CIA Attrocities--------------MKUltra Mind Control and other Crimes (Page 10)

Bumpa: Yep, same as we're taught here Tom. Incidentally Japanese schoolkids are taught that their country wasn't involved in WW2 until USA dropped the A bombs on them. US isn't the only country to teach bs to their kids.

davidk14: .

Bumpa said:

I said the Allies had them beaten by the time USA became involved. UK was part of the Allies


David responds:

Hum...let's see...

The German's took over Europe (Poland France, Spain, and the rest of Europe) and were on the verge of pounding the crap out of Great Britain. The US was not yet involved. Then Great Britain BEGGED the US for 50 destroyers so that the Germans would not cut off GB supply lines. The French already had been conquered and the British destroyed the French fleet so that their battleships would not be taken by the Germans. I think I have that correct so far.

So now the Nazi's start the destruction of Britain. They bombed the fuck out of that island and destroyed the majority of Britain's entire air force. Luckily, the Germans decided to abandon that strategy without knowing they had the British on their knees. Along come the Americans to save the day. D-Day was led by Eisenhower along with fucking MILLIONS of American soldiers and aircrews and planes by the thousands. I think I have that correct as well.

If you would like, you should read the memoirs from Roosevelt and Churchill which categorically support what I have just stated. You want to rewrite history. Thank God you are just idiots.

Oh...and dropping the two atomic bombs on Japan ended the war within days and saved untold American and Japanese lives to boot.

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Bumpa: Yes I agree with you about the bombs dropped on Japan.
Disagree with you about Britain being on its knees. The German industrial regions of the Rhur were already destroyed.
As for "begging" destroyers, Britain had to pay for them under the lend/lease agreement. NZ, australia and Canada all contributed to this lease.
The Germans had been smashed in Africa without any input from USA, this was the major theatre of war. Europe was just a side show apart from Russia.
D Day was led by Eisenhower because he had a tantrum and threatened to take his toys home if he wasn't boss. Montgomery or Freyburg would probably have done a much better job.
Incidentally USA wasn't the only country to supply pilots and planes. The CO of Bomber Command was a New Zealander, Park. The other commonwealth nations also provided air forces which played a huge part

davidk14: .

You said you disagree with me about Britain being on its knees, that the German industrial regions of the Rhur were already destroyed.

Too much to cut and paste. Here is a link that covers the RAF bombing of Germany. Lots of good information here.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Bomber_Command


As for the begging for the destroyers, the US was not going to just 'give' 50 state of the art warships for nothing. At first, Roosevelt did not believe that the British would even defend themselves and was not going to give them material if they were going to give in like the French did. But when Churchill destroyed the French fleet at Mers-el-Kébir in Algeria, then Roosevelt went to bat for Churchill and brilliantly created a lease to own for the destroyers.

D Day was led by Eisenhower because he had a tantrum and threatened to take his toys home if he wasn't boss?

Eisenhower said that their could only be ONE supreme commander. If he could not have that type of control, he would pass on the job. Churchill had the final say and approved Eisenhower over Montgomery or Freyburg.

Thousands of Allied soldiers and aircrews fought and died together to rid the world of Nazi's. We should never forget.

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lori100: Many of the British royals were big supporters of the Nazis ,too. The British royals are actually German, not English--------Windsor is a name they made up to distance themselves from their German heritage....

Bumpa: Well David that link pretty much makes rubbish of your claim the RAF was "beaten" till the Americans arrived doesn't it? However Wikipedia isn't always accurate. For instance the list of British bombers is incomplete and slightly inaccurate. Also no mention is made of the contribution American fighter pilots made in their P51 Mustangs which had a long enough range to escort bombers to Germany. The Brit Hurricanes and Spitfires could only escort as far as France although they were vastly superior in all other respects.
I have never seen a contemporary report that Eisenhower would pass on the Supreme Commander job. All reports I've seen state he always demanded the job as he had political ambitions for after the war and wanted the tag of "war hero". Gen Mark Clark was also guilty of this and even disobeyed direct orders in his haste to be first into Rome causing the death of thousands of Commonwealth soldiers.
My own theory about US involvement in the European theatre is that it was obvious the Allies were going to win so Roosevelt wanted to be in on the carve up of Germany and be able to limit soviet expansion. He was quite happy to remain neutral until the Pearl Harbour attack. Absolutely nothing altruistic in his actions at all!

davidk14: .

Point being..... if the US did not enter the war when it did, Britain would have been lost. The US would have eventually been attacked...eventually. Europe was already in the claws of the Nazi's and Britain was the stepping stone to the US.

After WW2, any American politician who was running for office promised that WW1 was the war to end all wars and that the US would never get involved in another European war. Roosevelt being a progressive liberal was holding that line refusing to be drawn into another WW. However, once the Japanese attacked, we responded. Once the Germans declared war, we responded. However, since our inventory of material was very low, and since our citizens in uniform was as weak, it took almost a year to get moving. Planes, bombs and tanks also needed to be built as well as transitioning the civilian population, economy and manufacturing onto a war footing.

Bumpa: Obviously they do not teach kids history in US schools, but do they also not teach you how to read?
Britain would have been lost? What utter bullshit! Sure USA entering shortened the European conflict by a few months but the Axis was already broken. Italy had all but surrendered and Germany was buggered the moment Hitler launched Barbarossa and invaded Russia.
The war was WON when USA entered but it still gave America the opportunity to take over and grab the glory.

duncan124:
Britain and Russia would have won and the USA would have been run openly by the pro-nazis scared of the Communist dominated Europe.

Bumpa: The cold war sure would have had a different outcome Duncan. I believe this was the sole reason USA became involved in Europe. It was the height of anti communist obsession in USA then.

chronology: Bumpa 'the Anti communist obsession in the U.S.A. then', the Americans were so 'Anti Communist' that thousands of American Merchant Marine risked their lives in freezing Baltic waters taking supplies to Russia in Convoys. There are few ways to die in this world as painful as to die in freezing waters and few missions as nerve wracking as sailing in a ship in freezing seas never knowing at any moment when a torpedo would rip your ship apart, but American sailors risked that fate for Russian civilians. I have met Guys who were on those missions and nothing but respect for their courage and self sacrifice.

davidk14: .

Bumpa...you really need to read. The US got into the war BECAUSE Britain was lost without her entering it. What don't you understand? Hitler 'walked'.....no....'danced' through Europe with ease with no one to stop them and was just about to destroy Britain. What don't you understand? The British Army only had nine divisions available for war, whereas Germany had 78 and France had 86 and then France is overrun in what....8 days?

PLEEZ!!!!

If the US could have stayed out of Europe, they would have. The US had a full blown war in the Pacific to deal with. I realize you are an America hater but please, do not spit on American graves.

duncan124:
The USA supported Franco who said he was a Fascist and wanted his country to be Fascist because of the Marxists!! And carried on supporting him and them untill the 1990s!!

What would have happened in Europe without the USA joining the war might be an interesting idea for a thread elsewhere --but this must now be off topic

lori100: spelled fascist

duncan124:
Thats true. But with a capital letter as they were a Party.

Bumpa: David your "facts" about history are very selective indeed. Sure USA had a major job fighting the Japanese and yes, a few American ships were involved in the Murmansk convoys, crewed by sailors from all allied countries. But Germany was beaten the moment it invaded Russia. Roosevelt knew this but chose to enter this theatre so USA would have influence in the post war carve up of Europe. the USSR would have had virtual complete control there without US intervention.
There was nothing altruistic at all in America's involvement however it was appreciated by all the other allies. It did shorten the war by at least a year.

duncan124:
In Europe we spell things how we like but all speak English, in the USA they all spelt things the same but didn 't speak English.

But it left the Germans, not the Nazi war machine, in control in most parts of Europe.

I remember going to Italy in the 1980s where people where marching in the street to get the council to allow the removal of the wallpaper the Nazis had put up. It gave off fumes and made people ill.

Bumpa: Everything about the Nazis makes people ill Duncan but I can see the sense in preserving something of them if only to remind us to never allow this to happen again.

duncan124:
Yeah Bumpa they're Nazis! Everywhere the Germans were going to invade they set up politians and Govt workers who carried on after the war.

The French publicly roundd up some female collaborators after the war but as the UK royals were all collaborators, spending holidays in Fascist Italy , the hunt stopped and the former Jewish propertys were sold.

Bumpa: I've read reports that the Vatican was strongly pro Nazi due to the anti Jewish policy. Also that some Swiss banks still hold deposits of Nazi loot stolen from Jews and refuse to release it. Some of the loot includes tons of gold fillings ripped from teeth of holocaust victims, but we all are quite familiar with the greed of banks.

lori100: ^^^correct Bumpa

duncan124:
I am pretty sure there were no Swiss banks with deposits of Nazi loot. The Swizz banks are private but as the Swiss suffered so much during the wars and afterwards they were very careful to spot any German trying to use their banks.

Even Albert E gave evidence revealing Nazis who had tried to invade his town.

You must remember the Swiss are very poor, there is nothing but snow, rocks and in summer some sheep.

Banking is a major industry and something has to be very big to be bigger then the value of a Swiss bank.

Bill Clinton had a deranged go at the Swiss then went back home and had his affair with Monica.

lori100: on illum lorry----------------- Vatican /Nazi connection again------Wikipedia--------Vatican[edit]

On October 21, 1946, the U.S. State Department received a Top Secret report from US Treasury Agent Emerson Bigelow.[8] The report established that Bigelow received reliable information on the matter from the American Office of Strategic Services (OSS) or CIC intelligence officials of the US Army.[9] The document, referred to as the "Bigelow Report", was declassified on December 31, 1996, and released in 1997.

The report asserted that in 1945, the Vatican had confiscated 350 million Swiss francs in Nazi gold for "safekeeping," of which 150 million Swiss francs had been impounded by British authorities at the Austro-Swiss border. The report also stated that the balance of the gold was held in one of the Vatican’s numbered Swiss bank accounts. Intelligence reports, which corroborated the Bigelow Report, also suggested that more than 200 million Swiss francs, a sum largely in gold coins, were eventually transferred to Vatican City or to the Institute for Works of Religion (aka the Vatican Bank), with the assistance of Roman Catholic clergy and the Franciscan Order.[10][11][12]

duncan124:
Madness is madness. Bill Clinton went on to condem Swiss chocolate. You know what sex offenders are like.

chronology: Bumpa. Very sad to read your dismissal of American heroism and sacrifice in the Baltic Convoys. If you could have seen the joy of Russian Civilians at the arrival of the American ships, the joy of the women and children receiving their food and medicine and clothing supplies.