Southern states remain woefully uneducated
davesdatahut: Why do southern states continue to have such woefully low education levels?
The most recent census data shows that less than 25 percent of adults age 25 and older have a college degree in a majority of southern states. The ones that beat that measure barely do so, with Florida, Texas, North Carolina, Georgia having rates of 26, 26, 27 and 28 percent, respectively.
In some states, the rates are pathetic - 20 percent in Mississippi and Arkansas, 21 percent in Kentucky and Louisiana, 22 percent in Alabama. Indeed the only states outside the Deep South with rates below 25 percent are Nevada, Indiana and Ohio.
(for comparison purposes, 30 to 35 percent of adults in most northeastern and far-western states have degrees)
Many years ago, you could blame that on a southern agricultural economy that didn't need as many college educated people. But today? Why does this continue? Why has the mindset for higher education not changed in the South?
davesdatahut: That does correlate rather directly, indeed. It goes hand in hand. But why should religion and educational ignorance continue to perpeptuate itself?
lori100: well....if they really believe Jesus is coming back soon.....why bother with education...? You would be taken in the Rapture....
davesdatahut: That is the sad history of organized religion, in its worst forms. Get led by the nose by the nose because it's easier than the messy world of knowledge.
OCD_OCD: 1. number of illegal aliens
2. Generational reliance on welfare as support where education is not needed.
davesdatahut: OCD, number 1 isn't a valid explanation because illegal aliens don't fill out census forms. As for number 2, I'm not sure how this is on point? That would be the cart after house - ergo, a poor, under-educated area then would need to rely more on welfare.
I'm drawing the connection between a heavily religious culture and an array of social problems, from poverty to single-parenthood, and interested in how much of a connection there is in that.
OCD_OCD: The children of illegal aliens attend school, Dave. They are included in the drop-out rate.
OCD_OCD: I doubt that religion has anything to do with welfare or poverty. What studies are there as they relate to dropout rates of Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Atheists? I believe it is a societal and dependency issue, not one of religion.
davesdatahut: OCD, have you any reason to think the children of illegal aliens leave school any more or less than legal residents?
Besides, if they split, they probably are headed back to their home countries, which would kick them out of the data. So that is most likely not a significant factor.
As for the religious connection, or lack, perhaps you are right. I suspect the two are inter-connected, as religion generally does not encourage a great pursuit of secular knowledge among the poor. It tells them god is the answer...and the flock nods yes yes yes and gives their money, because it's just easier that way. It keeps them down and under control.
I'm certainly not suggesting that religion is the only factor, as we also know that it takes a long time to change the mindset of the under-educated to one that emphasizes advanced schooling.
What is your best theory on why the South lags so far behind in education and wealth, and so far ahead in some social problems?
OCD_OCD: Yes, I do.
This is not a "southern states" issue, nor is it a "religious" issue.
OCD_OCD: Foreign-born Hispanics (mostly from Mexico) compound problems associated with the already large relatively uneducated population. In 2008, 40% of foreign-born Hispanics 25 and older had less than a 9th grade education; 60% less than 12 years. Foreign-born Hispanics make up 37% of the population with less than a 9th grade education. Four percent of foreign-born from Mexico have a college degree, compared to 30% of foreign-born Asians. The lesson from California is that huge waves of immigrants from nations with low levels of educational attainment can devastate schools and in turn undermine the nation’s economic and social standing as a world power
davesdatahut: But, except for Texas and Florida, southern states have low percentages of Hispanic residents (less than 10 percent), so how does that play a major factor?
Some specific percentages - Mississippi, Missouri and Kentucky (3 percent), Alabama and Louisiana (4 percent), Tennessee and South Carolina (5 percent), Arkansas (6 percent), North Carolina (8 percent), Georgia (9 percent)
davesdatahut: As for California, 30 percent of adults have a college degree, so the Hispanics do not appear to be devastating their educational levels.
OCD_OCD: That's what I mean by saying that it is a social issue, not a religious one.
There is a pattern of generational welfare which negatively affects drop out rates. There is the issue of single parent households that greatly affects drop out rates.
There is no one single cause. Appalachian whites on welfare do not want their children to get educated because it will lower their monthly allotment.
"Probably at least twenty per cent of urban Appalachians live in slum or marginal
neighborhoods such as Over-the-Rhine (Cincinnati), Fifth and Wayne (Dayton), and
Uptown (Chicago). Displaced from pre-industrial rural areas or by automation in the
mining camps and lacking the education, skills, and cultural orientation required to
success in the city, many of these families have joined the urban underclass or the
marginal labor force. Life is full of conflict and stress for such families. Conflicts with
other ethnic group, the police, large and impersonal schools and social welfare agencies
and exploitation by inner city slumlords, pawn shops, finance companies, and furniture
stores seriously hinder any hope of upward mobility. In Cincinnati, many social welfare
and school workers regard this group of Appalachians to be the most difficult group in
the city to reach. A few agencies and schools have made efforts to adapt their programs
to the specific needs and psychology of these low income families but perhaps even more
often, members of the “helping professions” reject them and accept some version of the
stereotypes mentioned by Fowler to explain their own failure. High rates of crime,
juvenile delinquency, school failure, drug abuse, family breakup, and mental illness go
unabated. In Cincinnati, Appalachian school dropout rates in some school attendance
areas are as high as 75 percent."
Cincinnati, Dayton and Chicago are not part of the South.
Look at this chart. There is a point where welfare deincentivises people to get a job, or an education. Why bust your butt getting educated when you can make more money by not working and having no education?
This is by no means even an American anomaly, either.
"COPENHAGEN — It began as a stunt intended to prove that hardship and poverty still existed in this small, wealthy country, but it backfired badly. Visit a single mother of two on welfare, a liberal member of Parliament goaded a skeptical political opponent, see for yourself how hard it is.
It turned out, however, that life on welfare was not so hard. The 36-year-old single mother, given the pseudonym “Carina” in the news media, had more money to spend than many of the country’s full-time workers. All told, she was getting about $2,700 a month, and she had been on welfare since she was 16.
In past years, Danes might have shrugged off the case, finding Carina more pitiable than anything else. But even before her story was in the headlines 16 months ago, they were deeply engaged in a debate about whether their beloved welfare state, perhaps Europe’s most generous, had become too rich, undermining the country’s work ethic. Carina helped tip the scales." ...
(Edited by OCD_OCD)
ala_freaking_bama: dave you just a stirrer wantin to start stuff........you cannot be told anything cept what you tell ya self :sad:
davesdatahut: OCD, your points about generational dependency on the government are quite valid, and certainly important factors in why certain areas lag behind the rest of the country. But the places you cited aren't in the South. They're in the Midwest. Can you say the same things about the South?
davesdatahut: You replied in the first place. I replied back.
What about this thread strikes you as stupidity?
OCD_OCD: My point was that the same things happen in different areas for a multitude of different reasons, none of which have anything to do with religion or lack thereof.
OCD_OCD: I think it is a social breakdown, not a religious one. Since religion is not allowed in public schools, I can't see any correlation. Actually, there are probably less drop-out rates in private religious schools than there are non-religious public schools.