United States of America: Greatest Country on Earth? Coffrey: To preface, I'm not anti-statist, anti-government, anti-USA, I'm not a democrat nor a republican, I don't believe in government doing everything and I don't believe in government staying out of the way and letting private enterprise take over. In many respects, I'm probably a moderate. But when it comes to people who say America is the greatest, American exceptionalism, it really irks me, not because of my disdain for America, but because people are so painfully prideful and ignorant. America is 7th in literacy 27th in math 22nd in science 49th in life expectancy 178th in infant mortality 3rd in median household income 4th in labor force 4th in exports 1st in number of incarcerated citizens per capita 1st in number of adults who think angels are real 1st in defense spending So why is America the greatest in the whole world?  Comrade_: They have made positive contributions like most other countries, but I'd not use the word 'greatest' as a description for that country..thinking about it I wouldn't put it to any country that I've seen so far.  OCD_OCD: I dunno. I think, from a personal standpoint, I'd rather get up in the morning and feel like I'm proud of myself rather than waking up every morning and thinking that I suck. LOL I think it has more to do with being optimistic than prideful. cocacolacowboy27: I personally think the term greatest country in the world is a term that is grossly misrepresented. It is a term referring to size I do believe I live in the most wonderful country in the world, where I am free to be illiterates if I so choose, and I get to believe in angels too... thats a plus for me, because I do believe they are real. If they are not real and you can prove it, I will change my belief. I do think it's sad that our country ranks so horribly in basic skills such as math and literacy. However, I am glad to know my country spends more than anyone else to defend its citizens. (Without the defense spending, Boeing would lose 60% of its employees and Lockheed Martin would lose 80%..just 2 companies) You metion infant mortality, but forgot to mention we rank 24th for the number of abortions performed on an annual basis. I know we disagree on this point, but if we are going to be objective, lets show all the negatives. I think America has some major issues confronting it these days, and I believe it is the citizens fault. We the people stopped standing for what is right, and stopped voting for the person who would lead the nation based on right and wrong, and started voting for whoever said they could pad our wallet. That is our problem. Just some food for thought....if you elect someone who leads a decent and moral life (not by the Bible mind you, just clean and honest), and this person does what is right in every area of his or her life, would finances and literacy and all of these other issues simply be one more thing they do right with? It isn't that hard to understand that the politicians WE have elected, are not doing what is right. They cave to special interest groups, instead of being fair and just. Judges order plaques, containing the tenets that our legal system is founded upon, to be taken down, simply because the plaques contain Biblical quotes. However, the same judge would expect you to understand that disobedience of "thou shalt not kill" will get you punished. That is a two faced standard which leads to instability. America is the most wonderful country in the world, and I am proud to be an American, however, I will be the first to admit that America has strayed from her original values of morality, decency, and true freedom.  Corwin: My biggest beef with America, is how they abduct Canadians, bribe them with huge sums of money, and force them to play on American NHL hockey teams. I think this dubious practice is highly unethical. cocacolacowboy27: Jack : Note on Singapore....lowest crime rate, harshest punishment. We could take a lesson. Comrade_: Yeah, I've heard more than my share concerning Singapore haa but they do have a top class legal system too, when drafting up bills I know some countries look at theirs. The thing is focusing on improving the citizens and putting legal things in place from there you build up. More citizen-focused than focusing on trying to please who you can in order to win some election race. (Edited by Comrade_)  duncan124: Calling any country the 'Greatest' is wrong and should n,t it be 'Was the greatest country?" Corwin: In Canada, women can legally walk around topless... how great is that? Although, none do for some reason. Coffrey: That character in the video was a broadcaster, the end of the speech indicating that the reason why we aren't great anymore is because we aren't informed, which I agree. American culture has seriously derailed from innovation and the want to do things better than other countries, to just the want to be famous and entertained. We watch the news if it's entertaining, not to be informed of the issues. Not only that, like everything else in america, the news media is a business, it's primary goal is to make money, so when they say something, they just want ears, who cares if it is true or not. I don't know how it goes in other countries, I've seen good reporting from the CBC in canada, the BBC in the uk, and RT in russia, but if you think about it..... there's no american equivalent. I think people need to stop living in the communist days of "oh state-run TV is just propaganda for that country", we are no longer separated by culture or borders, we aren't american citizens, or french or english or canadian or japanese or african or indian, we are all earth citizens now. Coffrey: Oh, to add. I don't think there is anything America does that another country can't do, whether culturally or otherwise. By the way, cowboy, a judge endorsing a religion is against the constitution, that's why it gets taken down Coffrey: Ahhh, one more thing I forgot, directed at you, Cowboy We spend more on defense than the next 7 countries combined. Are those countries not safe? Are they in fear of getting invaded? Or number 44 on that list, Finland, are they somehow weaker and going to get invaded by another country? Would you worry about Finland? Are we any safer than Finland?
cocacolacowboy27: I agree that Americans have a lack of desire to be informed. In fact, as a whole, we have a lack of desire period. Wellfare has created a generation of lazy, ill informed people who arrogantly misuse and abuse the program that was set up to help them become better people. Instead, many of them become satisfied with where they are and never attempt to become better citizens. As to the news media, as a whole, I agree. However, if one is diligent in research, one may find sources of truth. Check out this link, which I forgot to post as promised with my last post. I am a journalist, and i care that the people hear the truth, even if I don't like it. While you will find that I tend to close my articles with my own opinion, I state the facts from both sides of the story. I also will not ever let the government dictate what I am allowed to write. I will write the truth, no matter which side of the issue I stand on. As to being Earth citizens, versus individuals. I agree and disagree. We need our individuality. The answer is not a global government, for then it is too big to deal with individual concerns on local levels. I am an American, I am not Chinese, nor British, nor Finnish, I am different. Being individual is important. If we lose individuality, then we lose our rights to be who we want to be. I don't want to be just like the rest of the world. Endorsing the ten commandments is not endorsing religion Nothing in there about going to heaven or hell....just about being a good decent citizen. Can you argue that there is anything in ten commandments which would cause someone to be a bad citizen? Exodus 20 is where they are found....by the way, every single law in our country, is based on these ten commandments....kind of foolish to throw away the very thing that is the original issue of the court's information regarding how a citizen should live Im not saying they are weaker, but they are also smaller, tend not to get involved with denouncing terrorism or human mistreatment publicly. We are at the forefront of changing the way the world looks at politics, human rights, and citizenship...therefore we incur more threats than do these countries...not to mention, they have smaller land areas and populations to protect Buy a prius and spend 20 bucks a week in gas, buy a 4 wheel drive pickup, and spend 200....I know, I own a 4 wheel drive Just saying we have more to protect...heres the link http://www.valuewalk.com/2012/07/obama-blows-off-promises-to-run-clean-campaign/ duncan124: One hundred years from now people will just say the USA was destroyed by a volcano and environmental degradation while a ruling elite drove the citizens to distraction with idiocy. Coffrey: Welfare exists in other countries, with greater benefits than we have, denmark I know for sure has greater benefits (I have a friend from denmark who had to be on it for a bit). Yet the same sort of ignorance or laziness isn't as apparent in those countries as here. Then again, we are more in the spotlight, so that might be why it might be more apparent here. You can certainly find facts and sources, which is why I use internet news sources as my primary, maybe a newspaper every once in a while. But what I'm talking about is the average citizen who works 8 hours until 5 or 6 or 7 and watches cable news channels, FOX, MSNBC, CNN, the like. The gross negligence of that corporate media is why we are uninformed. For instance, the coverage of the Chik-Fil-A story was enormous. Of course we discussed it, it might be an interesting topic for individuals to discuss, but on primetime news? That's unacceptable. I wasn't saying that being an earth citizen is a good or bad thing, you can make the case for either side. I'm just saying that's how it is at this point in time. I mean, you might have small incursions, Russia invading Georgia, Turkey invading Cyprus, don't get me started on Israel into Palestine but nothing like Germany invading Poland because this is a different era. We don't need to be so stringent on defense, USA is not going to be invaded by a foreign country any time soon, I'm sure you'll agree. It's DEFENSE spending, not offense spending. Come on, Cowboy, Ten commandments basis for our legal system? Well, I'm sure glad we don't have those laws about rape or pedophilia or tax evasion, or animal cruelty, or.... I could go on. 1. No gods before me - certainly not a law, if anything, our freedom of religion is directly contradictory to this commandment. 2. Make no graven images of God - see point 1 3. Not take lord's name in vain - see point 1 4. Keep sabbath holy - see point 1 5. honor mother and father - maybe a good idea if your parents aren't pricks, but isn't in the law. 6. don't kill - I think society deemed it a good idea before the ten commandments came along 7. don't commit adultery - not a crime 8. don't steal - see point 6. 9. don't lie in testimony - see point 6. 10. don't covet - hell, American economy is driven on coveting, I'm sure you would agree How is it the basis of our legal code again, without being religious? Actually, I see your point, America is large and our influence is much vaster than Finland's (though they have excellent metal musicians ). Our answer to the world in terms of a good moral sense is invasion and torture. Without the big burgeoning business of defense contractors, maybe we wouldn't invade, but I'm sure we would speak out. But this is a complicated issue, purely for means of defense, we can at least cut it in half (along with cutting out the corruption of projects such as the F 22, which don't work, we're still buying them, then Lockheed will fix them only for an additional price) and we'll be safe, believe me. cocacolacowboy27: I agree that the news coverage is at best biased here in the US..however, I disagree on the argument for less coverage of Chick Fil A....it isnt about chicken....It is about constitutional rights...that is why it should receive coverage. If we don't stand for his rights to speak freely, who will stand for the next person, on either side? Ok I am curious as to your stand on Israel, considering the Jews have been driven from that land since 3000 bc....we must definitely delve into that, either here or on another forum. As to the Ten Commandment issue.....I am asking you to show me in those commandments, what would make someone a bad citizen? We have pictures for all different types of organizations posted in our courthouses, things like the Lions Club, and NAACP....they have their tenets on them. Why not the ones on which laws are based. The ten commandments are the first recorded legal documents in history which sets forth a law....Society is not innately good as you would suppose sometimes. We are all guilty of doing things that are not good for those around us. Thus the need for law in the first place. The first three points you make are really moot to what I am getting at. Would it be a bad thing if people carried them out? Language would be cleaner, you would get a guaranteed day off work Not bad things to have>>>> The laws about pedophiles and rape all tie into not coveting A rapist wants something he shouldnt have so he takes it....same with most other crimes of this type, such as robbery If you follow these rules, then you really and truly would be a profitable citizen.... I see your point regarding the budget.....and when the budget cuts happen in a few months..you will see mine about unemployment There will be about 80 to 100 thousand people out of work by january in this field alone. cocacolacowboy27: http://www.valuewalk.com/2012/07/lockheed-martin-threatens-layoffs-politics-at-play/ Heres some information regarding the budget cut Corwin: I don't think it's winking.... I think cocacolacowboy has a facial tick...... and he's probably sensitive about it, so lets not tease him.  cocacolacowboy27: Coffrey, I am curious. You are an atheist by confession. Is this because you can not see, hear, or touch and feel God? I mean in the condition you are physically in, can you do any of these things? BTW Corvin...funny LOL Coffrey: Haha we're winking because it's a fun conversation, it's how all conversations should be on issues we disagree with. If everyone was fervent, and dare I say fundamentalist, few people would change their minds. Yeah, on the CFA coverage, that is important, but it isn't important when constitutional rights are threatened Gitmo, or whenever the government spies on you, it's only when it's a semi-sexual context and I think they have better things to spend their news budget on. Haha, my view is very simple. What if a bunch of Native Americans, and this was all lawful, came over and said they are taking over your neighborhood? Would you allow it? You're conflating two issues here, what is right to do and what is legal to do, and I would also say a non-sequitur as well. What is right to do changes with each person's own personal code. I don't think it's right that someone has 6 kids without a means to support themselves. Should it be illegal then? Who knows. As it stands, only two of the commandments have any impact on our legal system, not to mention things that have existed for time immemorial, like rape, not being on the ten commandments that we just came up with without the need of divine guidance. Oh and you covet, but you don't necessarily steal. If someone stops coveting, then they don't get any richer or anything more of what they want. You tell me the person who doesn't covet and I'll show you a bullshitter As far as jobs being lost, govt's cutting from other places and losing a lot more jobs, or have by this point. So why is that any different? Or better yet, why not spend that money more productively, like on our infrastructure? I agree, you can't cut your way to prosperity, but you also can't throw a bunch of government money and grants into a field and expect a burgeoning economy. diversify Can't see touch, hear, or feel God? You mean as a physical object, like you, or more feelings, in your heart kind of thing? You know what they say, when you're talking to God, they call that prayer, when God talks to you, that's insanity cocacolacowboy27: I totally agree on the idea of a fun convo. It is nice to debate without anyone getting angry and mouthing off...just lay the ideas down for thought and enjoy it. I agree the news should cover constitutional rights issues no matter where they take place. BTW though, coveting is not only the thought or desire to have something, but being willing to do something that is wrong to get it There are places the government should cut....for starters, the politician's salaries could use a little trimming. When speaking of God, I mean in a physical sense...are those reasons part of why you deny his existence? Coffrey: Coveting is wanting + stealing? If that's the case, then why does the ten commandments address the same issue twice? Actually, I don't think their salaries should be cut, they are in charge of big decisions and if they make a miniscule amount, they'll make decisions on the side that will get them more money. WE should pay them well, not the corporations, because people only work for who pays them and if our politicians are getting rich by other things other than the public, then they'll work for them, not us. Haha deny his existence. Just a funny phrasing, you deny the existence of Santa Claus That's partly it, because he hasn't been demonstrated to be real and the mere fact of his existence contradicts everything that we know. You need more proof than a book with a few true incidents in it to make me believe something world altering. | Politics Chat Room 97 People Chatting Similar Conversations |
