Why can't Muslims Take Criticism? (Page 145)
ghostgeek: After all, we know that their central premise, that Jesus would return within the lifetime of his followers, is wrong. After nearly two thousand years people are still waiting for him to show up.
Zanjan: Ghost: "The Baha'i scriptures must be getting on for a hundred and thirty years old"
Baha'i scriptures are 175 years old. The Revelation of the Bab is included with the Revelation of Baha'u'llah because They were contemporaries as Twin Manifestations of God - that's a historical precedent. Thus, the Baha'i Calendar began in 1844.
I think you're off the mark a little - the gate to the Kingdom of God was opened during the lifetime of Jesus's followers; the Holy Spirit was available to them only until the coming of the next Promised One.
That's the return of Christ - it was to be expected at the end of His dispensation. Yes, some people are still waiting; for the Hindu's, it's been around 5 thousand years. This should tell you some people simply aren't ready to trot off with any Promised One.
That's understandable - He expects more than what they've been giving.
Blackshoes: Jesus never said that he would return during the lifetime of his follower! According to the scriptures believers never taste death.
Second, those that were there did see Jesus go into his Kingdom.
16:28. Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
(Edited by Blackshoes)
Zanjan: "According to the scriptures believers never taste death."
Apparently, they did. Scriptures say the *second* death would have no effect on them.
" Jesus go into his Kingdom."
Slip that into reverse - He came with His Kingdom" - that was the point of His mission. "The Kingdom is at hand".
Same point of Muhammad's mission. They come to redeem the people, not a religion. The Arabs knew all about Moses and Jesus but were still pagans......until they accepted Muhammad.
Blackshoes: Jesus is sitting at the right hand of God ruling his kingdom from heaven. The promise is two-fold God kingdom on earth was present tense and also future tense.
The second death will only occur at the great white throne judgment. After the1000 year reign of Christ on earth.
Zan again you lack a great deal of understanding of what the scriptures say
ghostgeek: Matthew 16:28 - Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
Blackshoes, are you saying that Jesus' manky, old followers are still alive after nearly two thousand years? They must look like pickled herrings by now.
Blackshoes: Yes and No ',they died in the Flesh' they still live today in heaven.
So they are alive and will see God kingdom come. It has already come " the church "however God kingdom here on earth when God Rules with an iron rod has not been established and will only come after Jesus returns.
(Edited by Blackshoes)
Zanjan: Shoes: "The second death will only occur at the great white throne judgment. After the1000 year reign of Christ on earth."
That thousand-year reign expired long ago. If you insist that it hasn't, then Christ never reigned.
If something has occurred, there will be plenty of evidence of its reality on earth. Christ was glorified immediately after His crucifixion; faith increased and civilization advanced as the Age of Reason and the concept of Federation appeared.
Enlightenment shone on all humanity, technology improved, and exploration began. Surprisingly, except for a few in Alexandria, for the next 500 years, all the new inventions occurred in China. This was China's second response to the Light (its first response was because of the Buddha). From 550 -1750 AD, all the world's inventions were inspired by the Light Muhammad brought; most remarkable was the first leap in the development of the arts.
After a relatively short period in time, Christianity's institutions began to crumble and splits in the church occurred. I point to the well-known negative history that followed and the multitude of things they did in the darkness.
That a religion has geographically spread with greatly increased membership isn't the definition of its glory. The ranks of the wicked are always more numerous.
Zanjan: By the way, anyone who's in heaven is IN the Kingdom of God, where nothing comes or goes. The hereafter is called eternity because there's no time or space. Earth is the contingent world - that is, where all things must pass.
Thus, the moment the Revelator appears, the Kingdom of God on earth is at hand - it's established. After a certain number of generations, it passes but will eventually return.
Blackshoes: Wrong again Zan You can preach whatever Doctrine you believe It doesn't change what God Word states.
"Movies can be so absorbing that we are easily “transported” until the final credits thrust us back to real life. Yet more amazing than any film is what Christians will experience at Jesus’ return.
The apostle Paul urges believers to become familiar with what will occur at that remarkable time (1 Thessalonians 4:13). Just imagine.
What we will hear: Jesus “will descend from heaven with a shout” (1 Thessalonians 4:16). Perhaps the Lord will say something similar to the words He spoke when raising Lazarus back to life: “Come forth!” (John 11:43). The voice of the archangel Michael—the leader of the angelic host—and a heavenly trumpet will also be heard, calling the saints to assemble.
What we will see: The Lord will come down from above (Acts 1:11), to be met in the air by newly resurrected deceased saints and then, a moment later, by “translated” living believers.
What we will feel: Though it’s impossible to know exactly what the experience will be like, we can expect it to be magnificent. We’ll be transformed physically: unlike our present body, our new form won’t be susceptible to pain, sin, sickness, or death. And in an instant, we will be brought into the presence of our heavenly Father, to remain with Him eternally.
It’s not hard to become disheartened by the materialism, selfishness, and hopelessness of this world. However, we can encourage one another - and ourselves - with a reminder about Jesus’ return (1 Thessalonians 4:18). So when hardships get you down, think about this exciting event in your future. The best is yet to be!"
By Charles Stanley
Blackshoes: "As Jesus laments Jerusalem’s impending judgment, He connects the destruction of the “house”—the temple—with His second coming: “See, your house is left to you desolate. For I tell you, you will not see me again, until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord’ ” (Matt 23:38–39). Earlier, in Matthew 23:36, Jesus warns that the judgment will come on “this generation.” His prophecy was correct: Although some of the retaining wall survived, the temple proper was completely destroyed in AD 70. Does Jesus’ connection of these events indicate that His second coming has come and gone already?
Come and Gone
We could conclude that Jesus came back figuratively in Jerusalem’s destruction, but later verses in this context suggest that Jesus intended a literal coming.
Jesus warns His disciples to discredit prophets claiming that He was on earth; rather, His coming would be like lightning shining from east to west (24:26–27). Borrowing the language of Daniel, Jesus promises to come “on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory” (24:30). He notes that the tribes of earth would mourn at His coming—not just Jerusalem, but all the earth (24:30). His visible coming will affect the entire earth.
Now and Later
So, if Jesus ties these events together, what was He intending the disciples to take away from His message?
When Jesus predicts the destruction of the temple in 24:1–2, His disciples ask two questions: “When will these things (i.e. the destruction of the temple) be?” and “What will be the sign of your coming and of the close of the age?” (24:3).
Jesus answers both questions, but He doesn’t distinguish which one He is answering. He states that “these things” would be fulfilled within a generation (24:34). But He specifies that no one could know the hour of His coming—“not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only” (24:36).
Signs and Non-Signs
Jesus answers the question about the sign of His coming only after He lists many non-signs. In His day, many of His contemporaries claimed that earthquakes and wars were signs of the end. Jesus warns that people will see these events long before the end—but the end is “not yet” (24:6–8).
The only explicit sign of His coming would follow a period of tribulation, when His sign would appear in the sky: At His coming He will gather His followers with the sound of a trumpet (24:29–31).
Finally, Jesus gives one prerequisite for the end that was not fulfilled within His generation: When the good news of the kingdom has been proclaimed among all peoples, then the end will come (24:14). If we live in anticipation of Jesus’ return, there’s a part we can play"
By Greg S. Keneer
Zanjan: Amusing how people like to elaborate on something they believe will happen in the future, carrying on as if they were part of the whole thing themselves. Pretty hard to convince anyone they know anything about it.
Even more amusing are the Christians who aren't interested in hearing from someone who claims to have been resurrected. No, no, they say, that just doesn't fit into their storyline.
*Jesus* doesn't return - reincarnation is a pagan belief. What merciful God would send a man back to the same hell hole, after having dwelt in heaven so long? Only cruel humans could fabricate that.
The Spirit of the Christ returns through a new Revelator. So it was that Gabriel visited Muhammad and declared His appointment. No one could wish Judaism away, neither can they wish Islam away.
Shoes, this topic isn't about the Bible.
Blackshoes: Like I've have stated many times Zan. You haven't a clue of what the Bible states.
Jesus will return! All your assumptions, doctrines, and religious dogmas cannot change the fact that will happen.
24:25. Behold, I have told you before.
24:26. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
24:27. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
24:28. For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
24:29. Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
24:30. And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
24:31. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
24:32. Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
24:33. So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
24:34. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
24:35. Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
24:36. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
24:37. But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
24:38. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
24:39. And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Zanjan: Go ahead and rag on Jesus, then see what Christians do. They don't care so they don't add anything to the table. Ask them why they have Jesus bobbleheads in their cars. Some of them just will just insult back.
Muslims do care. It takes a Muslim to civilize the Christians and heathens, informing them when they've over-stepped the bounds of respect and decency. Perhaps some Muslims still have hope for such people; for sure, they're more concerned about the example being set for the children.
ghostgeek: Mmm ... back to those caring Muslims is it? Seen the news lately?
Nigerian police said Friday they had found and freed more than 300 men and boys from a school in the northern city of Kaduna. Many of them reported being tortured and sexually abused, and about 100 were found chained in one of the school buildings.
"We found around 100 students including children as young as 9, in chains stuffed in a small room all in the name of reforming them and making them responsible persons," police spokesman Yakubu Sabo told the AFP news agency. Sabo said the victims had been kept in "debasing and inhuman conditions."
The Islamic school specialized in children who were suffering from drug-related issues and similar problems.
The parents were apparently not allowed inside the premises and instead were meeting students outside.
"All they thought was their children are being taught the Quran and good manners as they looked subdued," Sabo added.
[ https://www.dw.com/en/nigeria-police-free-chained-abused-children-from-islamic-school/a-50605407 ]
Zanjan: There are whackos everywhere - inside and outside of religion. Looks like those guys were operating behind everyone's backs, using religion as a cover, knowing it was wrong. One doesn't correct that with another wrong.
It's wrongful to look at the negatives while discarding the positives. That's fault-finding. What are the means of correcting the scales of justice when people are oppressed?
Cultures differ in how the people understand the world around them so, there has to be a standard of fair treatment to offset disagreement and confusion. When in doubt, we have a Universal Charter of Human Rights to refer to.
We ought to think about what we're doing - what sort of seeds are we sowing for the future? Are they seeds of dissension, prejudice, and hatred, or seeds of love, understanding, and unity?
You decide what sort of garden you'll grow but I guarantee if you grow something ugly, no one will be interested in coming to visit.
ghostgeek: You claim to know all about religion, so explain the following:
KEHRORE PAKKA, Pakistan (AP) — Kausar Parveen struggles through tears as she remembers the blood-soaked pants of her 9-year-old son, raped by a religious cleric. Each time she begins to speak, she stops, swallows hard, wipes her tears and begins again.
The boy had studied for a year at a nearby Islamic school in the town of Kehrore Pakka. In the blistering heat of late April, in the grimy two-room Islamic madrassa, he awoke one night to find his teacher lying beside him.
“I didn’t move. I was afraid,” he says.
The cleric lifted the boy’s long tunic-style shirt over his head, and then pulled down his baggy pants.
“I was crying. He was hurting me. He shoved my shirt in my mouth,” the boy says, using his scarf to show how the cleric tried to stifle his cries. He looks over at his mother.
“Did he touch you?’” He nods. “Did he hurt you when he touched you?” ″Yes,” he whispers.
“Did he rape you?” He buries his face in his scarf and nods yes.
Parveen reaches over and grabs her son, pulling him toward her, cradling his head in her lap.
[ https://apnews.com/ddd9660f63ae4433966684823f79d3e9 ]
Seems there are an awful lot of negatives.
Zanjan: "so explain the following:"
The story is self explanatory. However, it's you who needs to explain why you've overlooked the many abominations of those not in religion. Are you saying they should be excused?
Personally, I don't pick favourites among those who dwell in hell.
Zanjan: Since the story was reported, we should feel confident the perp was arrested and is in jail. However, it wouldn't be a surprise if he isn't there - it's well-known how corrupt Pakistan is. Who corrupted them - was it the militants or the atheists before they became militants?
If there's a king of atheists, where is he?
Seems the difference between the Easterners and Westerners is the Easterners don't wait 20 years to report the wrongdoing.
ghostgeek: Isn't Pakistan supposed to be one of the more religious countries? Somehow I doubt there are many atheists walking around in that part of the world.
Zanjan: Yes; there are several different religions in Pakistan, and not all of its people are corrupt.
The corrupted definitely don't believe in God. Whether they're in or out of the closet is a different question.