congrats to Palestine (Page 3)
chronology: poetry123. Interesting comparison you make between Palestinians and people in Michigan about water. I was reading some of the wording about funding for many programmes in Michigan 'The Hammer' 'Time to get Tough' 'Cut the Water off to all these people' if Israel used language like that people would flash it across the world. The scenes of people scrambling for water in Detroit and the West Bank are distressing.
poetry123: Chrono- That is some food for thought. For the record- I absolutely don't think anyone should have to live without water and I think Israel did the right thing by the Palestinians, as they often do. It is my understanding that the crisis was only in Gaza where Hamas refused to pay, not the West Bank. I guess I will look into that.
poetry123: Ok- I did a little checking. For the record, I would like to add that Israelis live with water shortages and electricity outages-- it's not like there is hoarding going on...it is the desert.
From what I read- there is a lot of misinformation (propaganda) out there that for whatever reason is accepted as fact. There was actually an Oslo Water Agreement that both parties signed and Israel has always allocated to the Palestinians more water than was agreed upon. The Palestinians have refused to take basic steps in water preservation- even though they have received more than adequate funding for that specific purpose. For example, they do not repair leaky pipelines, nor update irrigation or even reuse sewage water for irrigation, or try to conserve at all- though these have all been suggested to them. Not to mention they illegally connect to Israel's main water lines and steal water whenever they can. They do not treat sewage water at all, though they were gifted $500 million to set up a treatment plant. Unfortunately, their untreated sewage water runs into Israel and pollutes Israel's water supplies. I could go on and on, but you get the idea.
lisa99hunter: I’m half Norwegian and we always been supporting a peace solution for that conflict. The Oslo agreement among other. I’m for Palestine righs and think they have been threatened beyond unfair. I’m against Isreals politics and how they break promises and take land and kill young people who have done nothing wrong other than speak up. You would think that after the early 40s they should have learned something. In Europe they wasn’t exactly friendly with the Jewish population..... and not just SS there are many to blame and many rich companies today have made big money on that......Phillips..... among many.
lisa99hunter: It was definitely on purpose and not my personal view more just to create some affection
poetry123: Lisa- you didn't offend so much as you leave me wondering where you get your information from.
You mention the Oslo accords as a peace solution. Are you aware that Israel has abided by the Oslo agreements, it is the PA that continues to break the terms. As a matter of fact, Abbas is the one who declared the Oslo accords to be dead, not Israel. How exactly have Palestinian rights been trampled and how have they been ‘threatened beyond fair?’ Which promises has Israel broken and which policies are you against? If you can’t provide examples then you are just spewing propaganda. Israel absolutely does not ‘kill young people who have done nothing wrong’- that is a lie.
You say ‘in Europe they wasn’t exactly friendly with the Jewish population’ is that how Norway teaches the holocaust? The genocide could not have taken place with just the SS, or even with the help of ‘rich companies’- it happened because of the people- the Europeans who were active collaborators and rabid anti-semites. For the record, yes we Jews did learn from the holocaust, we learned that we are not welcome in Europe and it was never our home, that we need a country so that we can defend ourselves.
The worst enemy of the Palestinians is not Israel, but rather their elected and corrupt leaders starting with Arafat and continuing with Abbas and Hamas today. Are you aware that the Palestinians have been offered a state numerous times, yet they continue to refuse?
The truth is that if Israel were to put down its arms there would be no more Israel. If the Arabs were to put down their arms there would be no more war- Golda Meir
lisa99hunter: No that’s not how Norway teach the Holochost I just mentioned it in its simplicity. Much of the Jewish populations where murderd during the war Norway with Denmark probably saved more Jews than any nations we were self occupied by the German. And big parts of Norway was bombarded because we never actually surrendered. I have been to the Auscwirz museum myself and I’m confident that we have that topic in our history classes more than many. Norway helped Jews over to Sweden risking their lives doing that. Norway gives out the Nobel peace prize. Israel building settlements where they agreed not to do it and if you go there your self you can see the suffering among the palistain people from bombs that hit children’s hospital and so on. It’s part of American culture to be pro Israel without knowing really anything about the condition there. I know that in first person.? Think Europe in general have a much better knowledge around holocost as most people in Florida I ask just have a vastly idea what it means. We still have survivors that teach new generations about the subject. We don’t have much nazism in Norway unlike United States that even have natzi political party . We also like the states have free speech and just the same demarcation system but we also recognize that natzism is also a political government from of dictatorship and then per definition is a treat to democracy.?and therefore illegal.! We just want peace really and both sides have to participate for that to happen. Little tiered of fellow Americans that make opinions but not based on knowledge but culture
poetry123: First let me address what you say about Israel. In answer to your question- not only have I been to Israel, I am an Israeli. Have you been there? The settlements are not illegal according to the Oslo Accords, nor are they considered ‘stolen’ land. At best, it is disputed territory. The settlements only constitute about 5% of Judea and Samaria- 95% of the land is occupied and controlled by the Palestinian Authority. That said- Israel never agreed not to build homes, parks, and schools on that land- why should they?
Moving on…In 2005, Israel evicted 10,000 of its own citizens from Gaza and offered the Palestinians their first chance at self rule. But Hamas took over the territory and turned it into an Islamist terror state, rather than a model for peaceful coexistence with Israel. Hamas uses Gaza as a rocket launching pad to attack and terrorize Israel. Can you imagine having a neighbor like this? Hamas stashes weapons in hospitals, private homes, and even UN schools- knowing that these will then become targets. If you have a problem with anyone, it should be with Hamas for using their civilians as human shields, not with Israel for defending herself.
Now, to address Norway’s part in the holocaust- it isn’t quite as honorable as you say. Matter of fact, in 2012 the prime minister of Norway even apologized for the role his nation played in deporting their Jews during the war. He admits that Norway conspired with the Nazis. More than a third of Norway’s jews were deported to death camps. A direct quote from him "It is time for us to acknowledge that Norwegian policemen, civil servants and other Norwegians took part in the arrest and deportation of Jews." You speak about the knowledge you (Norweigans) and all Europeans have about the holocaust as being superior to that of the residents of Florida. But it seems your knowledge is very lacking. Yet here you are ‘tired of Americans having opinions without knowledge’ LOL. Let me educate you a bit on your nation’s role in the murder of Norweigan jews…Norway implemented their own anti Jewish laws, used their own people to carry out the deportations, confiscated Jewish property and discriminated against the Jews well before the Germans demanded any of that from them. Spare me your victim story, Norway did not have to do what it did. If you want to talk about a nation that acted honorably, we can talk about Bulgaria who despite German occupation, still managed to save every single Jew from deportation.
lisa99hunter: There are in fact American banks among other companies that profited on holcost chace for example much European companies also that are big today.Ford is an other one. When I say Europe wasn’t nice I refer to for example England that per German request without being occupied sent much of there Jewish population east few survived. Many other countries as well and it’s ignorance to say they didn’t know what would happen to them. Phillips huge European companie is based on profits from holcost Mercedes Benz. And there was many nationalities among SS even gestapo ( often better to read history books written by the defited) that found the treatment so gruesome that the had to stop individual groups from other countries because even by their standards it was beyond. Not so much literature out there about the holocost on the Gypsy population. One of the few books I couldn’t finish and at large it was polish “ regularly people “ that was at large behind that without any SS motivation eyewitness so gruesome that I stopped reading it. I’ve read a lot of literature on holocost and SS . knupp last name a German a book simply called the SS is one of the most informative books out there. I’ve also read Rudolf Huss the commandant of aushwitz own memories that he was asked to write while waiting on his execution. Disgusting book in many ways but very informative if you like to understand. Interesting enough it was previous school teachers shoemakers and other “normal “ people that requted them self and worked in many of the concentrations camps. Evil??? Definde that? Opretonetst it’s what many of the personalities had in common who took such a gruesome job. In SS specifically working in the camps gave a lot of shortcuts up in the system. Anyone can be evil I’ve read about a experimental done by 5th year psychology students all good friends at university of northern Norway. Psychologists organized the experiment that was supposed to Las 24 hours half the class was prisoners and the other half guards. Of course the psychologists made roles and it was definitely a mind game. It had to stop after 8 hours because of the treatment of the prisoners went out of control. I have my self participated in a mind control test. Nothing to do with vileness but just prodgects we had to do this was completely of free will lasted for almost four days the things we did was pointless but I didn’t sleep for the whole time and was convinced that my life would never recover if I didn’t manage this prodjects. We made it simply because they were looking for team work only done by the military. Nothing bad just remember how disappointed I was when it was over and they told us something we really already know. Incredible how that works when professional people are doing it. I can almost not remember anything other than I was 100% sure this was a must to even have a future. Most perticpants was older and well educated with good jobs some people broke down crying hahahaha strange and not even today I can but a finger on what they did other than not giving you the response you expect or no response at all. We humans are very dependent on a response good or bad depending what you done. Plus much more they did without me being able to explain because I don’t know.
lisa99hunter: You are absolutely right about police and sivilvervants.i have many Jewish friends but private people did help many Jews to safely. I red a bomb of a book on Norwegian police and other indeviduals helping SS agenda many Norwegian think they are so proud and innocent that the first book on 700 padges gotta lot of criticism))) all isreaels I have meet are wonderful people and invite to friendship. And I know that it’s hard for Israel to deal with such a distrctive group as Hamas they destroy much for the palestaine people to. I never been but it’s really high on my list I respect you more than you know and actually like to know you better and be your friend here.sorry for offended you. But Norwegian farmers and ordenary people did contribute to help. Norway often have a almost ignorant relationship with the wrong things they have done. The treatment of Norwegian war sailors are one of the darkest characters in after war history in Norway. Still today there is a few alive and they have never really gotten the apology they deserve. No country is perfect. Your people have been through perhaps the darkest human distraction of all human histoty. Perhaps that’s my motevation to explore profterteres of holocost even many have apologized. I feel with you and think all human conflict is sad. Isn’t some of the land and disegrements there very old? Like going back to Jesus time? I’m asking because I don’t know. My friends in Florida might be under avrige because they know nothing about anything you learn in school. But being born in America and are a citizen all my life I sense different cultural opinions on many things I don’t like. You agree? I’m not so dumb as you make me and I’m also sorry and hope you forgive me. Like my dad says young people like you referring to me is dumb by nature)) hope we can have some more constructive and kind conversations and I’m interested to learn more from you. Lisa
poetry123: No Lisa I don't think you are dumb at all. I would absolutely enjoy having more conversations with you. You did not offend me. Like I said- you only left me wondering what kind of propaganda you have been exposed to. I agree with you 100% that the Palestinians have been treated horribly, I just see that it is at the hands of the PLO, the PA, Hamas, and all the other arab states that keep the conflict fresh and call for the destruction of Israel. For instance, there is no reason why the Palestinians are still living in refugee camps inside their own territories. How can you be a refugee in your own land? This is not because of Israel, this is what their own leaders are doing to them. But worse than that, the Palestinians live in fear, only it is not fear of Israel, it is fear of Hamas who is a constant threat to every Gazan citizen. One wrong word, one false move- and he pays with his life. This is why when Hamas arrives at homes, hospitals, schools, and mosques with their rocket launchers and bombs, no one speaks out in opposition for fear of execution. Gazans have very little to fear from Israel- they don't even see Israelis as there are no jews allowed in Gaza. Israel doesn't target homes, hospitals, schools, and mosques. Hamas is the real danger, not Israel. It is up to the Palestinians themselves to stand up to Hamas if they want things to change. Nobody can do that for them, however it would help significantly if Europe would stop coddling them and making them believe the terrorism is justified and that they are somehow freedom fighters. This will be the only way to preserve lives, both jewish and arab.
lisa99hunter: Yes you are right the people I know that have been there saw Israels and Pakistani people being friends and do nice things in absolutely peace
lisa99hunter: thanks for forgiving me some stupid comments I’m still learning to see consequences of what I say sometimes still young and dumb sometimes. Apologize again
alexgal9999999: palestine is a word
invented by the romans...
serving most of the middle east
resurrection of this term by the original terrorist
in a new arab land grab
THIS LAND IS OURS
GOD GAVE THIS LAND TO US
I AM ROMAN CATHOLIC
PRACTISING 8 YRS
THE ONE THING I KNOW FOR SURE
MOSLEMS OWN NONE
WE HAVE HAD THE OPINION OF A BLACK SUPER POWER LEADER
HOW DID THAT WORK OUT
SHOULD HAVE BEEN
DR BEN CARSON
COULD YOU IMAGINE THE THINGS THIS INTELLIGENT EDUCATED GENIUS WOULD HAVE ACHIEVED
OBAMA WANTED PARTITION
alexgal9999999: REINVENT HISTORY ALL YOU
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A PALESTINIAN
THESE PEOPLE WANT THE WORLD
NOT JUST ISRAEL
No, you are wrong.
The Israeli system of government is based on parliamentary democracy just like Britain.
Britain is also parliamentary democracy. So Britain is a police state?
Your ignorance is showing..
terryanderson1986: these are not lefties ... lefty is that commie worshiping putins punk trump. What is a palestinian?A just a jordanian who lost a war... that they think they have a say about Jerusalem is crazy... I don't see them in the bible or in any period of history in the fight over jeruselem till the jordanians lost the war....