Should abortion be legal or illgeal? Succinct Verbosity: No need to be absolutist. Outlawing all abortion is immoral, impractical and costs money. Allowing all abortion is immoral, impractical and costs money.  Dennae: You want a legal answer? I only ask because "murder" or "homicide" is a legal term. In my country, a foetus is "legally" alive when it has taken a breath independent of it's mother. Only then can it be "legally" issued a birth certificate and a death certificate. Therefore, "legally" you cannot murder that which is not "legally" alive. Morally? What Succinct said   Emma 333: Legal.To an extent. If a woman doesn't want to carry a baby who has the right to tell her she has to?I disagree with the up to 24 weeks though. Bumpa: I used to be pro choice but since I became a Dad, I have come to realise just how precious each little life is. Emma 333: I wonder how your opinion would change again if you were a 16 year old teen girl with strict parents and a promising future whose condom broke. Bumpa: I can't answer that one Emma because I'm not in that position. All I can say is, this is purely my personal feeling on the matter Emma 333: That's my issue though.I first of all don't really understand why men get a vote on this topic (but democracy and all that) but people who won't ever be in the situation of a crisis pregnancy get to decide the fate of the woman or girl who is in that situation. I don't know where you live but where I am abortion is illegal and a woman recently died because her baby was killing her but it was illegal to terminate said baby because it was healthy and now mum and baby are dead. Emma 333: Not to mention all the neglected and abused children because they were never wanted in the first place as harsh as it is it happens and kids shouldnt be raising kids either  Mystery88: Jump to: navigation, search Death of Savita Halappanavar Date 28 October 2012 Location University Hospital Galway, Galway, Ireland Cause Septicemia and multiple organ failure First reporter Kitty Holland and Paul Cullen, The Irish Times The death of Savita Halappanavar on 28 October 2012, at University Hospital Galway in Ireland, led to nationwide protests—which spilled over into India, England and many other countries—calling for a review of the abortion laws in Ireland. Halappanavar, a Hindu of Indian origin, was suffering from a miscarriage when she was some 17 weeks pregnant, and she sought medical attention and treatment at University Hospital Galway. Her husband, Praveen Halappanavar, said that the hospital told them the foetus was not viable, but they could not perform an abortion under Irish Law as the foetus heart was still beating. During the next several days, Halappanavar was diagnosed with septicemia which lead to multiple organ failure and her death.[1] Once the events became public, the news of Halappanavar's death spread rapidly and quickly through both traditional and social media outlets, with one of the original stories in The Irish Times on 14 November receiving over 700,000 hits by 17 November.[2] Rallies and protests were held, calling for a change in the abortion laws in Ireland, which the protesters claimed led to Halappanavar's death.[3][4] Indian diplomatic and consular officials requested an official inquiry into the events surrounding Halappanavar's death.[5] The United Nations also became involved.[6] The incident is currently under investigation,[7] and the Taoiseach (Prime Minister of Ireland), Enda Kenny, has stated: "I don't think we should say anything about this until we are in possession of all the facts."[8] The Health Service Executive (HSE) named Professor Sir Sabaratnam Arulkumaran to head a seven-member panel looking into the case. The panel will seek to uncover all the facts and "to identify any safety issues arising in this case".[9] Comrade_: It might be best to improve the system of foster-care, family planning etc so that it will be a more appealing option. @Emma, we get to vote on the topic because we're part of society and important to the reproduction. That is if you think only females should be allowed to have a say on abortion as a whole. I personally believe that it needs to be looked at case by case than an overall yes/no. Emma 333: And what about a woman's right to privacy? Why should she be put on trial as such to see if she's allowed to terminate.I mean it's not even funny how long ago it would have been reviewed if men carried babies Comrade_: You are referring to the 'case by case' reference? I'm thinking that a woman whose life is at risk and may want to abort the baby will have a different situation than a teenage girl who is on her 8th abortion. Emma 333: This is my point. Look at you deciding a young girls future, I'd say the occurance of a teen having 8 abortions has never happened.Why do people want children to be raised by women who blatantly don't want them that child and the mother will both grow up unhappy. If the abortion is done before 8 weeks when the fetus can't feel anything I honestly don't see a difference between that and using plan b which is available over the counter at any pharmacy. People say give it for adoption now I've never been pregnant and I've never given birth but I can Imagine giving up a baby you've carried for 9 months and have given birth to will be a lot more damaging than terminating a few week old fetus that is nothing more than a cluster of cells at this stage. Regardless of all that if a country is going to make abortion illegal the least they can do is supply free contraception or atleast not have the topic of contraception as stupidly taboo as it is. Comrade_: hmm ok Ms Emma. The scenario was meant for repeated, unnecessary abortion cases. To show that reasons for abortions are different. Another example is abortion based on gender. Some abortions are necessary and others are not. In those cases prior family planning is ideal, yes. I tend to disagree that abortion should be used as method for family planning. I'm not sure of the laws in all countries support Abortions but from what I've read on Sweden there are still 'limits' in place. I agree with you though that contraceptives and other alternative should be pushed and improved.  Khatnip: It should most definitely be legal and available to all women, regardless of their circumstances, but it should be restricted by the development of the fetus. Personally, I think by the end of the first trimester, a woman should be able to make up her mind whether she can/will/wants to carry it to term. Having a child at the wrong time in one's life is damaging to both mother and child. It will mean taking time off of work or school to recover from giving birth (whether she keeps the baby or gives it up for adoption). Giving a child up can be extremely, extremely difficult. If she opts to keep the child, it will require finding money for a babysitter or nursery, baby clothes, diapers, and other supplies, and it will require taking days off of work to take the baby to the doctor or when the sitter doesn't show up. It will cost the extra expense (eventually) of renting an apartment with a second bedroom. I just checked a "cost of raising a child calculator" and it says a person can expect to spend $8000 a year on raising a newborn. Unmarried women are more likely to get an abortion than married women...which probably has much to do with the fact that there are so many dads out there who are deadbeat or who are simply unable to pay child support. Imagine trying to do all of that on an $8 an hour salary (at 35 hours a week, with no vacation, no sick days, and no days off to take care of the baby, that's $14,560 a year) . Hell, imagine doing that on an $15 an hour salary. Even more difficult, if the mother is very young, she may be unable to find child care that she can afford so that she can attend school. This puts her behind the curve for the REST of her life. This means she may STILL be working that $8 an hour job when she should be retiring. Except she hasn't made enough to save anything, so she can't retire. So she may still be working that $8 an hour job until she dies. Even though she may LOVE the child, it's still very easy to end up RESENTING the child at the same time. So even women who aren't prone to abuse may become abusive. What kind of life would that child lead? And we all know that abuse is cyclical. So a mother who isn't prepared for motherhood may end up abusing the child, who then abuses their own children, and so forth. I have never met a woman who has had an abortion whose attitude was, "Oh, I think today would be a great day to get pregnant so I can have an abortion!" It's not a decision most would make lightly. Yes, there are women who habitually use it as a form of birth control. But if they aren't responsible enough to use birth control PRIOR to getting pregnant, do you really think they'll be responsible in raising a baby? Or be responsible enough during pregnancy to give birth to a child that is healthy enough to find a good adoptive home? And did you know that the state cost for raising a child in foster care is over $25,000 per year per HEALTHY child? Imagine the costs for a special needs child. When I was 19, I got pregnant. I was on the birth control pill, he wore a condom, AND I was using the sponge. THREE forms of birth control, and I still got pregnant. I'm happy to say that my son is now 18 years old, and he's turned out to be a wonderful young man. But other people don't have the same support that I do. Abortion is not a choice I could ever make for myself, unless my life were in danger, but it is not something that I could ever deny anyone else. (Edited by Khatnip) Khatnip: Oh! I just read more details about that cost of raising a child thing... they assume only $1400 a year for daycare! Ha. That is an absolute laughable amount. Even at the ridiculously low rate of $200/week, that's still over $10,000 a year! Bumpa: Khathryn, you about sum up my feelings on this issue, it's not for me (well, my partner) but I shouldn't deny it to others. Emma, I truly don't believe it would have been legal if men gave birth. I hear this argument repeatedly from feminists and it's bullshit. Us guys are often quite jealous of the women/birth/nursing thing. Once we've done our jobs impregnating our wives, we're sidelined as of no further importance except to work our butts off to support the family. Khatnip: I hadn't considered the made-to-order baby cases. I don't think there's any reason to abort a child based on gender. Noooo. LOL Mystery88: but sadly over in China that males are more highly regarded than females but they are having a problem now that there is too many males to females well all i can say is they brought it on themselves. Comrade_: Yes, in China they have the one-child policy, might be why they wish to abort females. I know it's also a problem in India, even though they have 'normal' conditions, the females get aborted for cultural/financial reasons and now they have a higher male population. From this the problem of trafficking girls from different areas is now a problem as well as forcing them into marriage with abusive families and sex slavery. Shows how one thing can break out into other problems. Emma 333: Khathryn Amen to what you just said. Bumpa I am far from a feminist but I know for a fact things would be different and I'm sorry if your wife sidelined you but a man's role in bringing up their kids is massive. I'm sure you've heard of people with "daddy issues" redeemedbrut: A girl may abort .............how when where is entirely her fuckn problem ..........My problem as a guy would be to find a darn good lawyer and sue this girls ass .....Reason for lawsuit ........significant loss of precious bodily fluid and the efforts robustly put behind such in insertion and semen administration Bumpa:
Emma how do you "know for a fact"? Have you been a pregnant man? My wife didn't sideline me, I was sidelined by the health professionals involved in maternity care and I was not the only one... All the other new Dads I spoke to felt exactly the same. This didn't just happen once, it was the same with all 6 of my kids so I can speak with some authority. Sorry but I get pissed off when someone says :if it was a man, it would be different" Why not try looking at our similarities instead of gender differences always? The fact is that Dads are just as caring and loving to their kids as Mums are. Khatnip: A mother or father's role depends entirely on their situation. There are some fathers who make excellent stay at home parents, and there are some mothers that totally suck at it. There are couples where both parents work. It all depends on the dynamic of the couple, and the role each chooses to take and accept from their partner. In my view, feminism means accepting that ALL people have abilities that are worthy of recognition for their contribution to society, whether that is raising a child, being in business, or being a nurse. It means roles don't need to be defined as specifically man's or woman's, but that each person's ability should be recognized and appreciated. redeemedbrut: rising to the occasion is something a man is more adept at ........given his natural penchant .........to rise | Politics Chat Room 26 People Chatting Similar Conversations |