Is it the end of capitalism? (Page 80) Sir Loin: I agree with Jack. Often revolution is the only solution. The scumbags in power do not give up that power and the associated riches easily. Elections can be rigged (eg: Philippines) they control the police and army leaving no legitimate method for citizens to overthrow them. Perhaps ALL politicians should be put against a wall and shot?  Outbackjack: Wrong Ghostgeek. That's the U.S (as usual through their proxies) helping Muslim extremists overthrow dictators who don't hold U.S Imperialist values. Outbackjack: Of course it didn't. But what if in Russia the pendulum had swung towards Fascism instead? We might all be speaking German or Russian (well I would be speaking Japanese).  ghostgeek: What if they'd stuck with Capitalism? Maybe then there wouldn't have been any Second World War.
Outbackjack: For starters Lenins Russia was Capitalist. State Capitalist. I don't believe that Russia could have survived as it was under the Tsar. It was WW! and the Russians were getting slaughtered. A mass desertion was already occurring under Kerensky who was trying to get them to continue the war.in 1917 after the first revolution.The second revolution just happened to be led by the Bolsheviks who swept aside Kerensky and were still not a large group at the time when you consider the size of the Mensheviks. It was a crucial time and it was really open anyone to step in including fascists. Outbackjack: If you are interested you should read about this fellow.It's a fascinating read: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidney_Reilly Ian Fleming based James Bond on him. He almost single handedly overthrew the Bolsheviks in 1918 with the Lockhart plot.The Bolsheviks would have been finished if it wasn't for the mercenaries they had employed. I have read at least two books on him and it is an unbelievable story.  duncan124: The Germans had started the Second World war before the first had ended. Perhaps the Revolution in Russia made the fascists and Nazis more adventurous but the second was clearly a continuation of the first. Just look at the pictures of 1920s cars being turned in to armoured military vehicles by the German military ministry. By the 1930s they had developed all the major military vehicles they were going to use in WW2. ghostgeek: It's interesting to ponder what might have been if the world hadn't gone to war in 1914. Russia, though backward, was the world's fourth largest economy after the United States, Germany and Great Britain, and accounted for some 6 percent of global gross domestic product.  Metaverseguy: Little known fact: Russia has currency and money. So do many other countries labelled "red". If you had a time machine and could go back to say Normandy sometime between 1939 and 1945 or Poland in 1939 what would you try and do differently? Outbackjack: I believe it''s just all about recognising those points in history where there was mass upheaval and things could have gone anyway. Fascism Versus Communism or indeed Anarchism. Russia 1917 Italy 1922 Germany 1930 Spain 1936  DEEP_acheleg: as far as working within the system... the system needs to be fixed- the issue is with reaching mutual acceptance of the root problems. DEEP_acheleg: I Lipton, your embedded YouTube imbed don't play on mobiles. Are they your evidence or arguments? Metaverseguy: USA wasn't capitalist anyways. The entire govt was an oligarchy. Congress and the president had to check-in with CEO's to make sure new laws were reaming voters in the butt before being passed.  LiptonCambell: Lol sadly no. It's a more objective take on both our stances, to be honest. But it's a good source,and they happened to discuss what we were discussing here, so i decided to add it to anyone who cared to watch it | Politics Chat Room 67 People Chatting Similar Conversations |
