Is Germany Raped by Refugees? (Page 2)

LavenderKitty
LavenderKitty: And its unfair to be that way because not all refugees are like that. But id rather be safe than sorry. M Aybe make antarctica livable and put people there
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: Under Islamic law, rape can only be proven if the rapist confesses or if there are four male witnesses. Women who allege rape without the benefit of the act having been witnessed by four men (who presumably develop a conscience afterwards) are actually confessing to having sex. If they or the accused happens to be married, then it is considered to be adultery.

[ http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/rape-adultery.aspx ]
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Farouquddeen Mumtaz
Farouquddeen Mumtaz: lavenderkitty -- it is not alright in Bangladesh. It is not alright any where. And you are entitled to your opinion on being safe than sorry. And I agree with you, specially that those refugees really don't NEED to go to Europe or USA. They can to to Turkey, Jordan, safe parts of Syria, and safe parts of Iraqi.

But my point is: if a European country accepts refugees, and 5 among them rapes, then please do not generalize that "refugees" in general, or Islam in general, is a pro-rape religion. Because this is unfair.

In summary: I'm all about fairness:
1. It is totally fair for you to desire to be refugee-free (specially that the circumstances don't require you to adopt refugees.

2. It is unfair to generalize "rapers" on Muslims, Islam, or refugees, simply if 5 have raped.
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Farouquddeen Mumtaz
Farouquddeen Mumtaz: ghostgeek -- Muslims are about 1.6 billion as per Pew's 2015 study. And 1.6 _is_ multi-billion. Not that it matters, but I am clarifying that your nitpick on this unimportant aspect is wrong. Why? I like correctness.

As for Islamic law on rape victims, you are wrong. What you say is required for the case when you are accusing a couple of "welling" sex out of wedlock. In this case, they either confess, or adequate observers exist.

However, rape is different. Forensics analysis and DNA investigations can do it just fine.
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Latinalicious_
Latinalicious_: I'm more worried about homegrown terrorism than refugees coming over here and the small chance that one of them will commit a terrorist attack.
The last few acts of terrorism committed in the United States were by people born here.
When Timothy McVeigh committed a terrorist attack with the Oklahoma City bombing did we talk about banning Christians coming into the United States?
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Farouquddeen Mumtaz
Farouquddeen Mumtaz: Well also funny how western powers have killed many innocents in Pakistan by drone strikes, killed and raped many Iraqies, founded Al-Qayda and ISIS, veto against Palestinians have a country, etc, etc, and yet they pick on 5 rape cases by refugees to declare "OMG EUROPE IS RAPED!!"

I can't believe you --the opposition of refugees-- are even throwing such claims with a straight face.

What you should say is this: "we are aggressive people that have de-stabilized Middle East, but we just don't want that de-liberalization to reach our home in Europe or USA". This will make sense.

But really, forget about you being innocents with any superior morale stance, okay?
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Farouquddeen Mumtaz
Farouquddeen Mumtaz: Someone please tell Trump that WAY MORE people die by drinking alcohol per year than they die by Muslims blowing up.

I guess Trump will ban alcohol until he figures out what the hell is going on with alcohol.
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LavenderKitty
LavenderKitty: I didnt think he was serious about banning muslims. I thought he went back on his word. I dont want to ban people from coming here. And i hate that refugees have lost their homes thanks to stupid wars. I dont think all muslims are bad. Im not even scared of muslims. I know tnere are bad people amongst each race, religion, etc. But we really need to focus on fixing us first.
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Farouquddeen Mumtaz
Farouquddeen Mumtaz: I'm totally fine even if he bans Muslims. It's USA, and it's for Americans. Isn't this fair and square?

My points are only about telling others to not generalize that Islam and Muslims are raper terrorists simply because a few (5) have raped, or other west-funded mercenaries (ISIS) have wrecked havoc.
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: If a woman claims that she has been raped, she does not have to bring any witnesses to prove her claim; her word will be taken as truth without the need of any witnesses whatsoever. And because she claimed she was raped, she will be treated honorably and free of any wrong doing whatsoever. There is absolutely no question of any punishment for her, because she was the innocent party and a victim of the heinous crime committed against her.

But if the woman who is raped accuses that so and so specific person or people raped her, then there are only two ways an Islamic Court can convict the accused rapist/s:

The accused rapist confesses to his heinous crime; or

she produces four witnesses to justify her claim that so and so person raped her.

If the accused rapist does not confess, and the woman is unable to produce the four witnesses; then the Court can levy upon her the case of kazaf or falsely accusing somebody.

[ http://www.islamhelpline.net/node/905 ]
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LavenderKitty
LavenderKitty: But some muslims were born in america. They are american citizens. That cant and wont happen.
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LavenderKitty
LavenderKitty: And i agree whole heartedly with you. Its very unfair to say all will do what 5 did.
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Farouquddeen Mumtaz
Farouquddeen Mumtaz: ghostgeek - Where is that? You said that raped women don't need to bring evidence. In which country is it that they don't require evidence?
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Farouquddeen Mumtaz
Farouquddeen Mumtaz: Looks like we are all civilians. I wish you all the best. Just please don't nuke us because we had 5 criminal rapers (but please punish our criminals, because if you don't, we will lash them 100 times)
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: About the Author:

The honest truth is that I am an absolute nobody, except a humble slave servant of Allah Subhanah; whom the Merciful has honored to be a small part of this forum. It is nothing but the Grace and Mercy of Allah Subhanah, which has allowed us to continue this our humble and weak effort in the Cause of the Deen. The brother moderators of this forum wish to remain absolutely anonymous, for their one and only mission is to propagate the Truth from the Quran and Sunnah, rather than seek any fame or worldly benefit for themselves. They ask for no thanks, no appreciation, and absolutely no reward from anyone; and seek nothing except the Pleasure and Good Will of their Merciful Lord.

The sheikhs and Islamic scholars who help us in matters of Jurisprudence and in formulating and proof-reading the articles on this forum have taken their education at eminent Islamic Universities, and have dedicated their lives in the propagation of the Deen, and to the service and Cause of Allah Subhanah. They too seek absolutely no recognition for their untiring efforts in this humble cause, and seek their 'ajr' from the Lord of the Worlds Alone.

[ http://www.islamhelpline.net/about-author ]
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Farouquddeen Mumtaz
Farouquddeen Mumtaz: ghostgeek - author of what?
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LavenderKitty
LavenderKitty: Yep civillians with shitty governments. Indont wanna see innocent people bombed, hurt, ripped from their homes which is our sanctuary at the end of the day. World peace would be wonderful.
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: www.islamhelpline
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Farouquddeen Mumtaz
Farouquddeen Mumtaz: ghostgeek - thank you for taking parts of your time to put your opinion and cite your sources. You're a nice dude, and you are making perfect use of the Internet/communication, which is talking freely to express your opinion.
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: Thank you Farouquddeen. Nice of you to say so.
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: Gulnaz a Afghan Woman is to be freed from Jail after agreeing to marry her rapist. Afghan President Hamid Karzai on Thursday pardoned Gulnaz serving a 12-year prison sentence for having sex out of wedlock after she was raped by a relative.

Sharia is enshrined as the highest law of the land in Afghanistan according to the current constitution. Under Islamic law, the stress is not so much on the crime of rape but on the dishonour that the woman has brought upon her family by her sexual immorality, even if it was a rape. Under Islamic law, rape can only be proven if the rapist confesses or if there are four male witnesses. This is the primary reason that rape victims are often punished by the Islamic courts as adulterers.

Women like Gulnaz who make allegations of rape may be expected to produce four witnesses in accordance with the Qur'an's standards for proving a sexual crime (24:13), or they run the risk that all they have done is admitted to having sex.

[ http://iranian.com/main/blog/iqbal-latif/rape-victim-story-gulnaz-and-her-pardon.html ]
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Farouquddeen Mumtaz
Farouquddeen Mumtaz: ghostgeek - that is not related to Islam. If what you say is true, that's crazy batshit that is against Sharia. It's madness.

There are only two possibilities:
1) That news is misrepresenting the actual situation.
2) It is a stupidity that is specific to Afghanistan.

But it is definitely not a normal thing.

Also just to be fair, stupid legal decisions happen all over the world. What you are doing is that you are cherry picking a few news incidents to draw conclusions. This is wrong.

If you wish, I can also cherry pick news incidents to draw conclusions against western societies.

For example, recently, this American had sex with a goat just in August 2016: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/goat-sex-georgia_us_57a3b150e4b021fd987816d8

And, this white Australian had sex with a toddler: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-01-29/canberra-man-who-raped-toddler-in-a-library-sentenced-to-more-t/5225046

And Oscar, a rich white Ausralian, that despite his wealth, he murdered his girlfriend (or wife, same thing). Tell me about who is beating women now? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscar_Pistorius#Murder_of_Reeva_Steenkamp

Do you really want to cherry pick? Cause I can do the same. And guess what? It doesn't look pretty at all on the opposite side.

To me it seems that Muslims are actually extremely peaceful, and their crimes happen within the boundaries of common crime that happens in any society.

Do you want me to
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: What can I say, other than to offer examples:

On October 30, 2008, the United Nations condemned the stoning to death of Aisha Duhulowa, a 13-year-old girl who had been gang-raped and then sentenced to death by a Sharia court for fornication (Zina). She was screaming and begging for mercy, but when some family members attempted to intervene, shots were fired by the Islamic militia and a baby was killed.

The village Sharia courts in Bangladesh, although illegal, regularly punish raped minor girls and women by flogging and beating them with shoes.

The BBC reported that Zafran Bibi of Pakistan “went to the police to register a case of rape, but she herself was instead sentenced to death for having an adulterous affair.

About conducting a DNA test to identify the rapist, the Dawn reports: “Justice Ali Nawaz Chauhan of the Lahore High Court has observed that the DNA test is not acceptable as evidence to establish the offence of Zina under the Hudood laws which require a direct testimony in such cases….”

"Proof of Zina (adultery) or Zina Bil-Jabr (rape) liable to Hadd shall be one of the following:
(a) The accused makes confession, or
(b) There are at least four Muslim adult male witnesses”
{ Pakistan Hudood Ordinance VII of 1979 amended by Ordinance XX of 1980 }

[ http://www.ahl-alquran.com/English/show_article.php?main_id=6157 ]
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Farouquddeen Mumtaz
Farouquddeen Mumtaz: What is your message? That Bangaladish is a bad place? Or is it that you want to extend it to say "Islam is bad"? Or that "this is because of Islam"?

Rape victims are not punished in Islam. This is a lie. If it happens then it is an error. Or media misreporting.

But you need to also know that, for example, USA stoned more women to death than that. At best, that is an regional stupidity, and is not due to Islam. In fact, Islam is against it. Rape victims are not to be punished.

USA ordered air strikes that destroyed houses, transformed them into rocks that fell on women, and the innocent women died by being stoned by the rocks of their own house.

So essentially your country also stones women to death, except that (in the process) it also destroys their houses, and kills their kids and husbands as well.

And you're complaining about some stupid crime that happens in Bangaladish? There is far more blood on your hands than those of mine.
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: But Kano and Niger codes require either confession or four witnesses (four male witnesses or eight female witnesses) as the only proof for zina and rape
(s. 127, Explanation, Kano; s. 396 Code of Criminal Procedure, Kano; s. 68A
(3) [b] Niger).

[ https://www.heacademy.ac.uk/system/files/introduction_to_islamic_criminal_justice.pdf ]
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