kind, for being a Muslim who worships a particular kind of skybro that is different than that of yours, but really, I like your countries to stay in power, because we --game theoretically-- share the agreement that your strength means not only your stability, but our stability as well.  lori100: wiki--Pearl Harbor----Several writers, including journalist Robert Stinnett,[5] retired U.S. Navy Rear Admiral Robert A Theobald,[6] and Harry Elmer Barnes[7] have argued various parties high in the U.S. and British governments knew of the attack in advance and may even have let it happen or encouraged it in order to force America into the European theatre of World War II via a Japanese–American war started at "the back door".[8][9] Evidence supporting this view is taken from quotations and source documents from the time[10] and the release of newer materials. ghostgeek: It is known that at least 11 countries provided advance warning to the US of the 9/11 attacks. Two senior Mossad experts were sent to Washington in August 2001 to alert the CIA and FBI to a cell of 200 terrorists said to be preparing a big operation (Daily Telegraph, September 16 2001). The list they provided included the names of four of the 9/11 hijackers, none of whom was arrested. [ https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2003/sep/06/september11.iraq ] The American authorities may have been negligent, or they may have had ulterior motives for not responding, but the fact remains that terrorists were busy plotting an attack on the U.S. ghostgeek: The Telegraph has learnt that two senior experts with Mossad, the Israeli military intelligence service, were sent to Washington in August to alert the CIA and FBI to the existence of a cell of as many of 200 terrorists said to be preparing a big operation. "They had no specific information about what was being planned but linked the plot to Osama bin Laden and told the Americans that there were strong grounds for suspecting Iraqi involvement," said a senior Israeli security official. [ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/1340698/Israeli-security-issued-urgent-warning-to-CIA-of-large-scale-terror-attacks.html ] ghostgeek: In 1999, British intelligence gave a secret report to the US embassy. The report stated that al-Qaeda had plans to use “commercial aircraft” in “unconventional ways,”“possibly as flying bombs.” [Sunday Times, 6/9/02] On July 16, 2001, British intelligence passed a message to the US that al-Qaeda was in “the final stages” of preparing a terrorist attack in Western countries. [London Times, 6/14/02] In early August, the British gave another warning, telling the US to expect multiple airline hijackings from al-Qaeda. This warning was included in Bush’s briefing on August 6, 2001. [Sunday Herald, 5/19/02] ghostgeek: In June 2001, German intelligence warned the US, Britain, and Israel that Middle Eastern terrorists were planning to hijack commercial aircraft and use them as weapons to attack “American and Israeli symbols which stand out.” Within the American intelligence community, “the warnings were taken seriously and surveillance intensified” but “there was disagreement on how such terrorist attacks could be prevented.” This warning came from Echelon, a spy satellite network that is partly based in Germany. [Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, 9/11/01, Washington Post, 9/14/01] ghostgeek: In late July 2001, Egyptian intelligence received a report from an undercover agent in Afghanistan that “20 al-Qaeda members had slipped into the US and four of them had received flight training on Cessnas.” To the Egyptians, pilots of small planes didn’t sound terribly alarming, but they passed on the message to the CIA anyway, fully expecting Washington to request information. “The request never came.” [CBS, 10/9/02] Given that there were 19 hijackers and four pilots (who trained on Cessnas) in the 9/11 plot, one might think this would now be a big news item. But in fact, the information has only appeared as an aside in a CBS “60 Minutes” show about a different topic. ghostgeek: In late summer 2001, Jordan intelligence intercepted a message stating that a major attack was being planned inside the US and that aircraft would be used. The code name of the operation was Big Wedding, which did in fact turn out to be the codename of the 9/11 plot. The message was passed to US intelligence through several channels. [International Herald Tribune, 5/21/02, Christian Science Monitor, 5/23/02] ghostgeek: Russian President Vladimir Putin publicly stated that he ordered his intelligence agencies to alert the US in the summer of 2001 that suicide pilots were training for attacks on US targets. [Fox News, 5/17/02] The head of Russian intelligence also stated, “We had clearly warned them” on several occasions, but they “did not pay the necessary attention.” [Agence France-Presse, 9/16/01] The Russian newspaper Izvestia claimed that Russian intelligence agents knew the participants in the attacks, and: “More than that, Moscow warned Washington about preparation for these actions a couple of weeks before they happened.” [Izvestia, 9/12/02] | Politics Chat Room 28 People Chatting Similar Conversations |