Palestine (Page 17) Daddy uk: And Russia can say what they want - the arabs don't want to be governed by a palestinian state - and be subjected to unparalleled corruption and the evil of shariah SWlNE: We'll take that as your personal opinion. Continuing on the views of current World governments who are gaining more power in world politics. China - they have been tightlipped on their international relations and are not strong meddlers in global politics. They have in the past stated their support for Palestine UN Statehood bid (the bid that failed). Daddy uk: The New State of Israel is 67 years old...that makes it older than most countries at he UN...in 67 years, you will still be complaining there is no Palestimian State...but let's be clear the PAs moderate Palestine COnstitution denies the existence of Palestine or PAlestinians and declares the whole enterprise to be a staging post to a United Arab Moslem caliphate. The moderate position is the same as Isis and calls for a newJewish genocide.  I K R: I was asking what your opinion was not for an answer... But it's fine I can live without knowing your opinion.... N i can guarantee it'll be shite anyway. Daddy uk: Unlike you Filth...i answer direct questions directly. Am i a zionist? For 3,000 years my ancestors have been zionists. Since G-d promised the land to Abraham, isaac & Jacob. Since Moses led he children of Israel from a ragbag bunch of slaves to being a people with the first written constitution. Through the first and second temple eras and through the Babylonian exile - By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, we also wept, when we remembered Zion. We hung our lyres on the willows in its midst. For there, those who carried us away captive required of us a song; and those who tormented us required of us mirth, saying, ‘Sing us one of the songs of Zion.’ How shall we sing God’s song in a foreign land? If I forget you, O Jerusalem, let my right hand forget her cunning. If I do not remember you, let my tongue cleave to the roof of my mouth; if I do not set Jerusalem above my highest joy. (Psalms 137:1-6) and the return and the second exile post the destruction of the second temple, the heroic struggle at Masada and the bar kochba rebellion. Israel & Jerusalem are at the very essence of Judaism. Through the blood libels, crusades, Moslem oppression...the desire to return to Israel was set deep in the heart of every Jew and the fabric of jewish self determination: l'shana haba b'rushalyim - "next year in Jerusalem" We were zionists through progroms, revolutions and the holocaust...we were zioinsts when we lived as paupers in shtetl villages of the pale of settlement, in egypt, iraq , syria and ethiopia. the zionist spirit understood by george elliot in her novel Daniel Deronda predating Herzl's book the jewish state by some 50 years..was tangible and meaningful to a middle class non Jew in the victorian era. As zionists, despite exile, there was a continuous jewish presence in jerusalem for 2000 years - we have prayed at the Western Wall throughout that period, except when prevented by Moslems. As Jews, Israel is like our parent's home. Even if we have left and made our own lives, still it is home - and remains the one insurance policy the jewish people have that guarantees a home and protection for any jew. When the Nazis rose in the 1930s, Jewish immigrants to the UK were taunted with the chant "go back to Palestine" - the irony of the statement missed by its exponents...and today our opponents tell us to get out of Palestine! and we were zionists when, post 1948 and the failure of the Arab states to kill Israel at birth Israel today is amazing. Look how Belgium shut down at the very threat of terrorism. If Israel behaved like Belgium, it would never open. Instead it is a hive of innovation and progress. There is not a single field of science, computing, internet, IT that is not being advanced by the work of Israeli entrepreneurship. Surrounded by evil murderous Moslem regimes, mired in corruption, Israel, for all its many challenges, marches on. Outside of the USA, Israel has the highest number of companies listed on NASDAQ. I look at Israel with pride and amazement. From the draining of malarial swamps, to the pioneering work of desalination and irrigation, the work of the Weizmann Institute... and through it all to retain the highest sense of purpose to protect the rights of minorities - christian and moslem. That Israel is the safest place in the middle east for Jews, Christians & Moslems. Where the rights of women, gays and children, of Jews, Christians & Moslems are protected. Where an Arab Supreme Court judge can convict and imprison a former Israeli president. In no Moslem country on the planet could the converse situation exist for a whole series of reasons - combining racism, bigotry & ethnic cleansing. Am I a zionist? When bombs go off in Paris, when terrorists attack and behead british soldiers in the uk, or blow up train & buses; where gangs of moslems groom and vulnerable non-moslem women..I am moved beyond words at the resilience and compassion of Israel... Am i zionist? I am a zionist, my children are zionists and their great-great-great grandchildren will be zionists until the end of time. Am Yisrael Chai. SWlNE: I had this post on unfollow. It has been days since a response was given and the question asked. I'll read your long love letter now. Speaking of Chickens, welcome, Davidk14. SWlNE: Read that and all you're stating is 'Yes', you are a Zionist, Daddy_uk. Want to know a secret, Daddy_uk? Your mentally unstable, racist idea that a Sky god promised you a piece of land. That it gives you a divine right to continually seize land and property from the original inhabitants or kill off said inhabitants. It's not going to happen. You really think that you can control who will inhabit or live in that country. Very soon there will be Arabs and many others to dilute your vision of 'racial purity'. Here is a question for you, Davidk14, if you are brave enough to directly answer: How is your Zionism and religious pursuit going to work in a two-state solution. You have stated before that you want a two-state solution. Can't have it both, Kiddo.  davidk14: . An atheist and anarchist all rolled into a tootsie roll. Trying to make a comment to a tootsie roll...is crazy. . SWlNE: Once again, you can not directly respond to a discussion. It is a straightforward question: How is your Zionism and religious pursuits going to work with the two-state solution that you proposed? Another fail response and insult. (this time without the emotes) davidk14: Israel will be Israel. West Bank and Gaza will be Palestinian. Simple. Two state solution. Even a Palestinian understands that. Please....tell us you have more. Not. . . SWlNE: In Zionism there is no two-state solution. Not in God's plans according to Zionist supporters. Which side are you really on, Davidk14. A) Two state solution. B) Zionism. davidk14: . Where do you get the idea that their can not be a two state solution? Of course there can be. That's what peace negotiations are about....like the peace treaties Israel has with Egypt and Jordan. What everyone is looking for is solutions and not your type of dribble. Here is a link for you. It's the definition of Zionism. It is from a very reliable source. It took me just a few minutes to read the document. If you actually read the entire document, let me know. But until then, until you educate yourself on the topic, there is nothing to discuss. But again, let me know if you do read the information. There were a few things I did not know. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/isdf/text/maor.html SWlNE: Zionists incorporates all the land. It is that piece of land that they claim for themselves. I suggest you educate yourself before taking a position on the matter. Zionism is not about a two-state solution. They are for single one-state. SWlNE: Zionist do not believe in 'sharing land'. They believe that all belongs to them and were given by a Sky God. You really believe the bullshit of looking for a solution? That's why homes are demolished and there is building during 'negotiations'? I am telling you that in Zionism there is no 'sharing'. I am not discussing whether a two-state solution can be reached, I am stating that Zionists fully believe that it is all for them given from the Sky God. (Edited by SWlNE) Daddy uk: You have to stop conflating Jews with Moslems...and simplifying zionists as a singular concept...it only shows your ignorance and bigotry ...so where to start 1. Zionists ..advocates for a Jewish national homeland & state in the historic land of Israel, are not a homogeneous group. The politics of Zionism range from Left wing Marxism to Ultra right views and all points along the scale. This is seen is the highly fragmentary nature of Israel's Knesset. All unite behind Israel but as to the nature of Israel or indeed whether the State of Israel or Eretz Yisrael (I am certain you understand the nuance and won't spell it out for you) form the legitimate boundaries is one of a myriad of political conflicts. And Zionists divide between secular & haredi Jews, Sephardic & ashkenazi, left and right...the fissures inside Jewish politics are many.. 2. Zionists inside Israel also includes Arab Christians & Moslems citizens ...many of whom volunteer to serve ...volunteer because Military service is only compulsory for Jews. 3. I don't understand what you mean by "share the land"? With whom does the British "share its land" or any other state for that matter? The point is that there remains a strong, vibrant and growing Arab, Christian and Moslem, population in Israel...they don't have to stay. We see Arabs flooding across the world from many middle eastern countries, it's odd that the one Jewish state doesn't seem to have these issues.... 4. But let's be pragmatic and try and put examples into the discussion instead of hyperbole. a) In 1967, when Israel recaptured Jerusalem from Jordan and returned to the Old City...there were calls by those on the right to destroy Al Aqsa. But the Chief Rabbi and others advocated against this and Al Aqsa stands today, administered by a Arab committee...is this sharing? b) Arabs can own businesses, property, vote, serve in Parliament, be doctors, lawyers, judges, police officers, teachers, anything actually.....is this sharing? 5. When it comes to "sharing" the land...the issue is a question to be posed of Moslems. In the So called Palestinian Territories (Disputed territories), it is precluded from Jews living there. This is true not simply in Israel but across the whole Moslem Middle East...Jews can't live, work, own property or businesses...indeed, in terms of land sharing, it is a capital offence in the Palestinian Territories for an Arab to sell property to a Jew. That's right, Moslems are so into sharing the land with Jews, they kill their coreligionists who would dare do so. I am sure you know much of this and you try to simplify arguments to tease people...but it is always helpful to look beyond simple bland generalisations and explore facts. Every accusation you throw at Zionists..come right back at you. They are untrue, and more than untrue, represent the true character of Israel's and the west Moslem enemies. Liars, distorters and perverters of truth. Daddy uk: As to the source of Israel's Jewish legitimacy...the Old Testament provides the primary source document (unchallenged) and the Koran supports and substantiates this. Can you provide the source texts that provide justification for any other people holding any other piece of land? SWlNE: I have made no mention of muslims. -Zionism at its foundation calls for the movement of Jewish people (note there is no mention of any other group of people) to reside and govern a specific piece of land. -There are two groups of persons who lay claim to this area and who wish to have self-governance. The indigenous people (some of whom were forced to flee their homes) and the other group is Jewish settlers (coming from Europe and other places, it is a continuous influx). It is this indigenous group of people who are usually called 'Palestinians'. To a Zionist there is no dividing the land for a two-state solution (even you have been arguing for a single state, a Jewish one). -It is stated by Chaim Herzog "no one can be a partner with us in a land that has been holy to our people for 2000 years". ------------ On your statement: "we see Arabs flooding across the world from many middle eastern countries, it's odd that the one Jewish state doesn't seem to have these issues...." - Not odd at all, Israel has rejected Syrian refugees. You were not aware of that? Then now you know. One minute you claim not to know what 'sharing' the land means and in the next you suddenly using it. Why are you concern on buying land when you have been bulldozing and engaging in illegal building all along? There should not be any land transaction when there is dispute on those lands. I don't tease people and if I wanted to tease you, I would've taken personal jabs. Which most likely will happen if you start it. ------------- SWlNE: The Old Testament is unchallenged? This discussion has taken a down turn. You are calling the Old Testament and the Koran as legitimacy for your Zionistic ideals? The same text that claimed a man using a stick split a sea in half? The same text that states that we should stone homosexuals? The same book that calls for attacking and killing off innocent inhabitants who come in the way of the Jewish version of Lebensraum? (Ah well that last part is being applied today) That's no legitimacy. And I can go through those books with you. I think we should go through those documents because if that is your foundation then it is a good start. And I take this to mean that you hold the Old Testament and the Koran as factual books and everything stated in them as legitimate. (Edited by SWlNE) | Politics Chat Room 77 People Chatting Similar Conversations |