Treatment of German POWs in Prison Camps after WW2 (Page 2)

chronology
chronology: Ms Merritt. Myself and David debated the Holocaust legend in blistering exchanges in an old thread on Wire. I consider it a notable debate on the subject. You may find the Thread in the Wire Archives.
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Ms_Mafdet_The Great
Ms_Mafdet_The Great: Thank you but no thank you - I can entertain my self
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The13th
The13th: Jesus ..I save u guys some trouble ...I will go fight till I die ....no POW for me .,then you guys no need to argue.

Anywhere, all could have been true. Many pow get threat right, some get threat badly. Some get killed. It depends on what kind of western camp you end up. Lots of sinister people around in this world.
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Captain Canada
Captain Canada: Very interesting topic and a eyeopener
Dave3974 did say something so true
Winners wrote the history or something to like that,anyway,according to people they claim that the Eisenhower killed and mistreated POW's.ok any prove that he picked up a gun and shot a prisioner? or tied his boot laces and kicked a prisoner,I can't see it nor believe he would have done that.
So way say/claim that the man did such acts
Any prove that Hitler himself opened a oven door and placed a Jew inside that oven
So way say/claim that the man did such acts.

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Outbackjack
Outbackjack: I don't believe for one second that more prisoners of war died under the Americans than died under the Soviets.Its just rubbish. For starters Krushchev was still releasing German prisoners in the late 1950s from Siberia.

Dont say the records were destroyed for as far as I can see they were not.

Heres an interesting article I found on Quora:

What evidence is there about the Allies' and Eisenhower's death camps and starvation of the Germans after World War II?

Let's be clear about this: there were no death camps for German POWs overseen by Eisenhower and there was no starvation by policy of Germans by the western occupying powers (the US, Britain and France) after World War II.

The accusation that over one million German POWs in US custody were starved to death after World War II comes from James Bacque, a Canadian novelist, in his book "Other Losses."

Bacque argues that in June 1945 there were 2.87 million German POWs being held by the US in the European Theater of Operations (ETO). Later US documents state that 1.8 million POWs were being in the Communication Zone (COM Z) and that 900,000 fewer daily rations would be needed to feed German POWs in US care.

Bacque concludes from this apparent discrepancy that one million German POWs were starved to death while in US camps and a systematic coverup was carried out to conceal the deaths and policy.
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Outbackjack
Outbackjack: In reality, there was no 'missing million' German POWs and Bacque willfully misinterpreted different accountings of POWs. COM Z was a subordinate command in the ETO, and when one looks at transfers of prisoners between the occupying powers and overall US figures there is no "missing million;" 3.1 million German POWs were held by the US, Britain and France, and all can be accounted for in records held by the Allies.

Bacque claims that the starvation of one million POWs was concealed by the designation of large numbers of German POWs as "Disarmed Enemy Forces" (DEF), a category that fell outside the Hague Conventions on the treatment of enemy prisoners and a violation of those international laws.

The Allies did designate large numbers of Germans who surrendered at the end of the war as DEF rather than prisoners of war for a variety of reasons. For one, there was no war; many troops surrendered at the end of hostilities. For another, in the eyes of the Allies there was no German government; the Allies recognized no German government institution as representing the German people and had taken over responsibility for creating a new German government themselves.

Disarmed Enemy Forces contained large number of Volksturm soldiers, formed at the end of the war, many of these were simply sent home and out of US custody, responsibility and accounting.

Other Losses was not well received and was harshly critized by many historians and its overall argument has not be taken up by any reputable historian.

Historian Niall Ferguson calculated the mortality rates of POWs held by different nations as follows:

Percentage of POWs that Died:

Russian POWs held by Germans: 57.5%
German POWs held by Russians: 35.8%
American POWs held by Japanese: 33.0%
German POWs held by Eastern Europeans: 32.9%
British POWs held by Japanese: 24.8%
British POWs held by Germans: 3.5%
German POWs held by French: 2.58%
German POWs held by Americans: 0.15%
German POWs held by British: 0.03%

However, that is not to say that Germany's surrender was followed by sweetness and light across the continent.

There was starvation in Europe after World War II. All the economies of Europe were more or less ravaged. Transportation networks - ports, railroads, marshalling yards, roads, rivers and canals - had been heavily bombed and in Germany in particular were largely non-functional. The war had caused the displacement of tens of millions and the deaths of tens of millions others. In short, in 1945, there was little food produced in Europe and great difficulties importing and distributing food within Europe. The post-war hunger and starvation was not the product of Allied policy but the consequences of the war.

Aside from the chaotic aftermath of the war, the US was not always punctilious in its treatment of German prisoners of war after the war. There was abuse and inefficiency in some POW camps run by the US and some reluctance to face up to it. But the abuses were exposed in US press reports and the Army made efforts to clean up its act.

The worst post-war sin the US, Britain and France can be accused of is complicity in the Soviet occupation in Eastern Europe.

As the figures above make clear, the war in the East was conducted by entirely different rules than the war in the West. But neither the US, Britain or France was responsible for Stalin's policies and could do little to moderate them.
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vaporize53
vaporize53: Ex German POW's and Wehrmacht became exemplry US citizens. My mother was ex Jungend and elevated to great things. The great Werner Von Braun was very evident in the inner circle. The worst case of humanity illustrated by WW2 was the raping of beautiful German women by negro GI's. This war of course , led to the establishment of a jewish ethnostate. Can White people get the same consideration?
(Edited by vaporize53)
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Outbackjack
Outbackjack: What a load of bollocks.
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vaporize53
vaporize53: 14 words
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vaporize53
vaporize53: Hmmmmm. One must really ask , 70 yrs later , who was really holocosted?

RIP Deutschland 7-5-45. Lost to the zoo world order.

Meine Ehre heisst Truere ! Wotan mit uns!!! 14 w .
(Edited by vaporize53)
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vaporize53
vaporize53: Censorship sux.
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vaporize53
vaporize53: Do you think Werner Von Braun would have been dubbed a "camp guard" and had his life ruined as well? Please.

A negro space program? The cadillac shuttle to the moon ; via Golden Corral.........
(Edited by vaporize53)
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quarks
quarks:
someone here who lives in a Nation which was occupied by force. best simple way Nazi soldiers could have not died in prisoner of war camp would be they could have not started war killing inocent citizens. they could have stayed in this Fatherland they wished of. never did they have right to Scandinavian land. this home has been ours longer than Germanic people have been our neighbours. possibly many were mistreated but them were at least soldiers. they mistreated people who were simply living life not even being soldiers. best way them be safe would have been stay in Deutschland. if one thinks many did not die at the hands of Nazis one is not educated. here we hold nothing against current day Deutschland but we not forget. we will never forget and this will never happen again. only once in history will Dannebrog be trampled and our people exectuted for no reason! what became of these that killed inocent nieghbours and friends, no one should care. if you showed evidence them put in their own gas chambers, my words would be fire begat fire.

to deny Holocaust makes no sense. go to Deutschland there they do not deny this but wish it only not be held against them. they have built memorials and have sorrow of what their countrymen once did. more than Jewish people were murdered by Nazi army. you can see touch and stand in gas chambers and cattle cars that transported these victims. it is all real and perserved. no one who wish care would deny history. if you wish know truth go see and touch the scratches by fingers on doors which held them in as death came.
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vaporize53
vaporize53: Stalin murdered more about 20 million to be precise. All White , all Christian , all Slavic.

IMHO ,this thread is designed to speak of German POW's in US prison camps afterr WW2. The politically correct have used the sounding board ad nausium. Did you know the NASA program was initiated in Huntsville AL by ex nazi engineers?
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quarks
quarks:
Stalin should not be forgotten either. do you think the people of Denmark were not white when Nazi army came here killing many of them and all that resisted? people who support Nazi acts do not know what them did. you can want white people have Nation this does not justify what Nazi did. why did Nazi have right to occupy here in my peoples homeland?

I care not of NASA program. this does not justify what Nazi army did here. what happened to those who killed innocent people I do not care. them were soldier by choice and soldiers sometimes die. who them rounded up and invaded were simply living life.

everything is not about USA. we are glad them came and liberated us. what them did with Nazi prisoners can not possibly equal what Nazi did here during occupation. sometimes in life you get what you gave. if there was any evidence to this mistreatment I would still not care. Nazi had choice to stay in Deutschland. them chose invade and kill inocent peoples. if them mistreated after they lost and after they killed millions of neighbours it seem them got some of what them gave.
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vaporize53
vaporize53: Please , don't get the wrong idea. Hitler was a failure and a disgrace to our race. Danes are Fine White people. The subject of the thread , however is about probably Wehrmacht or Lufwaffe POW's held in US. Actually , I knew several of them. I mention NASA because it shows the friendships that developed after WW2 between White Warriors. Working in the construction trades in the 60's and 70's led me to establish many friendships with x German military. Fine individuals , no, not nazis , just damn good soldiers.
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chronology
chronology: Jack. Your list of statistics is irrelevant to this discussion. German soldiers were not held by Gen Eisenhower as 'POW's they were detained under a special category by the U.S. Occupation Administration. We just do not know how many German Soldiers and civilians detained in these Camps died as the Americans kept no records, what records they did keep they destroyed soon after they closed the Camps. Why General Eisenhower detained so many Germans under such harsh conditions is a mystery, some folks insist the General had a personal hatred of Germans.

We need to remember Jack, this was a 'General Eisenhower Programme' not an American Programme as such, Gen Pattern was disgusted at the treatment of German prisoners. An Australian Officer who saw the treatment of Germans in Gen Eisenhower's Camps was infuriated at the callousness shown to innocent German citizens. If you search the Web you will find his Web Site, he calls it 'Eisenhower's Death Camps'.
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davidk14
davidk14: .

Unfortunately, you have no idea what the fuck you guys are talking about.

During WW2, my father was a prison medical assistant at a POW camp in Texas. He was hand picked because A) He spoke fluent German B) He was a Jew C) He had escaped Nazi Germany.

All the guards and support at this camp spoke fluent German and were Jews. At his camp, there were no escapes. At his camp, all the prisoners were SS. At his camp, these detainees were treated by the book, the Geneva Conventions Rules.

For you to think that as policy, it was acceptable to mistreat prisoners, is totally inaccurate.

Take the tin foil of your heads and breath.

.
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Outbackjack
Outbackjack: The records were not destroyed Chrono.I see no evidence for that.

In fact I would like to see some real evidence to what you are saying as I just don't believe it and cant find anything credible online.

I would be really interested to see if you could come up with anything to refute the respected historian Niall Ferguson who I have quoted above.
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vaporize53
vaporize53: Gen Patton clearly realized the gallantry of the German Officer. Establishing an elite corps of US and German elite corpsman to thwart the bolsheviks ; read Killing Patton. The last 61 pages being the most important.

David , I'm curious . why jewish guards?

I had an Uncle in the Lufwaffe that was captured in Russia. Not released until 1953.

By all accounts US treated German soldiers with respect. Many German prisinors stayed in US after release.
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davidk14
davidk14: .

Jewish guards reduced the possibility the interned SS officers could manipulate the prison staff. Here, the Jews had the guns.

.
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vaporize53
vaporize53: LOL. They sure know how to work the situation. I could see where White guards would like the German.
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chronology
chronology: davidk14. David I have already agreed with you completely that the United States Government and the American people treated German Prisoners well, I have never, and would never suggest otherwise. We are discussing a Detention Camp System set up by General Eisenhower in Germany at the end of the War.

Jack, you say there is 'no evidence' of the mistreatment of German detainees in General Eisenhower's Camps. All I can say is do a Web search for 'Eisenhower's Death Camps' and you will find site after site being listed.
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Outbackjack
Outbackjack: I just did (again) and all I see are raving lunatics quoting Bacque.I posted about Bacque above and figures the respected Niall Ferguson put of all WW2 prisoners of war.

Niall Ferguson makes some very good documentaries and I am sure he would draw huge ratings if what you said was true.But it isn't.

No more beating around the bush Chrono.I ask you again.Where is the proof? Be specific.
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chronology
chronology: I concede to you Jack, there is no proof that can be presented, just witness statements and the statements of German soldiers who were held in the Camps.

Jack, presenting any 'proof' about the treatment of Prisoners at the time was difficult to say the least. When the German Army discovered the Mass graves of Polish prisoners they were shocked at the mass graves filled with tens of thousands of soldiers and policemen and politicians in Katyn Forest. German Units at the site began identifying the bodies and invited International Red Cross Observers to make Official Reports of the bodies they were recovering. German Officials also brought British Officers who were POWs to Officially Observe the recovery of the bodies as Independent and respectable witnesses. Despite this mass of evidence, Germany was found 'guilty' of this War Crime at the Kangaroo Court known to history as the Nuremberg Trials.

Your list of Prisoner Deaths Jack probably would read differently if we had more facts from back then. '57' pc death rate of Russians held by Germany. More likely most of those sad Russian prisoners were killed by their own Red Army after being 'liberated' from German Camps. American POWs were taken back to the U.S. to live out their lives in comfort and the security of U.S. society. Red Army POWs often received a bullet in the back of the head or were shipped off to Slave Labour Camps.
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