Is Israel going crazy? (Page 36)

SWlNE:
From the man you admire, Davidk14:

“Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same sense that England belongs to the English or France to the French. It is wrong and inhuman to impose the Jews on the Arabs... Surely it would be a crime against humanity to reduce the proud Arabs so that Palestine can be restored to the Jews partly or wholly as their national home”
― Mahatma Gandhi

Or is it this one:

"We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population." Israel Koenig, "The Koenig Memorandum."
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koenig_Memorandum

SWlNE:
Israel is as crazy as Hamas.

davidk14: .

Funny thing about research...you find all sorts of stuff....such as...

In the Koenig Memorandum....there is no such passage...."We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population." that you posted.

Completely fictitious as most of the trash you post.

Don't believe everything you read or hear. As I have stated many, many times....DO YOUR HOMEWORK before spewing slander from some wiki site. Here is the memorandum for your every ones review...

http://issuu.com/joeexample1/docs/koenig_report

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SWlNE:
“We must expel Arabs and take their places.”—David Ben Gurion, 1937, Ben Gurion and the Palestine Arabs, Oxford University Press, 1985.

“We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population.”—David Ben-Gurion, May 1948, to the General Staff. From Ben-Gurion, A Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978.

Very fictitious indeed.

davidk14: .

You quoted from the wrong source stating it was from 1978. There statements were about the Nazi Arabs and not the generations later Arabs. You sure screwed this one up good.

Geez. You really need to not post stuff until you proof read and check authenticity. In the past sometimes I made that mistake by not reading the entire document before posting comments.

I since have learned to read as much as possible before posting. Such as this beauty....Did you know....


"Together with the nearby Tamar gas field, the Leviathan field is seen as an opportunity for Israel to become a major energy player in the Middle East.[6]"

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leviathan_gas_field


I bet that just chaps your hide doesn't it.

Israel a major world power with lots of new friends that want non-Arab oil and gas. Definitely a game changer.

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SWlNE:
Only funny thing is that your wiki link does not show that the statements were not made or that it was not referring to 'Arabs' which it stated. Notice that the statement is directly to Arabs:

“We must expel Arabs and take their places.”—David Ben Gurion, 1937, Ben Gurion and the Palestine Arabs, Oxford University Press, 1985.

“We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population.”—David Ben-Gurion, May 1948, to the General Staff. From Ben-Gurion, A Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978.

SWlNE:
Back to the racist Koenig Memorandum gems:

The government must find a way to neutralize the payment of "big family" grants to the Arab population, either by linking them to the economic situation or by taking this responsibility from the national insurance system and transferring it to the Jewish Agency or to the Zionist organization, so that the grant is paid to Jews only.

davidk14: .

Did you read the document? I don't think so.

It's been a fact that by Israeli Law which allows Palestinians to become Israeli citizens with representation in the Israeli Knesset, the Arab population is booming.

In time, the numbers will be lopsided. Israel will have issues being a Jewish country. Limiting Muslims as citizens is becoming the challenge. That is why the right of return is nowhere as a possibility.


It's not about racism. It's about keeping Israel Jewish as it was intended from conception.


And everyone knows, its no different than any of the 28 Muslim countries which represent 100's of million of Muslims but they use Sharia Law.


For example, Egypt is 97% Muslim. Israel is 80% Jewish. By your description, Egypt is more racist than Israel yet you have no issues with that now do you. How about Iran. How about Saudi Arabia. You have no issues with them being 95%+ Muslim. So you pick on Israel for wanting to be Jewish?

Not exact fair on your part. Actually, some may consider it rather racist of you.


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SWlNE:
Your document speaks on the Leviathan gas field. Something that is not being discussed. What is presently being discussed is the racism in Israel.

You have comprehension issues over there, Davidk14?

It is as much about racism as Hitler's Lebensraum. It is as racist as 'White-only' fountains. It is viewed as strongly racist because you are essentially stating that a person in Europe has more rights to a land than a native of said land simply because that person is Jewish. Substitute 'jewish' or 'jew' with any other minority group and you will see the racism in this.

Unlike the 'muslim countries' Israel is being financed by tax payers of foreign countries and was established by the UN and foreign entities. I take it that you consider it to be just as the Muslim countries. Not a good thing. You are enforcing that a population should be of a certain group and that the existing group should be suppressed

Exactly what racism is about. Exactly what apartheid was about.


(It should be noted that Arabs are not the only ones subjected to fixed racism in Israel but also Ethiopian jews.)

dave3974: true racism is still a force in many countries but admit it , I bet it is a lot easier being an Islamic arab in isreal than a being a jew in an arab country .
By the way isn`t Egypt heavily financed by the usA ?

SWlNE:
Are you aware that the native Arabs living in Israel where there prior to the establishment of Israel in 1948? It's not as some jew visiting an Arab country and facing discrimination (which is also wrong in my view). So no, I don't agree that a person should sit back and say 'well we should take it because...' I will support the act of standing up towards it. It's shit.

On your last question: On the scale of Israel is a definite no. Considering too that 'aid' towards Egypt has been frozen and threatened to be frozen many and the strings attached. Egypt is an established country, it was not financed into what it is presently in the sense that Israel was both created and dependant on foreign aid. I'm not sure why Davidk14 will compare the establishment of Israel as a Lebensraum is similar to the Muslim countries. Looking at the history of muslim countries and the Ottoman empire they were not made as a specific 'lands for muslims', they just happened to have a muslim majority due to their deep history. Also can't compare it to the Vatican city.

What makes Israel problematic is that it consists of foreigners thinking they have more right over the native population. Clear vacant land in the US for Israel and no one will bat an eye. But it is called racism to not support the idea that a group of persons are superior to the native population? That is the root of the racism in the Zionist movement. It is not on who happens to be the majority, it is on pressing that one group should be placed over another who were already the occupants of that land. Stating that the native occupants are 'squatters'.

It is as Hitchens said "Take away the divine warrant for the Holy Land and where were you, and what were you? Just another land-thief like the Turks or the British, except that in this case you wanted the land without the people."

Strange world.

ghostgeek: What's happening in Israel is as old as the hills. People and nations have always been trying to take what doesn't belong to them. When it comes to land, sometimes the invaders manage to put down permanent roots, like the Spanish in the Americas, and sometimes they get booted out, like the Crusaders in the Levant. Only time will tell how it works out in Palestine, but wih six million Jews being surrounded by three hundred million Muslims, I'm not betting on the state of Israel lasting another hundred years.

ghostgeek: The rising tension inside Israel suggests the nation is feeling and acting as though beleaguered. Every picture cominng out of the place seems to show soldiers on patrol. There are fences and walls everywhere. Missiles are forever pointed at the sky. Dropping bombs on its neighbours has become an industry. People are ever ready to run for the shelters when the sirens sound. And there is a growing intolerance of anyone who is not Jewish and ultra religious.

SWlNE:
Jews have lived peaceful amongst muslims in the past. Under the Ottoman Empire, while Christians were persecuting the Jews of the Byzantine Empire they were welcomed under the Ottoman rule. Even the Jews of Bursa welcomed them as their deliverers after it was liberated.
Perhaps Zionism was the turning point?

ghostgeek: Zionism was, and is, a colonial enterprise, so yes it might get up the nose of some Muslims.

davidk14: .

Let's use a few facts here folks.....


Zionism....

Its general definition means the national movement for the return of the Jewish people to their homeland and the resumption of Jewish sovereignty in the Land of Israel.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Zionism/zionism.html

The movement was to get to the point where Israel became a Jewish country in 1948.

The....after the establishment of Israel....

Since the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948, Zionism has come to include the movement for the development of the State of Israel and the protection of the Jewish nation in Israel through support for the Israel Defense Forces.

Same web-site.

For some morons, Zionism is a bad word...a bad term....and ugly word. They use hate towards that word. Zionism was not created to intentionally take more land than in 1948. That occurred when Syria, Jordan, and Egypt tried in vain to murder every Jew.

Let me be clear....In 1967, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt attacked Israel and tried to murder every Jew. The final solution...genocide.

It did not work out so well for these three countries.

Israel, seriously outnumbered, they took the Golan Heights from Syria.

Israel, seriously outnumbered, took control of E Jerusalem and the West Bank from Jordan.

Israel, seriously outnumbered, took control of Gaza and the Sinai Desert.

These three Arabs lost horribly. They tried to exterminate the Jews but the Jews fought back....and won decisively. These Arabs, who were Allies with Adolf Hitler and his Nazi's, tried and failed in continuing the genocide that they openly supported as Hitlers final solution.

And you call Zionism a colonial enterprise?

You are delusional.

The Palestinians want the land that is currently Israel and will not accept less. That just aint gonna happen.

Do you support genocide of the Jewish people like the Palestinians do? Before you answer, just remember they voted in democratically Hamas whose sole objective is to kill every Jew in Israel.

So, knowing this factual information, do you support genocide of the Jewish people like the Palestinians do?

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SWlNE:
Who wouldn't be pissed off by injustice, Ghostgeek? It is human to get fired up when you see your home being demolished for someone who has the luxury of leaving their home in Europe/US/somewhere else to buy another house where you use to live.

And it is understandable because it is a type of racial colonisation which wishes to install a group of people at the expense of the natives whereas colonisation of the past use to encompass the natives by force.

It doesn't matter if this group is jews or what religious claims are made. The matter with Palestine and Israel should be handled with a heavy hand. The Palestinians and other native Arabs have greater rights and should be supported, the native jews have rights as well.

Arabs fought against Hitler, Muslims saved Jewish lives in the Holocaust, countries as Albania in WW2. So it is not impossible. What is needed is a heavy handed unbias third party to set things straight in that area. Zionism should not be encouraged and those who are presently in that area are the ones who should be sorted out.

davidk14: .

And space aliens have visited earth.

Yada yada yada

We've all heard the anti-Jewish propaganda many times.

The Mastiff of Jerusalem, the Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas, Hezbollah, and the dozens of other radical extremest Islamist terrorist organizations...

http://www.state.gov/j/ct/rls/other/des/123085.htm )


...who support the extermination of Jews.

Not the 99% as I have stated numberous times....

,,,,but the 1% who you keep insisting have validity to cause the genocide of Jews.

You should be ashamed.

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davidk14: .

Here's an interesting piece of information...

The Palestinian Arab and Nazi political leaders said that they had a common cause against International Jewry.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relations_between_Nazi_Germany_and_the_Arab_world


Very interesting article about Nazi's and Muslims.

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Ms_Mafdet_The Great: And you guys are STILL going, WOW.

SWlNE:
Who's going? My comments are to Ghostgeek as a discussion. Not sure what Davidk14 is going on about seems unrelated.

ghostgeek: What seems to get overlooked when Israel is being discussed is that the Palestinians are the descendants of the Jews who lived there in Roman times. They may have changed their religion once or twice but they have as much a claim on the land as any "returning" Jew.

ghostgeek: According to official Israeli data cited by the human rights organization Adalah, by the turn of the 21st century Israel was investing three times as much on a per capita basis in the education of a Jewish as opposed to that of a Palestinian citizen.

The consequences are obvious. Schools for Palestinians in Israel are overcrowded and poorly equipped, lacking in libraries, labs, arts facilities and recreational space in comparison with schools for Jewish students. About a quarter of Israeli schoolchildren are Palestinian. But as a recent study by the Assn. for the Advancement of Civic Equity points out, the higher you go in the system, the lower the number of Palestinian students.

Sounds a lot like apartheid in South Africa.

[ http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-makdisi-why-support-the-academic-boycott-of-israel-20160108-story.html ]