Why can't Muslims Take Criticism? (Page 158)
Blackshoes: God cannot be condemned in any way for what he does with his creation!
Our existence is and has always been a product of his grace.
To say otherwise is to pretend that the creation, has control over its own existence.
Zanjan: Well, we're not exactly puppets but we're pretty close to it. I mean, you can react any way you like to an event but the event is pre-destined. Your parents were pre-destined to meet; your birthday and death day and the colour of your eyes was pre-destined. Your craft/occupation is pre-destined. Every hair on your head is counted.
Somewhere I read that every human name during that particular dispensation is written down in scripture - that is, in advance; well, that's when names had a standard meaning. Baha'u'llah confirmed this was also true for the Quran (doesnt matter whether the individual is a good or bad character).
The mother is particularly inspired at the time of the birth. (I remember that time) Nowadays, they just invent new names and new combination spellings so not sure how that works.
Zanjan: "No choice, no guilt."
You've got a choice (free will), it's just that you don't know what it is in advance. God knows. Look at Judas, God made him to be a special kind of villain - he served a purpose, God's purpose. Even God's enemies are in His hand.
Zanjan: I know myself really well - that is, the kind of person I am. I know my limitations but not always my strengths.
For example, I can't kill (other than very small insects); nothing can make me do it. That doesn't mean I can't cause someone's death. I mean, inadvertently. I have to think carefully about what my action/inaction will be so it will cause the least harm.
My biggest weakness is emotional control when seeing animal cruelty. I've always known I'll lose it and attack the attacker, regardless of the odds of me coming out the winner. So why did God test me on this???
He chose a fine time to do it too!! I was on pilgrimage in Israel, of all places, climbing those long stairs up Mount Carmel, towards the Shrine of the Bab. Way up ahead on the stairs, I heard a small dog screaming painfully and saw some young girls kicking the poor wee thing.
I started running up the stairs, mighty furious, thinking I was going to be in trouble because I was a guest in this country. As I ran, I said a prayer : "God, think of something to get me out of this because those girls are gonna get it when I reach them!" I had no idea what I was going to do to them but they were gonna get it good.
About 4 stairs away, the dog found a spot to roll under the railing and slipped off somewhere. Fortunately, he wasn't yelping after that so I didn't need to scour the mountainside looking for him. I breathed a sigh of relief.
Everything that happened to me while on pilgrimage was a spiritual lesson but this one, I'll never know what exactly would have happened. That was 28 years ago and I haven't had this same test return....yet.
So, in retrospect, I guess it wasn't a test after all - it was God's protection from myself.
ghostgeek: How can an all-knowing God grant His creations free will? It would mean God didn't know everything.
Blackshoes: No! Free will, makes perfect sense! I knew that my children would one day die Yet I still choose to have children.In a way' that makes me a killer. But I chose to have children because I wanted to bestow my love on them.
God knew the devil would turn against him. Was God unjust to create an angel so as to bestow his love or his warth on him? Well, that depends on where you're sitting on the last day If you're an unbeliever and sitting with the devil you may feel it unjust. However, if you choose to follow God and his Son and sitting with Jesus you will not see anything God has done as wrong or unjust
We all use toilets ! Is God unjust to create toilets and sunshine?
Zanjan: Ghost,that God granted free will means He DOES know everything. He's not dependant on our choice. Our free will doesn't control anything - it's confined to our inner selves and our relationship with God.
In short, free will is the choice to love or not to love.
For example, if I told my spouse what I wanted for my birthday and he bought me that, could these actions be called a genuine expression of love? I don't think so. The object might be pleasing but the action wouldn't for three reasons;
1. We both did something predictable. 2. I was selfish and didn't give him a chance to express himself or even forget. 3. He didn't know me well enough to intuit something else that would have delighted me. I might as well have just bought it myself.
Love needs to develop and mature until it becomes unconditional. Look at all these believers who are religious only because they want to go to heaven and fear the fiery furnace. They're bribed. That's not love. However, it's a relationship that keeps order so counts as willing servitude on the first step of the ladder.
If I had to tell you to love me, what good is that to me?
God gave us free will so there could be a way to express *genuine* love. He can tell the difference but that would be impossible without the faculty of free will.
Zanjan: If we know God well enough, we'd do what pleased Him. How can the grateful heart give a gift to God, Who has it all? Genuine love will answer that question.
Zanjan: Having said that, I'm posting this from another topic:
This week, a gunman opened fire on a church in Texas, killing two people before the church's volunteer security guards shot him dead. The news interviewed the guards, who explained how they have had years of intensive training.
Why on earth would a church have its own membership packing guns for protection? Maybe they don't believe they're under God's protection anymore? It's not gunmen they should be fearing.
Early believers didn't weaponize. The greatest gift one can give to God is martyrdom for one's Faith in Him, not for anything else.
Blackshoes: OMG,Zan You can justify almost anything you believe. It is a God-given right and a biblical principle to defend yourself and others.
Just imagine had the public been able to defend themself against Nazis in 1939.
Just imagine if we were allowed to defend the babies that are being killed every day throughout the world and stop the genocide.
Hiding behind the cloak of belief in God. Is cowardly and not at all what Moses or Abraham would have done.
1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
2 A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
5 A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
6 A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
7 A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.
9 What profit hath he that worketh in that wherein he laboureth?
10 I have seen the travail, which God hath given to the sons of men to be exercised in it.
11 He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end.
12 I know that there is no good in them, but for a man to rejoice, and to do good in his life.
13 And also that every man should eat and drink, and enjoy the good of all his labour, it is the gift of God.
14 I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.
15 That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past.
16 And moreover I saw under the sun the place of judgment, that wickedness was there; and the place of righteousness, that iniquity was there.
17 I said in mine heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked: for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work.
18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.
19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.
21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?
22 Wherefore I perceive that there is nothing better, than that a man should rejoice in his own works; for that is his portion: for who shall bring him to see what shall be after him?
ghostgeek: God creates from a position of perfect knowledge ( so it's said ). Therefore He knows what all His creations will do from first to last. That means He could have created them so they'd do something different. God controls every aspect of creation, meaning there is no free will.
Leda Muir: It depends on how they see it because God killed more people than the Devil did and the Devil only showed God that God couldn't stop him making a point while God murdered 1000s of people just to make a point he could and people still would have faith in him but that faith is it loyalty or just fear because God was a serial killer
Blackshoes: That's like saying that a king is responsible for all those that have broken his laws. Because he refuses to destroy everyone that has the desire to do wrong
ghostgeek: What happened to Thor and Loki when people stopped believing in them? They became characters in a comic.