History is a Guilt Trip? Metaverseguy: Do you think history focuses too much on warfare, or that it's a sad and pathetic truth to our past? With quotes like "winners write history", "all war is deception", "those who don't learn the mistakes of the past, repeat them", "without the brave efforts of all the soldiers, sailors, airmen..."; it seems like textbooks are often contradictory and confusing, trying to teach us a lesson, but afraid to give us the full answer. It's not like a book that has a straight-forward beginning, middle and end but rather a collage of missing, pasted together , unreliable facts and misleading finger-pointing. Do you think the authors purposefully do this, to show us the many perspectives of war? Or on the other hand, that it is careless book writing?  duncan124: Violent events are traumatic and alter everything. But maybe you are right and a history of the good things which people have enjoyed could be made---before they are all destroyed by the violent thugs. Metaverseguy: True. I think it would be a fine idea to write a long book or create a big documentary just ignoring war and talking about all the other events that went on. Usually only a small population of people are active in war at any one time, anyways. Metaverseguy: Here's some interesting stats about war, after looking it up online. -According to W.J.Durant, from 3421 years of documented history, there are only 268 years without war. -In Nashville, TN there was an exhibit called 23 Years Without War Since 1000 A.D. -According to wikipedia there have been "only been 26 days of world-wide peace since 1945" NY Times published an interesting article called "What every person should know about war" in 2003. Link: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/07/06/books/chapters/0713-1st-hedges.html  davidk14: . Ladies and gentlemen, It would be a good idea to document history. And it's called....books. Hundreds of thousands of books have been written about the good, the bad, and the ugly. It's all how you look at those three elements in some sort of balance. You can't get away from the truth. .  The13th: We can still include war, but l love to know what actually lead to the war. To learn from history we need to know all these deep dark secret. We also need to know the alternative like: what if Hitler overrun Stalin? What sort of world are we looking at now?
Metaverseguy: what lead to war in 20th century off the top of my head --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ww1 - franz ferdinand ww2 - germany invades poland korean war - 38th parallel creates division inside country from ww2 vietnam war - gulf of tonkin iran-contra - cia meddles with iran over nationalizing oil persian-gulf ?? iraq-war - twin-towers bombing revolutions in ukraine -- conflicted groups split over europe/russia israel - sunnis, shiites, everyone wants to put their countrys name on that area Sure, history is about understanding the "truth" of past events. What I'm trying to get at is usually the shit has hundreds of different perspectives, many biased, from many different types of people involved. Sure college level classes are more detailed and comprehensive, but obviously it's still just a fucking excuse. Some shit happens in Antarctica do you think a potato farmer is going to give up his duties, buy a ticket to some iceberg and risk his life fighting for it? Wars aren't fought by 100% of the population or even 100% of the countries on the planet. They can easily be ignored. Maybe the whole reason they escalate is because people pay so much attention to them and make it a bigger thing that it really is. The13th: Not in Antarctica. But england France Russia Germany is an altogether different story. The situation in Europe is very similar to 4 or 5 lone gunman in a pub, all speculating who is going to make the first move. Then a couple of them start making alliance and increase the unbearable tension. The guy who get isolated feel he need to make the first move to have any chance. Elsewhere in he pub all sorts of menuvering is going on (mostly undocumented, which is what I want to know), to a point when the king or whoever decided that the nations destiny is affected. At some point, someone decide to settle score once and for all and get out of the pub to start shooting. The shooting get written most, but what happen inside he pub that lead to the war is often not told.  Captain Canada: Well said there Mr. Boyzz. plain and simple. If only people knew the facts and dealings prior to a war,they would revolt against their leaders  lori100: All wars are manufactured by the power elites for their own agenda......they don't just 'happen'......Rothschilds are the ruling banking family who fund the wars....they will create violence in any country that refuses a Rothschilds Central Bank.......---------------"If my sons did not want wars, there would be none." Gutle Schnaper Mayer Amschel Rothschild's wife------------------Baron Nathan Mayer Rothschild, quotes about Banking: I care not what puppet is placed on the throne of England to rule the Empire, ...The man that controls Britain's money supply controls the British Empire. And I control the money supply. -----------------------J. P. Morgan, quotes about Banking : Capital must protect itself in every way... Debts must be collected and loans and mortgages foreclosed as soon as possible. When through a process of law the common people have lost their homes, they will be more tractable and more easily governed by the strong arm of the law applied by the central power of leading financiers. People without homes will not quarrel with their leaders. This is well known among our principle men now engaged in forming an imperialism of capitalism to govern the world. By dividing the people we can get them to expend their energies in fighting over questions of no importance to us except as teachers of the common herd. ----------------------------------..interesting you state the twin towers were bombed, not destroyed by planes....first responders said the same thing.... (Edited by lori100) Metaverseguy: Lori100, I don't mean to start up conspiracy theories. I know you love them. I must have accidentally pushed bombing (or b0mbing if Homeland Security is watching) on my keyboard when I meant plane crashing. Although it could be thought of as an airborne explosive. Btw, here's a little joke for you: How could 9/11 be an inside job if the planes crashed into the outside of the building? Interesting that you suspect wars aren't started by the countries civil servants, but by the bankers who would turn their spouses and children into gold if they had the Midas touch. lori100: Many witnesses and firemen reported bombs going off right before the collapse of the towers,---videos of them stating it. The power elites have always manipulated , funded, supplied both sides of wars.......the Bushes have a long history of doing just that while claiming their friends are our enemies.....--------------The Best Enemies Money Can Buy - From The Wilderness www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/carlyle.html The Best Enemies Money Can Buy. From Hitler To Saddam Hussein to Osama bin Laden - Insider Connections and the Bush Family's Partnership with Killers of Americans...... davidk14: . As i have asked before...many times...over the years....show me one inch of blasting cord....one ounce of explosive....one person or anyone that knew a person or persons...who would have had to place the hundreds if not thousands of pounds of explosives, wiring, etc. Just one will do. Thanks. . The13th: Lori what were u doing on the day of 911? For me its the night of 911 I was at home and suddenly there is a news break. And my brother in law ask me to come out quick to take a look. Stunt, all I can judge is the plane is flying, not stalling when it hit the building. Then shortly after another plane hit. And it takes the commentator to reminds me that this is a deliberate act.
The13th: I have a chance to visit Boston in 2005. Things are not so sensitive by them, but when I take a peek at the x ray machine (may be I am not suppose to), the old security guard suddenly look fifghtingly angry. May be he still remember how he let those bastards get through his guard, together with lots of innocent people. lori100: On 911 I was watching it as it happened. I knew immediately it was our govt creating a 'terrorist' event to get public support for yet another war. It was obvious the fall of the towers was a controlled demolition, anyone could see their freefall. Within a couple of hours the reporters stated it was Osama Bin Laden's plot......how did they know?? Was it on their scripts? Metaverseguy: Al Qaeda took responsibility for the terrorist attacks and all the reporters that were being beheaded and kidnapped in the middle-East. Furthermore, for the train bombings and hundreds of suicide bombers that showed up all over the news. We were lucky it didn't escalate into something bigger. The13th: I'll be damned. George W Bush, despite Harvard graduated, is not the kind that strike me as capable of orchestrating such a faultless plot. Knowing him from his countless dumb and dumberer moments getting caught on camera. Osama probably will exposed him before has has a chance to say "cheese". lori100: W. Bush went to Yale, a member of Skull and Bones like his dad and John Kerry----though different parties they are frat brothers. I doubt W. was in charge of 911....Cheney, maybe... The13th: Sigh ..must be one of my more prominent short coming ...I tend to have better faith with characters of various kind and believe they are mostly jolly good fellow ...  jadeforgaz: Personal I find history amazing n very fascinating not to mention educational I don't just study wars I also look at science medical religion evolution kings and queens but yh war is the big one it's a shame people can't learn to just sort it out over a nice dinner or a pint then again did that n we would have a pretty boring news n lots of people out of work world peace sounds nice n I would love to see no more blood shed but that day will happen when humankind is no longer here x Captain Canada: Peace is not feasible Wars must be created every single day regardless War is a way to keep economies afloat and control human population jadeforgaz: Yp unfortunately the way I look at it is humankind is full of greed we are never happy with what we got myself for example I'd rather have a better body and a nice house n car fair enough that's easy to make n sort out work out a lil more work n save the money up however others want land for oil or start something in the name of there (God) or control it is like that quote out of Thor from Loki we crave and thrive off control that is our human state without it we course war we need rules laws and our army and wars to keep use in line it is unfortunate truth but the amount of blood shed in a war that happens no side wins we all lose something more often then not family n freainds it's stupid not to mention how war has changed we used to meet on a battlefield n fight face to face swards n shields in hand men shouting as they charge n screaming when they were cut down know we invade country's hide amongst the civilians n the opposite force has no choice but to suspect all and it's just plain stupid to many innocents at stake to many lose there life but that's why it's called war one day people will learn but history always has a way of repeating itself x
jadeforgaz: Not only that but we learn what we are told to learn war is war and u always have proper gander it's one of those example the war of Vietnam how many countless innocents were killed is never really mentioned properly all that's mentioned is the troops but how much damage was done by both sides again not really specifically said unfortunately unless u are there on the frontline u will never know the ins and outs and even then u are only told one side example if u were on the front line and u knew u were only fighting for the land or the oil u would put ur weapon down and walk why kill millions for something so small this is a game that no-one wins x if we still fought like we did way way back meet in a open field swords and shields then hey call me evil but I wouldn't mind so much it's today's wars that really annoy me Coz most hide and will not confront the troops on a fair level they use dirty tactics and things but tbh I'd rather my children learn about the history of religion medicines and animal anatomy then the amount of time that is concentrated on war when I was doing my gcses the amount of time I had to learn about ww1 n 2 was annoying I didn't want to learn about it to say the truth never mind watch a film were its about the concentration camps n seeing actual futage I hated it had to walk out the room to many times as it was to close to home yes it was gd to learn about it but we spent more time listening n learning the British and American side of things then the German side reason being because they were the bad guys when to be honest to gear full pictures u need to learn both sides of the coin so to speak I would of love to learn the Germans side aswell it's not evil its education I used to argue with my teacher a hell of a lot about my opinions on what probs happened and y and got my info from people that lived it not books that's the only way to get a true picture but even memorys can lie x | Politics Chat Room 73 People Chatting Similar Conversations |