And if a sparrow cannot fall to the Ground without his Notice, is it probable that an Empire can rise without his Aid?”

morning_glorie: “All of us who were engaged in the struggle must have observed frequent instances
of superintending providence in our favor. To that kind providence we owe this happy opportunity of consulting in peace on the means of establishing our future national felicity. And have we now forgotten that powerful friend? Or do we imagine that we no longer need his assistance? I have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth-that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the Ground without his Notice, is it probable that an Empire can rise without his Aid?”-Benjamin Franklin, To Colleagues at the Constitutional Convention

DawnGurl: It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I also cannot imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere.... Science has been charged with undermining morality, but the charge is unjust. A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death.
Albert Einstein

The13th: Ya, better discuss God here instead of under Religion. I am not too sure how to talk to those fellow to begin with. But if Lori100 found us here all bets are off.

morning_glorie: yea

The13th: God is the grand designer. And we need people like Ben Franklin to work out the details. And Simon Crowell to make it rediculously fun.

duncan124:
So where do the Gays fit in to this modern life, where do they fit in to the Church?

morning_glorie: As 2014 begins, I'm earnestly praying our great nation will see the error of her ways. I pray for a rediscovery of the Bible as the authoritative Word of God – a revival of the true religion of Jesus Christ as prophet, priest and king. I pray that God would stay his hand of wrath for the sake of our children and our children's children. I hope you'll join me in that prayer....THE CHRISTIAN POST

Wild__: God hates us all - K. King

Perhaps if all of our separate religions came to terms with those four words there would be no further need for holy wars.

morning_glorie: John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

The13th: Nah. If god truely love us he would have give us all the goodness whether we believe in him or not. And I have to say that the book does not carry much weight here in this section. John can say anything he wish. But he has to convince me. He hasn't after all these years.

morning_glorie:

Zanjan: "-that God governs in the affairs of men."

Apparently, He's not getting too many votes.

God is aware of all things but He isn't into politics and neither was Jesus - the Kingdom of God doesn't belong to the temporal world. Humans govern the temporal world, and you can see what a mess they've made of it. How inept are humans! If God were to govern that, it would have been done right.

As for the other affairs of men, that's on an individual level; for those who aren't guided by God, why should they expect Him to help them? Seriously!

Having said that, there's an old prophecy to the expected Promised One of God Who *will* take on responsibilities of the structure of governance. This is a new feature and those gone before had no idea what that would look like.

However, we can take a cue from the visual - "the government will be on His shoulders" - not head, not feet, but shoulders. Note: there are two shoulders so, one can expect He would orchestrate complimentary institutions and God would hold them up.

I see the Unity of God when I look to the United Nations as an expression of His Will. That's one institution already here. It couldn't appear without presence of a religious institution which is also globally united. They go hand in hand.

Wild__: If humans are inept and humans were made in god's image, then what does that say about god?

Zanjan: It says that some people's mirrors are too muddy to reflect an image. They need to get out their cleaning rags, ok.

Wild__: Or perhaps I'm a vampire.

Zanjan: God has a place for blood suckers - I respect that because they can come in handy once in awhile. ::

Wild__: Are you referring to "red wings?"

Zanjan: Let's just say, if you want to bare your neck to the bite, who am I to stop you?

Wild__: Leviticus 20:18

And if a man shall lie with a woman having her sickness, and shall uncover her nakedness; he hath made naked her fountain, and she hath uncovered the fountain of her blood: and both of them shall be cut off from among their people.

I'm not overly religious but if you are then you would be sinning by not stopping a man from "bearing his neck."

Zanjan: Who do you suppose, amongst their people, would know the two of them did that? Who's the tattletale, huh?

Hey, I was never a Jew so I could never sin by Jewish law. Besides, that only applied to pre-menopausal women. Thence came the notion, it takes a woman to make a man sin. Oh them wicked cougars!

Wild__: You'd think the "fountain of her blood" on his face might be a tell tale sign.

Wild__: Lead me not to temptation, I can find it myself.

The13th: I happen not to think human are inept. I am actually quite impressed by how far they have come. It certainly aint pretty, its worst than messy, and great conflicts seems to be inevitable among our future generations, but somehow we will take it further. God, if he exist, will be in awe of us.

Zanjan: It's ok to pump yourself up if it gives you the courage to enter the fray. It's not ok to over- inflate one's self esteem.

It's by owning up to ineptness that we formally recognize those mistakes; that's the moment we take responsibility for rectifying them, even if we weren't the ones who made them. This is how we improve.

God will never be in awe of us - we will be in awe of Him.

The13th: I watch a child grown up - he has fun, he is happy, he did smart things, he did silly things, he is sometime generous, but more often selfish. He likes this, he hate that. He has survival instinct, he knows how to threaten parents to give in to him, but he is jeolously in love with the parents as well. He most probably wont have a clue how to run this world - yet I never thought he is inept. He is all I ask for in a mankind, and I think the world should make itself a simple play ground for this child. And all children. And this would be an ok world.

But if along the way the child go on to create a house, a society, tools, machine, business, science, law and order, war, hardship, struggle, conflicts, chaos, evil, recover, then go on and on. I have to be in awe of this simple child. He has done things I dont see myself able to.

God may or may not create mankind or this universe, but I am very sure thereafter we did everything on our own. If we never did all these, god never will. Without us mankind, all god gets to do is to watch big stones circling bigger stones. So how is it possible that he is not in awe of us.

Zanjan: Because God doesn't need us - He can well dispense with everyone. He has the beauty of His own perfection to admire.

However, He loved His idea of man so He created us, just because He could. It is WE who need God; built into us, is the intelligence and desire to know Him.