Communism - Workers of the world unite! (Page 2)

Communist_: Dictatorship of the workers. In other words we control the country. We, the people, dictate it.

I don't see what the Nazi Holocaust has to do with Stalin or Marxism in general.... So I don't see why I should bother answering that?


Youve never given any proof he killed people. You make false accusations, throw Wikipedia pages out without providing a single piece of hard evidence.
When I give real evidence to debunk your myths, you class it as "bullshit propaganda"... without even bothering to read it.



You also continue to spit out false statements about an ideology you know completely nothing about. Hell, you probably don't know what communism is defined as! LOL. You lack political knowledge, since you clearly never understood what "anti-revolutionism" or "workers dictatorship" meant.



You're probably one of those 10 year old American patriots who seen American Sniper and believe their soldiers go out to defend their freedom by bombing Middle East, who also believe that Israel is the victim in its crisis with Palestine....

Outbackjack: "Dictatorship of the workers. In other words we control the country. We, the people, dictate it. "

A dictatorship is a dictatorship.

How do the people dictate it and what happens to people who want to be left alone and not dictated to?

Lets say for example a country like India or even Indonesia with a large population became your version of "Communist"

How would 1.1 billion people or even 300 million have a slight chance of having their voice heard.The answer is they would not.

There would be repression and no freedom.

"I don't see what the Nazi Holocaust has to do with Stalin or Marxism in general.... So I don't see why I should bother answering that?"

I have provided clear evidence of Stalins atrocities you have given me some garbage from a mob called the "Stalin Society." Why would I read an obvious example of blatant propaganda?

If you deny Stalins crimes do you also deny Hitlers crimes?
It is an entirely reasonable question.Tell me why you fear answering it?

"You also continue to spit out false statements about an ideology you know completely nothing about. Hell, you probably don't know what communism is defined as! LOL. You lack political knowledge, since you clearly never understood what "anti-revolutionism" or "workers dictatorship" meant."

I will take that as a compliment coming from you with your backward narrow mindedness.We all know what a dictatorship is.

I have no interest in 'your" crazy politics which deny people the most basics right to freedom.You are not even a Communist.You are a nasty little Stalinist whose views are actually anti-worker and resemble the mould of right wing dictators.

"You're probably one of those 10 year old American patriots who seen American Sniper and believe their soldiers go out to defend their freedom by bombing Middle East, who also believe that Israel is the victim in its crisis with Palestine...."

HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!

I can hear the howls of laughter from fellow Wireclubbers reading this.

Communist_: A workers dictatorship is the control of the country by the workers. The people choose their own set of laws and whatever they need.

Search Vanguardism.




You've never provided a single hard evidence at all. Wikipedia is not evidence



"I'm not a communist - I'm a far right Stalinist"
LOOOL!
Stalinism is the bases for Marxist-Leninism.

"Right-wing dictators"
Another example of your lack of knowledge in politics and economics

I don't deny the Holocaust by the way ... ? Which I still don't see why you asked on a thread that's based on communism.

Communist_: Anyway... Let's try to stay on topic.

Why do you hate communism anyway?

(As in the ideology itself. Not because of any mythical killings you've heard which you can not even provide legitimate proof for)

Outbackjack: Bravo!

So you finally answered the question. It has every bit of relevance to this thread.You deny one holocaust but believe in another.

"You've never provided a single hard evidence at all. Wikipedia is not evidence"

I have not quoted Wikipedia to show Stalins crimes here have another look at the links I posted:

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/09668139608412393?journalCode=ceas20#.VcxGkvn8nIU

http://www.distributedrepublic.net/archives/2006/05/01/how-many-did-stalin-really-murder/

http://news.stanford.edu/news/2010/september/naimark-stalin-genocide-092310.html

I don't know how you even dare to try and question Wikipedia when you post biased propaganda from a bunch of fruitcakes called "The Stalin Society."

Answer me this.Do you actually consider the Stalin society to be a credible source?

"Stalinism is the bases for Marxist-Leninism. "

Wrong.

Stalin used Leninism to take absolute control.He even physically used Lenin's dead corpse to further his totalitarian agenda.

Why else did he have Lenin embalmed just like the Tsars?

So he could build a mausoleum to cynically visit Lenin and pretend he had a mandate from the man himself.A grave is not grand.It also has the added bonus of being an exhibit for all the sheep to go and visit Lenin too.

Communist_: Stalinism is the bases for Marxist Leninism dude...

Have you read Marxism, Leninism and Stalinism? I guess not...

Marxist Leninism promotes the vanguardism theory. This theory was played out by Stalin and explains the importance. This theory was further improved by Che Guevara in Guevarism. Maoism is a more "leftist" version of Stalinism.



Stalin Society is not the evidence. The evidence is in what it says within the articles. Read them, they'll mention names, books, places, etc. Then you search all them up and that's the evidence. It has proof behind what it says.

The articles you showed still only continues the myth "Stalin killed X" yet it forgets to give any sort of evidence.


I'll give you some proof. Search up William Hearst and Adolf Hitler 1933. Search up Hearst Media and Ukraine. Search up the Chicago Newspaper 1935.
Search up 1986 CIA and Mi5 information leaking and lies about Stalin.

Now that's proof... Not "Stalin killed X" because it said so in my school's history text book.


Lenin's body is a shrine. Just like Mao's. Just like Che'swas supposee to... Before USA assassinated him.


And Stalin carried out a holocaust? LOL


But considering I answered your question. Answer mine in return:

Why do you hate the ideology of communism?

Outbackjack: "Stalinism is the bases for Marxist Leninism dude.."

And I have just explained to you that Stalin used Lenin and even his corpse.You could argue that there may even have to be a whole new necrophillic term added to the Oxford dictionary for the way in which Stalin used Lenins corpse.

"Marxist Leninism promotes the vanguardism theory. This theory was played out by Stalin and explains the importance."

Played out? What from behind his desk? Was this around the time that he abandoned his soldiers/comrades and turned tale and ran from his mate Hitler?

"This theory was further improved by Che Guevara in Guevarism."

Look where that got him.

"Maoism is a more "leftist" version of Stalinism."

So now you admit Stalinism is out there on the right wing?

"Stalin Soviety is not the evidence"

About time.Stalin society are a bunch of fruitcakes.

"The evidence is in what it says within the articles. Read them, they'll mention names, books, places, etc. Then you search all them up and that's the evidence. It has proof behind what it says."

Why would i bother reading what a bunch of neurotic control freaks think of Stalin and his murderous ways.I have on hand the whole internet which is full of accounts of credible people who were there.The people who exhumed the mass graves.The people who unearthed all the archives.

Even blind Freddy can deduce that Stalin was a monster.

gronchbove: Stalin was the epitome of "Power Corrupts." The concepts of Marxism are good, but when the politicians get involved, they will tend to skew the authority gained to give themselves perks not enjoyed by the masses.

Under Stalin, the Soviets became a "dictatorship of the bureaucracy."

The interesting thing is that when the Soviet Union collapsed in 1988, they had the highest prison to population rate in the world, government surveillance and inefficiency everywhere.

Now, the Danglo Capitalist empire in 2015 has the highest prison to population rate in the world, guns down 3 x citizens per day, government surveillance and inefficiency everywhere.

Power seems to follow the same pattern.

There are still 2 x advantages of Socialism: 1) everyone has a job and 2) bankers are punished.

Communist_: "his soldiers/comrades and turned tale and ran from his mate Hitler?"

That made no sense.



"Look where that got him"

The fact that his theory inspired other revolutionaries. Mao Zedong, Ho Chi Minh, Che Guevara etc.


"So now you admit Stalinism is out there on the right wing?"

Sooner or later I'm going to quit responding to your lack of knowledge. Literally...every post you write, there's at least one line that makea absolute no sense what so ever.

'Maoism is a more leftist version" does not mean Stalin was a right. Lol. It means Maoism had a more commune / Marxist doctrine within it that Stalin's.



"Why would i bother reading what a bunch of neurotic control freaks"

Maybe because you're a complete bigot?



"I have on hand the whole internet which is full of accounts of credible people who were there."

I study Politics, Philosophy and History. My major being politics. I've searched the Internet, libraries before I became a Leftist. This was to find evidence for the myths. I found nothing. Not one single hard evidence at all.

I told you to search William Hearst and Ukraine, Hitler. The Chicago Newspaper 1935. The leaking of all Stalin lies from the Mi5 and CIA in the 80s.



"Even blind Freddy can deduce that Stalin was a monster."

My point as well. It only happens to be brainwashed and blinded people by their capitalist propaganda who believe Stalin was a monster.



You still haven't answered my questions as to why you hate communism, the ideology?


By the way, me defending Stalin from propaganda doesn't make me a Stalinist. As much as he was an inspiration, the best Communist ideology is Leninism. I consider myself a Leninist.

Outbackjack: " "his soldiers/comrades and turned tale and ran from his mate Hitler?"

That made no sense."

It makes perfect sense.When Hitler invaded the Soviet Union Stalin showed the world he was a coward and ran away.

"The fact that his theory inspired other revolutionaries. Mao Zedong, Ho Chi Minh, Che Guevara etc."

The fact that he inspired other totalitarian dictators is a good thing?
Oh pardon me I forgot that I was talking to a Stalinist and not a rational person.

"Sooner or later I'm going to quit responding to your lack of knowledge. Literally...every post you write, there's at least one line that makea absolute no sense what so ever."

Throwing in the towel already?

"'Maoism is a more leftist version" does not mean Stalin was a right. Lol. It means Maoism had a more commune / Marxist doctrine within it that Stalin's. "

Now who is not making sense.Please reread that.

""Why would i bother reading what a bunch of neurotic control freaks"

Maybe because you're a complete bigot?"

If it means being intolerant of pseudo fascists like yourself then I am proud to be called one.

"I study Politics, Philosophy and History. My major being politics. I've searched the Internet, libraries before I became a Leftist. This was to find evidence for the myths. I found nothing. Not one single hard evidence at all. "

Is that with your mates at the Stalin society? Did they give you a little red book and proclaim you a Major in their society?

"I told you to search William Hearst and Ukraine, Hitler. The Chicago Newspaper 1935. The leaking of all Stalin lies from the Mi5 and CIA in the 80s"

What has this to do with Communism or Stalinism?.

"My point as well. It only happens to be brainwashed and blinded people by their capitalist propaganda who believe Stalin was a monster. "

By your backward thinking 99% of the planet must be brainwashed.Which makes you the 1%.I know where I would rather be.We are the 99%.

"You still haven't answered my questions as to why you hate communism, the ideology?"

Who said I hate Communism? I just hate your nasty totalitarianism masquerading as freedom.Speaking of.You still haven't given me an answer on how people are free in a repressive society as yours?

"By the way, me defending Stalin from propaganda doesn't make me a Stalinist. As much as he was an inspiration, the best Communist ideology is Leninism. I consider myself a Leninist. "

Of course you consider yourself a Leninist.You are a paradox.You can not claim Stalin was an inspiration also. Despite his obvious faults (being a totalitarian dictator) Lenin was an inspiration to many because he was the father of the Russian revolution.Stalin only inspires the evil psychopathic control freaks who seek to lead by his example.

Which is why Stalin had Lenin embalmed.

Communist_: Since you continue to throw a blind eye at the links I give you, here's something to think about:


Russia's population since the 1800's up until the 1990's have been increasing by around 800,000 - 900,000 per year.

Since the 1990's to till 2005 it has been pretty much constant, increasing less than 1,000.

Since 2005 up until now, Russia's population has been on the decrease.




Now, let's use the data from 1800 to 1990.
We'll use 850,000 since it's the average of 800,000 and 900,000.

--In 10 years the population of Russia would increase by about 8.5M
--In 20 years the population of Russia would increase by about 17M.
--In 19 years the population of Russia would increase by 16.15M (16.2M)


Stalin was the premier of Russia for 19 years, from 1924 till 1953.

Population of Russia, in 1924, after the death of Vladimir Lenin: 91,000,000

Population of Russia, in 1953, after the death of Joseph Stalin: 107,634,000

---The difference: 16.6M. We calculated that in 19 years following the trend it should have increased by 16.2M, so it should be 107,200,000. In other words, the population of Russia increased too fast.

Now, you say Stalin killed 50M people? LOL. If he had killed 50M, the population would be 41M. Then add the increase = 57.2M.

Unless he magically murdered 50M people without it decreasing the population...

I'll give you some homework to do: Research the population for the other 14 republics. THEY ALL FOLLOW THIS SAME TREND. There is not one single drop in population (except 1942 = WW2).

Maybe this is why there is not a single proof or evidence to support "Stalin killed X" ...

Communist_: Now. Since you won't read my evidence. Here's some more proof:


"Ukrainian Famine"

Joseph Goebbels, the Reich minister of propaganda. Also argued that he held more power than Rudolf Hess. It was this man behind the ordering of the killings of Jews, disabled, mentally ill, retarded, patients with genetic disorder, etc. Goebbels also hated communists, he ordered the abolishment of the German communist party. On behalf of Hitler, he ordered the killing of all communists. In 1929 he demanded the world to stop the USSR from expanding.

Did you know?...
Goebbels had a close friend, called William Hearst. William Hearst, an American propagandist. A really powerful one himself, just like Goebbels.

In 1929, Goebbels spies in Hungary and Romania found out that people had died in Ukraine. The actual reason behind was unknown. Nazi's sent messages via codes. This code was cracked and read: "reason unknown - but we shall use Stalin."

However, the Nazi's weren't in power in 1929 so Goebbels waited until 1935, 6 years after receiving this information. He showed entire Nazi Germany that "Socialism is evil - Stalin had killed thousands of innocents." Without providing a single evidence. This was the start of the Ukrainian myths.

In 1935, Goebbels passed this info to Hearst for two reasons, remember, Goebbels was a very smart man. Hitler stated "without him - there would be no Reich." The two reasons are:

1) Goebbels hates communism. He wanted this lie to spread, and in 1929 he demanded the world to stop the USSR. He knew the only way to take down the USSR was with the help of the entire world.

2) Goebbels was smart. He wanted this lie spread to USA. Hopefully USA would react and war with USSR. This would distract USSR and USA (both superpowers) leaving them Europe free to invade with just UK in the way. In October of that year Goebbels sent a message via a code directly to Hitler, the code read "plan to distract USA."


After Hearst received this information, he released this info across the US media. The Hearst media was massive. Over 100 different companies with 15,000+ employees. So a lot were fed this lie. The first paper to release the article was the Chicago American, "millions just killed in Ukraine." 'Just' ? It happened 6 years+ ago...

In 1951 William Hearst died. But his large media continued to spread this lie.


In other words, the Ukraine killings is all information provided by a Nazi who greatly hated communism, given to an American mass propagandist who further twisted the lies and eventually people started to believe it.
.


"A lie told often will eventually become the truth" Joseph Goebbels.

(I wasted around 30 minutes typing and searching this )

Communist_: And some more I wrote:



The Spanish Flu crisis began hit Europe in 1918, right after world war one. It quickly spread across the continent killing millions. At the time, medicine was poor, so resistance was also poor.

Estimates of around 50M people reported deaths and over 200M reported cases. Millions in every major European country died, every European country was hit - except USSR. Due to its isolation.

It's said the pathogen died out towards the end of the 1920's as number of cases were sharply decreasing. The Ukrainian famine occurred during the late 20s as well. Majority of the deaths in Ukraine were from the Spanish flu. As Ukraine started to industrialise, it reopened its railroads to the rest of Europe, this provided an entry for the pathogen.

Since the people of Ukraine and since USSR weren't ready or expected the disease, they did not have the medicine to fight it. A headline from Kyev newspaper stated "thousands died" another newspaper in Romania stated around "500,000 died."

It's estimated almost 700,000 died in UK. 1M died in France. And around 15M across Europe. But not a single leader was put to blame. 500,000 died in Ukraine - Stalin was blamed for it.

Communist_: And one last one:


"GULAGS"

During the 80's the Gulags was becoming a major anti-communism propaganda weapon. Especially in 1986, after the truth about the Ukrainian famine was leaked.

A socialist economy is a tough economy to keep stable. Very little profit is generated since there's no private companies. With little profit, they continue to prove a lot for free - Health care, University etc...

Many people who hate Stalin, hate Stalin for his labour camps in which apparently 300 billion people died. After the fall of the Tsardom, Russia's third world economy went into ruins. USSR was built on this poor economy that couldn't survive a free market let alone a socialist society run economy. The USSR would have fallen in the 1920's "there was a time when most of us thought it was over" Mikhail Kalinin. But in the 30's Stalin opened labour camps which forces prisoners ONLY to carry out labour work in hope of generating that extra profit.

Stalin turned a third world country into a global superpower in 15 years, something that took countries like UK, France and USA hundred of years to do. The USSR would not have lived until 1991, if it wasn't for those camps.

The camps neither killed 300 billion people. A source from the Chicago newspaper in the 1980s suggested that 800,000 were held in such camps. It took this figure only 30 years to reach 9 million. The camps, according to Gorbachev who released a ton of private information kept in the KGB, showed that at maximum throughout the 20 years, there were a total of 2,000,000 (2 million) prisoners. At its peak, it had 454,000 prisoners. The US prisons currently hold 2,266,800. Now, this is from BJS. The real figure could be x10 higher, who knows. Either way, their figure of 2,266,800 currently held right now is over 5 times larger than the peak of 454,000!

The number of people that die annually in US prisons is, 958, once again, data from the government, so the original figures may be much larger. Also, 1240 number of people are killed in the US on the streets by the police. Also, figures from the government itself. That totals 2,198 killings per year by the government, which over a period of 20 years comes to 43,960.

Boris Yeltsin, a power hungry, former Russian President, who openly admitted he hated communism, USSR and anything to do with it. Yeltsin was a member of the USSR party. He then resigned realizing the only way of getting power would be if he was to be elected as "President." This happened after the fall of the USSR. But his rule wasn't long, the time he spent as Russian leader is known as the "economic genocide." On the day of his death, people were not upset, in fact he was hated across Russia. This same man released an article from the KGB which showed how many people in the USSR Gulags were killed. The figure released was 1,053,829, in total of the 20 years period. When the Communist Party of Russia asked for evidence of this article, Yeltsin claimed the article was "classified." He then abolished the communist party. Clearly, a made up figure.

But using this fake figure, with the number of deaths in US, which has been given to us by the government (obviously, it's going to be much higher) the USSR over the 20 years killed 20x more in the Gulags. But we also see that the US prison population is x5 larger than the Gulag peak population.

So the Gulags were not so bad, compared to modern US prisons What we also forget is that the USSR were 15 different republics. It only makes things fair is if we use 15 capitalist countries as well. But if we do that, it'll make the Nazi camps look good compared to the prisons.

This also shows that Stalin did not kill 300 billion people a day in his Gulag hell...

Communist_: I did one more considering you used the term "Fascist" :


Stalin a fascist dictator

Those who call Stalin a fascist have no idea what "fascism" or "socialism" means. But in the late 8s and early 90s the British newspaper, the Times, had an article headlined "Stalin's a fascist."

After Gorbachev released private information from the KGB in the late 80s, one of the information released was the "pact" Hitler and Stalin signed in 1939. The pact suggested that both parties would invade Poland and split it in half. Because of this pact Stalin is a "fascist."

Erwin Rommel, regarded as one of the best war commanders in history, was a Nazi general. Rommel suggested the only way to take Poland, without angering the Soviets, was using this pact. Goebbels, also insisted that the pact was essential in the Third Reich. So the pact was not something the Soviets asked for.

What the article also forgets to mention is that Stalin wasn't the only one to sign a pact with Hitler. Churchill signed a pact that allowed Hitler the right to invade Austria, in return he doesn't advance any further! The article also forgets to mention that USA poured over hundred of millions into the German weapon industry! France and Italy had also signed a pact that would leave Monaco out of the war! Spain signed a pact with Hitler that they would not interfere in the war, in Hitler would send prisons to Spain!

Mikhail Kalinin regarded Stalin as the saviour of the USSR. Alexandra Kollontai, a soviet ambassador to Norway, "the love for Stalin within the party is incredible." Georgy Malenkov stated that only Stalin was capable of such improvements in the USSR. Nikolay Shvernik at the say of his death suggested the best era of the USSR was during Stalin's regime. Stalin's approval were always constantly high, he was legitimately elected throughout his period, and as result if this his known as a dictator? Wouldn't that make Obama a dictator as well, for being elected in, again? Or Cameron?

Communist_: And Stalin ran away? Dude Soviets killed the entire SS branch. 80% of the Nazi troops. They got to Berlin ON THEIR OWN before the allied forces could TOGETHER...



> Says he doesn't hate communism > hates Stalinism > forgets to realize Stalinism is the bases for marxist leninism...


Anyway, read my essays I wrote above. It should take around 15 minutes.

Outbackjack: "Russia's population since the 1800's....."

Let me stop you right there.The keyword here is RUSSIA.You are being deliberately dishonest to everyone here by talking about Russia when it is the SOVIET UNION that you should be referencing.


I have never met a Stalinist yet who wont repeatedly stoop to the lowest level by lying about statistics to try and justify their abhorrent ideology.

You then go about how "Russias" population increased.

HELLOOOOOOOO!

Its called mechanised farming and the invention of super phosphates.Common sense dictates a man with a horse ploughing a field will grow a hell of a lot less than a man with tractors and combine harvesters.

"Stalin was the premier of Russia for 19 years, from 1924 till 1953."

You might want to try using basic mental arithmetic.The most obvious conclusion that I can draw from the above statement is that you ran out of fingers and toes to count on.

You then go on to carp on about Nazism?
Why?
This is a thread about Communism.
But if you want to talk about Nazism and Communism lets look a few inconvenient truths.

Hitler actually signed a pact with Stalin.You can try and justify this disgusting fact all you like but it made Hitler and Stalin allies.I read an interesting book about Communism in the United Kingdom many years ago and you know what?

The Communists there were that brainwashed by Stalins propaganda that as Britain was getting the crap bombed out of it.Communists were being dragged into the jails for refusing to cooperate.

SOME COMMUNISTS WERE ACTIVELY AIDING THE NAZIS!!!!!!!!

Why? Because Stalin was Hitlers ally.If that does not rank as the most ultimate in absolute stupidity then I do not know what is.

"The Spanish Flu crisis began hit Europe in 1918, right after world war one. It quickly spread across the continent killing millions. At the time, medicine was poor, so resistance was also poor.

Estimates of around 50M people reported deaths and over 200M reported cases. Millions in every major European country died, every European country was hit - except USSR. Due to its isolation.

It's said the pathogen died out towards the end of the 1920's as number of cases were sharply decreasing."

BULLSHIT!

It is well known that the main epidemic had finished in 1920 and that there were very very few cases of it in the mid 1920's.Which coincidentally is the time that Stalin took over.

""GULAGS"

During the 80's the Gulags was becoming a major anti-communism propaganda weapon. Especially in 1986, "

I am glad you mentioned this finally.So you admit that they exist?
You talk about the 1980s but how about the 1990s when the Soviet archives were opened up and the evidence of the slaughter was made apparent?

"Many people who hate Stalin, hate Stalin for his labour camps in which apparently 300 billion people died."

Where do you get these figures?There have never ever been that many people on the planet throughout history.

." A source from the Chicago newspaper in the 1980s suggested that 800,000 were held in such camps. "

What source? Where? Just like the rest of your article it was copy and pasted from some Stalinist website on the internet.

"Those who call Stalin a fascist have no idea what "fascism" or "socialism" means. But in the late 8s and early 90s the British newspaper, the Times, had an article headlined "Stalin's a fascist."

After Gorbachev released private information from the KGB in the late 80s, one of the information released was the "pact" Hitler and Stalin signed in 1939. The pact suggested that both parties would invade Poland and split it in half. Because of this pact Stalin is a "fascist." "

Sounds like plain old fashioned Fascism to me.Especially when you jump into bed with Hitler and cooperate in invading another country against its will.You and your mates can come up with all thew Newspeak phrases you like to pretend it is not fascist.

But if it squeals like a pig then you can bet your life that it is a pig.

"What the article also forgets to mention is that Stalin wasn't the only one to sign a pact with Hitler. Churchill signed a pact that allowed Hitler the right to invade Austria, "

You don't even have the slightest clue about history do you?

It was Chamberlain that signed the peace treaty with Hitler.But yui are too busy copying and pasting all that garbage off your Stalinist website to do some actual research.

"Spain signed a pact with Hitler that they would not interfere in the war, in Hitler would send prisons to Spain!"

How is this surprising? Franco of Spain was a fascist.It is well documented that Goering used the Luftwaffe to bomb the Republican army in the Spanish civil war in 1936.This turned the tide for Franco and led to 40 years of Fascist rule in Spain.

"Stalin's approval were always constantly high, he was legitimately elected throughout his period,"

HA HA HA HA!!!

Now you are being funny.Perhaps you would like to explain this election where there were no other candidates.

"And Stalin ran away?"

For several days after the invasion(by Hitler), Stalin reportedly hid in his dacha, profoundly depressed, perhaps fearful of being overthrown, and, from June 23 to 30, he apparently issued not one order nor signed a single document.

Coward.

"Says he doesn't hate communism > hates Stalinism > forgets to realize Stalinism is the bases for marxist leninism..."

I never said I hated or liked Communism.I did not offer an opinion.I do however hate the repressive ideology of Stalinism/Leninism which denies basic freedoms.

Which brings us back to the most important question that you keep avoiding?

You still haven't given me an answer on how people are free in a repressive society as yours?


"Anyway, read my essays I wrote above. It should take around 15 minutes."

The essays that use figures of 300 billion people???

Seriously tell us where you got this "Major" in politics because I sure as hell don't believe you.It is probably a piece of paper you plucked out of a North Korean Cornflake packet.

chronology: Jack, the invasion of Poland in 1939 was prompted by a number of political issues, it was not simply an 'pact' between Stalin and Hitler.

Germany was alarmed at the murder and dispossession of many ethnic Germans living in Polish administered districts at the time. Poland more or less ignored German complaints because it was being assured at the time by Britain, France and the U.S.A. that they would support Poland no matter what in it's dispute with Berlin. Berlin eventually came to believe that the only solution to the crisis involving ethnic Germans in Poland was to take over administration of the Districts, by force if necessary. 'Russia' not so much the U.S.S.R. had a long running dispute with Poland over lands that it claimed was it's own that had been given to Poland after WW1.

Perhaps if Poland had been more willing to negotiate with Berlin and Moscow in a more pragmatic attitude then the 1939 invasion could have been avoided, but Poland was convinced London, Paris and Washington was serious in their pledges of support. American support was not bound by a Treaty like English and French pledges were. Poland did not see that London and Washington were a very long way from Eastern Europe.

There was also the thorny issue of Ukraine. Ukraine had been created by the German military during WW1 to provide food for Germany to try and avoid the hardships created by Britain's Naval embargo of Germany. German experts had trained Ukrainian Farmers in modern farming techniques and advised them in how best to run modern farms. After WW1 Poland wiped out the German infra structure placed there, and they were not very gentle in how they went about doing so, this was another cause for concern for Germany.

I mean no offence to any Polish folks, I just don't think their countrymen back then realised how exposed they were in their dispute with Russia and Germany. Washington and London also never seemed to consider the contradiction in their stand on Human Rights at the time. While Washington spoke out about the discrimination against Jewish people in Germany, it turned a blind eye to the mass murder and mass imprisonments in Ukraine by Poland.

Communist_: You're a complete bigot. Have the decency to read them.

And if you did read them, it's not just Russia's population that followed the same trend. I asked you to go search the other 14.

The other 14 didn't have a population of 50M combined by the way anyway so if he killed 50M what you're saying is 14 countries went extinct then magically made numbers back up.

The entire Ukraine Famine is lies started by the Nazis. I told you countless times to search up William Hearst and Hitler.

The US prisons hold x4 more people than the Gulags. These are figures from the US government themselves, once again search it up.

The pact was forced to be signed from Hitler''s point. What about USA funding Hitler? What about UK giving PERMISSION TO INVADE AN ENTIRE COUNTRY. Never mind you're a proud bigot.

300 billion was sarcasm which you also fail to understand. It's becoming repetitive and I'm starting to assume your entire life is pretty much bigotry and failures.

Lenin's USSR was regarded the most democratic and "free" society in history. Not only did Lenin receive this praise from communists, but from anti communists as well. It was so free, that it's reported in the UK schools, in history class when covering the Cold War, they mention Lenin's USSR as the most free and democratic. Wait never mind I'm explaining to a complete bigot...

You talk about invasions...

What about all the UK, France, USA etc invasions?
Wait never mind I forgot again... you're a complete proud bigot.


Do you behave like a 10 year old with everyone whom you argue with?

Outbackjack: Chrono said

"Perhaps if Poland had been more willing to negotiate with Berlin and Moscow "

Are you serious???

Hitler was a madman who quite literally wanted to takeover the world.You of all people should be aware of your own countries P.M who tried to negotiate and appease Hitler.History has proven that this approach was wrong and you are on the wrong side of it.As for Stalin he took over Poland anyway.

Stalinist said

"You're a complete bigot. Have the decency to read them.

And if you did read them, it's not just Russia's population that followed the same trend. I asked you to go search the other 14."

I don't know how you can even consider the idea of decency.You are completely dishonest when you speak of Russia and not the soviet Union.

"300 billion was sarcasm which you also fail to understand. It's becoming repetitive and I'm starting to assume your entire life is pretty much bigotry and failures."

Better than supporting a failed system of tyranny.

If I was to make a Freudian assumption of the failures in your life then I would come to the conclusion that you possibly had a domineering mother.Who was brutal towards you. Psychology has a lot to give when evaluating why people support psychopathic political tendencies.

"Lenin's USSR was regarded the most democratic and "free" society in history."

By who? Where is your proof?

"t was so free, that it's reported in the UK schools, in history class when covering the Cold War, they mention Lenin's USSR as the most free and democratic."

That is complete claptrap.I can tell you for a fact that it was ever at any time in the national curriculum.Probably a couple of "true believers" who went rogue were spooning out the black acid.But it was never mainstream teaching.

"you're a complete proud bigot."

Yes I am but probably not enough to do your mother proud.

"Do you behave like a 10 year old with everyone whom you argue with?"

I am merely talking to a psychopath with a mental age of 10.you need to learn some brutal truths about the world before you grow up.

You still haven't provided a shred of evidence of why the people in the Soviet Union were free contrary to well established evidence proving otherwise?

You also haven't told us where you got this imaginary "Major" in politics?

chronology: Jack, Jack, Jack, you are still scooping up the Allied Propaganda slop dished out about Germany.

Germany 'was' in negotiations with Poland, constantly attempting to have them abide by the agreement they had signed promising to protect the property and lives of Germans living in Poland. The rows of dead bodies lined up in halls of Germans killed resisting being evicted from their homes was grim evidence no such respect was being afforded to the agreement. But Berlin persisted in the attempt to reason with Poland's leaders.
People from the Ukraine were also attempting to win support from U.S. Congressmen and women for their attempts to stop Polish occupiers in Ukraine from killing and arresting Ukrainians, but Washington would not interfere at all with the situation. It was obvious Washington was supporting Poland all the way no matter what their actions were to Germans or Ukrainians.

Finally Berlin had no options left to restore the situation in Poland to normal but to resist any attack on Germany with full defensive actions including passing over into Polish territory.

Jack, if you think Germany wanted to 'rule the world' then why did Berlin leave French Colonies to run themselves without any interference from Berlin?

Communist_: >Says I have a major >I told him I'm studying a major in politics >continues to say I have a major -____-



Proof that Lenin's USSR was free. ACCORDING TO THE BRITISH CURRICULUM:

This is an educational site that is run by the BBC!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesize/history/mwh/russia/

Now. It gets funny

>asked why he hates communism >says he doesn't hate communism >says he hates stalinism >forgets to realize stalinism is bases from Marxist leninism >but still argues that doesn't mean he hates communism >calls communism a failure even though it's never been practised in this world >calls communism a psychopathic ideology


You're confused m8. Very confused.


Like I said. Your brainwashed deluded closed minded. Capitalist Propaganda had done well. You're a lost cause.
"My troops fight for my freedom in Middle East" Says you кекекекекекек.



And quit bringing my mother into this... Wtf? Is that seriously how low you have to reach?


>says stalin killed 50m >asked for evidence >has no evidence >so I give him population figures which proves him entirely wrong >ignores those cause he's a bigot >so I give him further evidence >ignores those >asked for proof >still gives no proof >brings my mother into this.

-____________-

Outbackjack: *Ignores Chrono

"Says I have a major >I told him I'm studying a major in politics >continues to say I have a major -____-"

So you finally admit that you do not have a Major.Lets face it.With your level of political backwardness t wasn't half obvious.

Lets look at what you actually said:

"I study Politics, Philosophy and History."

What at the library? In your fathers office? In the chook shed? Where?

"My major being politics."

The key word here is MY.As in yours.You never said you were studying for an actual Major in politics or where ( you have a hell of a long way to go.)

I had a look at that link you gave me and honestly mate you are a few sandwiches short of picnic.It is a history and asks students to make their own decisions on it.It is what students and teachers call a test.Like this gem:

Stalin's Russia was strong enough to defeat the irresistible Nazi armies, and to become for the next half-century one of the two superpowers on the world stage. Yet Stalin was a leader who instituted a terror that reputedly sent 10 million people to death. So was Stalin a monster, or a necessary evil for Russia's survival?

This is what this link says when it asks the student to come to a final conclusion.Even the BBC comes up with 10 MILLION KILLED BY STALIN!!!

EPIC FAIL

Some advice for you if you are seriously doing a Major in politics (which I doubt). Drop all the claptrap about Stalin being such a nice man and stick to the facts.Even by your own link it asks the question:

"So was Stalin a monster, or a necessary evil for Russia's survival? "

It is a question designed to ascertain whether the pupil is a real scholar of history.A test.Nothing more nothing less.Your response will bring about serious laughter and a huge F foe FAIL if you were to take this U.K exam.

">asked why he hates communism >says he doesn't hate communism >"

Stop being dishonest it does not suit err.....of course it suits you.You are a Stalinist.

I never offered an opinion on Communism.

"says he hates stalinism >forgets to realize stalinism is bases from Marxist leninism"

Are you serious?

How is Stalinism a basis for it Marxist/Leninism when Marx and Lenin were dead when Stalin came to power?

Please explain this?

"calls communism a psychopathic ideology"

And if you actually studied history instead of brown nosing it with your Stalinist mates.Then you would come to this logical conclusion.

It also seems like I have hit a Freudian nerve.

Communist_: Stalinism is an ideology fool... Your lack of understanding is on display again.

Stalinism is centred around vaguardism of the proletariat. The idea of Bolshevikism and anti nationalism and patriotism. Since it was anti nationalistic, it promoted "Socialism In One country" theory, which Bukharin expand further. And this therefore makes it the bases for Marxist Leninism. As Marx and Lenin were both anti nationalists, who stated it was an ideology created by the bourgeoisie.

Stalinism isn't the actions of Stalin -___- ... it's the ideology he followed to run USSR. Now if you had read Stalinism you would understand, instead of making 10 year old assumptions "Lenin and Marx weren't alive when Stalin were in charge! Are you serious?" ....






Once again I'll give you this fact to consider:



Population of Russia in 1924 - 91M
Population of Russia in 1953 - 107M

Population growth during Russia's period between 1800 and 1990 was 850,000 per year.
So 19 years (Stalin length of rule) it should go up by 16M. So it should be 107M, which it was.


Population of Ukraine in 1924 - 27.7M
Population of Ukraine in 1953 - 38.3M

Population growth during Ukraine'speriod between 1915 and 1965 was 220,000 per year. So 19 years, it should go up by 4.2M. But instead it went up by an alarming 9M! So instead of killing he some how cloned people! He didn't really... Ukraine, under Stalin, industrialised rapidly, it became USSR's weaponry producing home. Take the T-34 tank which is described as the tank which won the war for the allied. And some class it as the best tank in WW2! And as result of this industrialisation, mass migration and immigration occurred into Ukraine.


The population for the other nations don't even matter, because they don't even add up to 10M...
But if you insist, I can give you them as well.

But this shows, there is no way he killed millions or even hundred of thousands. The population wouldn't simply add up. The fact that some figures reach 50M is incredible and how some fall for it. If he killed 50M, you're stating it halved USSR'S population but then magically jumped back to around double the original number on the day of his death. But then again, people like you would believe anything the media tells you... eg: "muh troops fight for muh freedom in middle east" lololololol

Outbackjack: "Stalinism is an ideology fool... Your lack of understanding is on display again."

Of course it is an ideology. A totalitarian ideology where nobody is free.

"Stalinism is centred around vaguardism of the proletariat."

The idea that a group of people know what is best for the workers and must adhere to the vanguard at all costs.If they don't do as they are told they get called counter revolutionary and dispatched to a "re-education camp or worse, they get shot.

Usually the vanguard are a bunch of pseudo Marxist intellectuals who have never done a real days work in their life.These vanguardists are a parasitic bureaucratic class of people who are actually anti-worker despite all the Newspeak they put out saying otherwise.George Orwell was right on the money when he described them as pigs in his groundbreaking novel Animal farm.

All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others - George Orwell

"Stalinism isn't the actions of Stalin -___- ... it's the ideology he followed to run USSR. Now if you had read Stalinism you would understand, instead of making 10 year old assumptions "Lenin and Marx weren't alive when Stalin were in charge! Are you serious?" ...."

I ask again.

How can Stalinism be a basis for Marxism or Leninism WHEN THEY WERE DEAD?

Oh give me strength.He is waffling on about Russia again when it technically did not even exist and refusing to discuss statistics based on the Soviet Union.

Blatant dishonesty.

"Population of Ukraine in 1924 - 27.7M
Population of Ukraine in 1953 - 38.3M"

More Blah Blah about Russia then this

"But this shows, there is no way he killed millions or even hundred of thousands. The population wouldn't simply add up. "

I have just explained this to you in plain English.Mechanised farming and industrialisation in the Soviet Union meant that more people could be fed thus the population increased.

"eg: "muh troops fight for muh freedom in middle east" lololololol"

Are you talking to me?

So where are we now?

We have established that

* The Spanish flu had no effect during Stalins reign.

*Mechanised farming is better able to feed people than non mechanised (as a farm worker I can vouch for that.)

*Stalins pact with Hitler turned Communists into Nazi collaborators.

But I still have some important questions for you

I would like you to explain what happened to the Vanguard at Kronstadt in the uprising?

"Lenin's USSR was regarded the most democratic and "free" society in history."

You still have not told us about this so called Freedom in a stalinist society and what happens to people who don't want to participate?

"Stalin's approval were always constantly high, he was legitimately elected throughout his period,"

How? When nobody else could run against him?

Your silence is deafening when it comes to this BBC student link that YOU provided.In this very link that YOU provided it says Stalin killed 10 million.Are you now denying that?

Your silence is deafening on where you are studying this Major in politics?