Is Israel going crazy? (Page 2)

Outbackjack: The U.N resolution making Israel return to pre 1967 borders this is an old resolution that was made decades before Hamas even existed.

Hamas has even stated that it will bring in a 10 year ceasefire if Israel does this but Israel repeatedly ignores the U.N resolution.

CoIin: "You ask that I not misrepresent you yet you state I construct effigies of Mike Tyson the rapist? Seriously?" - David


You see, David, you're doing it again. You entirely miss the point of my straw-man analogy (whether deliberately or through sheer incompetence I cannot say) and now appeal to the emotions of your audience, attempting to smear me by drawing a connection between myself and a rapist.

You underestimate your audience. We see precisely what you're doing. And it's quite pathetic.

Don't like Mike Tyson? Ok, make it Muhammad Ali instead. Or will you now go searching for some Ali scandals too to smear me with? Here's a better idea, let's just make it "Really Tough Boxer With No Name".

I refuse to be drawn into the name-calling, but it's not at all hard to sympathize with the exasperation felt by other posters. You do try people's patience, David, with your dishonorable tactics.

slasian: As anyone can see, davidk is not 'smart' enough to understand what 'the double standard' means.

In simple terms (Oh I had to make it as simple as it can be otherwise davidk will accuse me of inventing it )

A double standard is an instance in which certain concepts are perceived as acceptable to be applied by one group of people, but are considered unacceptable—taboo—when applied by another group.

Now what is terrorism?

Again in simple terms it is a deliberate act of killing non-combatants, and attacking or destroying civilian areas (buildings, market places and public transports)

Hamas is engaged in the above activities pretty much. Hence Hamas is a terrorist. Furthermore, the actions of Hamas has to be condemned and punished.

The government of Israeli is pretty much engaged in the same activity too. Hence The Israeli government is also a terrorist who deserves to be punished and condemned as well.

Now, to a more non controversial topic

As I have clearly demonstrated in my above post that Lehi, once an Israeli 'freedom fighter' political party, has openly engaged in terrorism embracing it as their only option, how on earth can one say, "no theirs is not an act of terrorism that deserves to be condemned"? And how can it be logical to condemned Hams but not Lehi?

My stand is that both are condemned or both are accepted and there is no valid logic to accept one and deny the other. For those of you who still do not understand the double standard this is the time to see it up closely.

Colin astutely point out, how about the genocide committed by the Jewish army in the old testament? Yes, what should be our stand on it: are we going to approve it, as yitzhak shamir has boldly suggested that it should be taken as a good example of how a Jewish fighter should act against its 'enemy'? Or are we going to learn from it as a very bad thing that should never be repeated again?

I believe, Outbackjack's question is a very critical one? The international community should ask, "Is Israel going crazy?"

I think most immature people can never understand what the double standard is, it must be hell to live with such mind! Yet, if we are going to apply a certain rule, by all means, it should be the scale for every one, 'to us' and 'to them', and it is not acceptable for Israel to kill thousands of innocent people every year in the name of self defense as it is not acceptable for Hamas to kill, even if it is very less than the Israeli are killing, in the name of freedom fighting.

I wonder how on earth can someone smear my good name in a way that I am a Nazi sympathizer and a blind supporter of Hamas. In my thread "How Legal Is it: Israel Killing a Nations leader: I had stated more than in 50 posts that Hamas currently is a terrorist organization and, if it wants to be embraced by the international community as the legitimate leader of the Palestinian people, it should change its strategy.

Oh one more thing, Israel is not defending her self at all. The presence of Israel in Palestine is illegal and all the settlements are illegal by the international law. The government of Israel is not defending, and starting from 1967 it is colonizing! So far they have demolished more than 10, 000 Palestinian's houses and built nearly 40,000 illegal Jews settlements. So even the terrorism committed by the Israeli government is worse than that of Hamas. Another thing you guys should know is that Hamas had never claimed war against the Jew race, it just fight the illegal ones in Palestine. Had you ever heard of Hamas attack out side that area, had you ever heard a Hamas attack on Jews in US, England or any other place? So davidk, how on earth are we expected to believe a white lie such as: "Hamas wants to wipe the Jew race from the face of the earth" eh how? What all the evidence shows is that Hamas wants the Jews out of Palestine!

Edit= @Colin, The name calling thing is for experiment, do you remember the 'Why do you hate my gut?" thread Yet, with david aka dud it is my policy! Are we not going to call a spade a spade

pilgrim12: Unless your back is to the wall and you have been in a situatation of a me and him wiki wont help or any other post you ever see on the net again like all posts on here its what others say,who? do you know them? you take statistics ( what are they) they been there ,did it? nah like most on here they put posts up,do it,be there,do it,thats the learning ,the snake,outback jack ohh yeah what is yogoslavia ? haha well i was with under a NATO mandate security for the international criminal tribunal under the UN protercorate.140,ooo,ethnic cleansing,so no not a thing to talk of,i seen more than you will ever see no not wiki.

anym: Another thread that could have been interesting & informative, totally F**ked by people using it as an excuse to slam each other; "I said, you said" - what a pathetic waste of space. Why don't you just message each other and clear the forum for actual addressing of topics?

Shame on the whole bunch of you.

CoIin: This coming from a person largely responsible for the deletion of my Philosophy of Mind thread through his posting of irrelevancies and profanities.

Yes, anym, perhaps if you'd practiced a little more assiduously what you preach so self-righteously, staying on topic rather than flirting with filth, a cherished thread that I'd nurtured over many months might not have been destroyed so needlessly.

You may or may not have noticed the way I deliberately played down your role in the whole fiasco to protect you (on the grounds that you HAD made intelligent contributions to the thread prior to your inexcusable paroxysm of profanity).

Shame on yourself.

anym: For the record, In the Philosophy of Mind topic - which I enjoyed while it was ON topic, I simply responded to a gratuitous suggestion that I should "F**k off" with a humorous in-kind response that I was doing so. Of course the thread is gone so we can't check that.

But I don't intend to get sucked into even more "Yes you did; No I didn't" kind of silliness here, so I have no more to say about the matter.

Outbackjack: I guess this comes down to an ancient attribute anym:

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

anym: I did say I have no more to say about the matter - so I guess repeating it means I lied; but my intention was honourable

Anyway I really do have no more to say on the matter. The rest of you can have at 'er if you wish.

slasian: what a good way to stay on the topic!

Outbackjack, I wonder if you got the question correct, I believe it should be "Is the world going crazy when it comes to Israel"?

Any educated man reading almost all the well established western medias, will be amazed how the injustice of Israel is rationalized. Just read or listen to the media, which was supposed to be a watch dog, and you will be amazed to find that in fact our media has been the 'hunting hound' to a bunch of blood trusty governments.

The Atrocities committed by any other 'them' (could be Russia, Iran, Palestine or China) is reported in a very highly charged editorial tone while our, 'the us', crime is hushed.

I am very sure that very few people in the west know that Israel is the occupier and the Palestinians are the one who fight in self defense.

How many of us knows the real reason why the 1980 negotiation failed and how many of us knows while the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO) under Yasir Arafat recognized Israel in that time while Israel did not recognize Palestine. Yasir Arafat and the PLO with the Palestinian parliament had ”accepted the existence of Israel as a state in the region” and ”declared its rejection and condemnation of terrorism in all its forms.”

But it was rejected by both Washington and Tel Aviv and here is how our media, the New York Times, explained why they were not convinced:

"In Jerusalem, Israeli leaders discounted the Stockholm declaration and Mr. Arafat’s comments. Foreign Minister Shimon Peres characterized them as a ”cunning exercise in public relations.” What was needed, he said, was ”a commitment in reality” to an end to violence. Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir was similarly dismissive.

The United States has long said it would not deal with the P.L.O. until it stated unambiguously that it recognized Israel’s right to exist and United Nations Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338, which lay out the basis for a negotiated settlement and peace in the Middle East. The United States has also asked for an unequivocal statement that the P.L.O. renounces all forms of terrorism".

Is the world going crazy, the Palestininas had done everything they where asked but look how they were rejected. What can one do when all is corrupted? This was the cause for the first intifada.

Which of our media reports that Palestinian stone-throwers are met with Israeli snipers; gunmen, with helicopter gunships and tanks. They will never tell you that it is a war.

How many of us knows what the meaning of a Jewish nations means? Our Medias relentlessly bombard us with the theme that Israel is the only democratic nation in the middle east whilst that government is not a secular government. How on earth can we accept the fact that Israel as a Jewish State since 25% of the current population is actually non-Jewish? Is it a secular government? Did the Israeli government fits the requirement for a democratic government which is characterized by secularity? Yet Netanyahu’s demands, the rest of the world to accept the State of Israel as a "Jewish State".

The Palestinian right to national self-determination has repeatedly been endorsed by the UN yet Washington blocked it every time, why? I think it is Not Israel that is going crazy but the world!

anym: "This will require the elevation of pragmatism over ideology.
It will require that both sides give up rights.

- Rights.

Giving up rights is a hard thing to do. It will require that each side recognizes and acknowledges the pain and the suffering of the other.

And it will require an end to the hateful attitudes and speech that some on each side direct against the other."

John LeCarre - "Absolute Friends"

davidk14: .

Bravo !



.

ghostgeek: Both sides hate each other's guts. The only talking they'll be doing is with mortar fire.

anym: ghostgeek: "Both sides hate each other's guts."

Yes, it's very sad, and utterly disastrous. But nothing can last forever. At the end of the day what everyone hopes for is peace. Sadly it can take a very long time for opponents to see that the only way to get it, is to make it.

Captain Canada: I have said before and will say it again and again. This bullshit with peace talks, negotiations and cease fires and more of the same has been going on for many,many moons already
without any results and no matter how many more countless peace talks, negotiations and cease fires the results will be worthless AGAIN
NUKE THE F$%#+*&^ AREA .and no more noise from both sides
That's my opinion and I am sticking to it.

anym: Happy New Year.

davidk14: .

Captain Canada feels that murdering 8 - 10 million people is the answer. I believe someone tried that already and called it, "The Final Solution".

Never again.

.

anym: As a Canadian, I'm embarrassed by his outrageous appropriation of the word. I apologise to all and want to reassure that - although we have our full complement of unthinking yahoos - he's not our captain.

Captain Canada: Never asked to be your captain Mr.Anym and I do believe that such apologies are not necessary on your behalf, its my opinion and nothing more.
sorry if I am not political correct.
Question for Mr.Anym.How would you solve such situation and pleasing both parties??????

Mr David,How many countless innocent life's on both sides of this conflict have been lost over the decades?????
Mr David would you say 6 citizens on both sides over the decades??? maybe 18 on both sides????
Mr David How would you solve such situation?????
To both you Gentlemen to solve such crises don't insert the names of Hamas and the brotherhood of Muslim.
Let me just remind you two gents that to the Oppressed citizen a liberator is a Hero/Freedom fighter and to the Oppressor that hero is a Terrorist/Villain /Rebel / Killer.

anym: Captain: I wouldn't even hint I could solve the situation. The parties themselves, and only they, can do that. I simply react to your "solution" that we kill everyone indiscriminately.

I decry, as you claim to, the innocent lives lost. But next you recommend we nuke the whole territory and everyone in it?

As for using the names of Hamas or the brotherhood of Muslims or any other faction: I never had any intention of doing so; you are the one who raised them. I take no sides in any of these disputes. I believe that their roots go back so many decades or centuries, and are so complex, that I would never be able to unravel whether anyone is ultimately justified in their actions to date, morally or legally.

I lived through the second world war in Britain. My parents & grandparents lived through BOTH wars. But my friend is married to a very nice German lady he met during air force service in Germany not long after the war. Her father may well have been a Nazi; almost certainly a combatant but no one asks. How many soldiers fought willingly?

I don't need you or anyone else to "remind" me about the grim realities and sometimes bizarre relationships surrounding oppression, liberation and killing. They have been all too obvious, and even close to home, during my lifetime.

Please don't encourage nuking anyone anywhere.

Outbackjack: Peace talks are the only way forward.ANY solution requires clear communication between both sides.It has been done in Northern Ireland and nobody can underestimate how much the Protestants and Catholics hated each other for over four hundred years ( in fact the Normans started the whole thing when they invaded Ireland in the 12th Century).

The Protestants had an unfair advantage at the time as they were backed by the British and held most of the power.The British being under pressure to help broker a peace deal swung the Pendulum back in the form of a power sharing agreement.

The same needs to be done in Israel. The U.S and the world needs to stop funding Israel the billions of dollars in arms money each year and back a peace deal that takes away Israels unfair advantage.

davidk14: .

Hamas needs to be disarmed before any peace deal. Punishing Israel before disarming Hamas gives Hamas, you know, the terror organization created by the Muslim Brotherhood,whose sole purpose for being created for the murder of Jews, an unfair advantage.

By not eliminating Hamas, Hezbolla and the other Islamic radical extremists, sends a message that terror and murder pays...kill enough people and the world will give you whatever you want.

.

Outbackjack: *Ignores Davidk

davidk14: .

Hiding your head in the sand ignoring the facts and the reality of Hamas and radical extremist Islam doesn't work Jack. Especially when you know I am right.

.

anym: Outbackjack: Ignores Davidk
- Who goes on relentlessly Blahblahblahblah
OJB, please continue ignoring all childishly one-sided declaratory propaganda.
Here, I'll help you ..... (goes elsewhere)