COMMUNISM ryan58581: welcome to the red party, only commies, and jews <_< even though im not commie i made this blog  (Post deleted by ryan58581 )  the real slim DEEPy: communism is an emotionally charged argument which replaces the positive notion of wealth with the negative prpogand a of "exploitation". when a man gives you a fish, how dare you insist that he must giove you 5 fishes a day for forever, then a year later, h you then demand 10 fishe a day. why would someone think that the offer of a wage for work is a disservice, and once someone is given a job, they can never lose it. the entire adgenda of communism was actually to rob the burguoise (middle class) of wealth, thus their chance to political influence. the business owners were not the upper class, those would be the nobility, who live off inheritances. the entire truck was to remove the middle class before they reached the elete class, essentially, a return to feaudalism, where you were granted the kings land but had to farm and pay most of your produce to the crown as tribute. communism sonds like a greaat concept, however, they lack a methematical foundation, as well as lakcing incentives for productivity. china is only growing economically because they have allowed private corporations to exist and to tax. china is only succeeduing due to the use of capitalism within the communist system. (Edited by the real slim DEEPy) the real slim DEEPy: only commies and "jews"? what is the point. try not to be so offended by my former description of communism. if those in htis thread wish to imprive on and make a workable communism, i ould be more than happt to contribute; alternatively, i will warn you of what will not work and why. communism is claimed to necessitate being global, however the increased land area infinitely decreases the eficciency of centrally planned economies. lenin founf early on that central planning and a war economy cannibalizzed each others resources, as in, the supply line was already weak enough between moscow and the rest of the country, meaing, they had no resounces left for a military supply line. they just didnt have enough bulk tansportation capacity to supply the armyt and the rest of the country. lenins solution was the "war economy", in which he allowed middlemen to profit off of the transporteation of goods within russia, so that goverment resources cound focus on supplying the troops. when stalin came to power, he immediately ended the practice, thusly requiring him to evacuate moscow, hoping that hitlers army would suffer the same failure as napoleom, instead of using the military resounces to move towards hitlers armies. eyes, the stratgy worked, but millions of russions were killed befor the germans outgrew their supply lines, and arrived to a moscow winter with no resources or adequate warmth to proceed. .communosm can be much more effective ion the small scale, as the communes of the hippies. the real slim DEEPy: heil is german - and slavic family languages use a cyrillic apphabet. there NEVER WAS a "ussr", it is "cccp". the real slim DEEPy: a "soviet" is a Labor Union. cccp would be interpreted as Communist Communion of (labor class/protolerant)Communes- P(R) epublic- Union of Socialist Soviet Republics is a direct translation, not an intelligent interpretation. and the cyrillic character for "R" is" P".AND the bourgeois, at the time of the red october revolution, this bourgeois class was not the wealthy ceo class, but the middle class of entrepreneurs, who were feared to rise to upper-class status, due to industrialization- which would threaten the noble class's monopoly on power. (Edited by the real slim DEEPy) Bumpa: Interesting thread. I'd like to point out that capitalism has proven not to work either. In USA the home of free enterprise, back in 1929 the govt deregulated Wall St. A few months later the world plunged into depression. in 2001 Bush moved to free up the banks even further, hey presto! Instant depression. Bumpa: In New Zealand there was a left wing govt under David Lange in 1983. Almost Socialist. NZ was one of the wealthiest nations on earth, then Lange appointed Roger Douglas, an arch capitalist as finance minister. Douglas proceeded to deregulate the economy, selling off state assets, reducing social spending and reducing tax for the top earners. Immediately NZ plunged into recession from which it has never recovered. Today the gap between rich and poor is the greatest in the OECD. The 2 great catchwords of capitalism: Deregulation and trickle Down are complete myths, designed to make the richest even richer, on the backs of the lowest paid. Sure they pay a little more tax which is then given out in welfare to the poorest but this immediately flows back to them as rent money, high food prices etc. Socialism is the only system of govt which has been proved to work but invariably a greedy person gains control and flips it upside down for their own benefit. Probably there is no hope for equality in the world as long as there are humans on earth. We will always have poverty, hunger, crime and wars as long as we have greed.  LiptonCambell: >>>I'd like to point out that capitalism has proven not to work either. Howso? Our society DEPENDS on capitialism to work, or else it'll collapse....the fact that it's still functioning proves that it works.... >>>in 2001 Bush moved to free up the banks even further, hey presto! Instant depression. How is that an example of capitalism? That's an example of government corruption. Capitalism shouldn't have anything to do with regulation- a capitalist society shouldn't be regulated, and the United States most definitely is regulated. >>> back in 1929 the govt deregulated Wall St. A few months later the world plunged into depression. What deregulation are you talking about? The stock exchange crash was brought upon by reckless spending by investors- people would borrow money to invest in the stock exchange- there was more money being loaned in America at that time than actually existed- and when it started to go down, it was a destructive force that pulled millions of Americans down with them.... It had nothing to do with deregulation- where did you hear that? What was deregulated? >>>Deregulation and trickle Down are complete myths, designed to make the richest even richer, on the backs of the lowest paid. I'm sorry, what? So removing waste harms the economy? You're going to have to elaborate on that, not just state it as a fact- why wouldn't reducing spending and reducing the number of laws create a better running economy? Are you suggesting we --need-- the government to regulate our lives? If so, are you then suggesting that all aspects of our lives should be regulated? >>> but this immediately flows back to them as rent money, high food prices etc. Why would food prices be heightened? Moreover, if people are competing in a capitalist society, wouldn't that mean that, with a tax break, they could sell their food for cheaper, which then wold force their competitors to follow suit, or lose business? Again, you're making claims without explaining WHY you think it is that way. >>>Socialism is the only system of govt which has been proved to work There's that word "proved" again.....how is socialism proven? It seems to me that alot of their stances don't work, and harm society..... >>> but invariably a greedy person gains control and flips it upside down for their own benefit. Isn't that the same problem that Capitalism faces, only the power is decentralized in numerous business's, so the greed of one man often doesn't effect the country, while the greed in socialism can bring a country to their knees and create genocides the likes of which would make Hitler cringe? >>>We will always have poverty, hunger, crime and wars as long as we have greed. I don't think it's a direct result of greed, but that's an odd stance to take- that your political beliefs would only work if humans acted inhuman. Seems to me that, if socialism can only work if people stop acting like humans, then the problem isn't people- it's socialism. Bumpa: wow Lipton do you know nothing about world history? The great depression of the 1930s began when the US govt deregulated the banking industry allowing Wall St to make insecure loans and speculative investments which all went tits up, same as happened recently with the latest crash. Same as happened in 1987 when Asian banks were doing the same things. Socialism has been shown to work in many countries, sure the people moan about high taxes and govt interference in business but it worked in NZ up till Douglas fucked our economy. It's working in the Scandanavian countries, it even worked in UK up till the Thatcher years. Look at what has happened since Thatcher dismantled the social reforms previous govts had introduced. I should have thought even you could see that "Trickle Down" is complete bullshit invented by the super rich trying to justify their greed. And sorry but how does socialism create genocide? Please don't give Hitler as an example, he was further to the right than Atilla the Hun. LiptonCambell: Nope! My example is the Soviets- they killed millions of their own citizens, and stole the food they made and left them to starve. But I can see you're a fan of revisionist history, so there's not much to talk about here..... Bumpa: True, Stalin killed 13 million of his own people but he was a right wing dictator, not a socialist LiptonCambell: Lol I love how your mind works; Does a country -loosely- follow the marxist ideals most associated with socialism? NOT SOCIALISM- it must be 'true' socialism to count Does a country -loosely- follow the free market ideals most associate with capitalism? Must be Capitalism! It doesn't matter how watered down it is! The sad truth is, the United States is a bizarre mix of socialism and capitalism. It could be argued the flaws in the united states are because of it's socialist influence on the system just as much as it's capitalist- or even both- that the mixed system prevents it from reaching the purity of either system, and thus is doomed to fail. Bu you want it both ways- to claim anything remotely resembling capitalism is capitalism, and any problems they have are inherit of that system, and yet claim that anything remotely resembling socialism ~~isn't~~ socialism, because it's gotta be "pure" to count. By that standard, neither socialism nor capitalism have been "proven"  davidk14: . "...Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance; the gospel of envy; its inherent virtue s the equal sharing of misery." W. Churchill . | Politics Chat Room 47 People Chatting Similar Conversations |
