Is it the end of capitalism? (Page 4)

davidk14: .

Twenty years ago, the extreme to severe poverty in China was close to 70% and the capitalism they introduced brought that number down to 53%. By doing this, if brought over 100,000,000 souls out of poverty.

Slasian said:

I want you to frankly talk about the ills of capitalism, which eventually take us a total destruction to the environment and humanity because of its love to endless wars that create a huge sum of profit to the few.

David responds:

Stalin and Mao and others murdered 100's of millions in the name of what? Capitalism? Radical Islamist's are murdering in the name of what? Capitalism? North Korea's abysmal human rights record is caused by what? Capitalism? Iran is developing nukes in the name of capitalism? Capitalism is responsible for the ills of the planet?

Get real.

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lavendar_star: Well personally David that's why I wouldn't want to live in a communist society and lucky I dont.

However, I do have problem how in the capitalist society that I live in, my country makes huge profits from arms sells one of its big industries, the sexualisation of the media including music, television video games, magazines and advertising which is directed at the youth so that can relentless promote consumerism to them. I do have problem between the relationship between pharmaceutics industry and medical profession who are drugging up our children and adults with various mental/ diagnosis and sell them various anti psychotic drugs for profit. I have problems with toxic waste and other environment concern relate to big businesses which affects both humans, wildlife and the planet as a whole, I have problems with my government allowing private companies accessing my personal date to private firms for profit, I hate the fact that many big businesses in the West exploit other nations resources for profit. Actually there are quite a few things. BTW I live in the UK. But I get your point none the less.

Znthnk: I guess the question is: What should be owned and what should be shared, and why? I see little purpose to strut out Cold War talking points (capitalism vs communism/socialism) in a time of global capital and environmental concerns.

davidk14: .

Food?

Water?

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lavendar_star: Well in the UK the public owned our utility companies and since they have been sold off the prices have gone up as well as companies profits, resulting in old people in rich Britain freezing to death because they cant afford their gas and or/electric bill in the winter. But good questions Znthnk I shall ponder on it.

sunndance07: I am a history pro and I can tell you with 100% certainty Socialism is inevitable. Whether 50 years or 200 years, all countries with be socialist. The educated know that. Dont shoot the messenger, just sayin...

davidk14: .

"Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance; the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."

Winston Churchill

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sunndance07: I agree with Churchill. But his true quote will not stop the inevitable.

slasian: Mr. david, the inevitable is the fall of capitalism, it will fall because its economic canons are irrational and illogical. Like I said it in my previous posts which you deliberately dodge and never answer, the flow of money has to be balanced. Now we had more than 3/4 of the human race in utter poverty. The environment, because of the capitalists’ greed is dying so fast and we could no longer continue down this way. Personally, I do not believe, Stalin or Mao represent Communism, not even Castro.

You know, we didn’t even get the chance to comprehend the idea of communism. What the so called communists had done before was organized fraud; they used the name of communism, which was spoiled by ‘commerade’ Lenin, and adopted this system to become dictators who constitutionally avoid open public elections and multi party politics. They are not communists, they might be politically communist, which by the way is rewritten many times and ruined forever, but they were not communists in its economic realm.

The world had never witnessed a communist. My point still is not to advocate communism. What I am telling you is about the beginning’s beginning, the signs that mark the fall of capitalism that are already visible all over the world. The system, because of its irrational rewarding method allows the few to get all and the rest dwells on the left over. Hence such a system is a poison which will reduce man kind to a simple money maker machine. The system, because of its irrational love to private property, will destroy nature and the planet. What those people are doing right now in the streets of many developed countries is the sign of the fall. They are fighting a war to avoid the dead ends of capitalism. A very gruesome future which might even end up in complete inhalation of man kind just because of lack of water or because of a war which caused by the capitalists’ need to control money making resources, they are signaling us that the fall of capitalism, before it took us with it, is sooner than expected.

The statement of a capitalist scientist, which is mostly heard all over the media goes like this: the world will soon replace its energy source and all will be less pollutant… It is very interesting. Does he know what this alternative energy source will be? No, he simply has faith. Does he know that the fat governments in those industrialized nations never even think about replacing the existing energy source? NO. Does he even had the slightest Idea that Oil, the source of many wars and conflicts which at the same time is no. one pollution factor, is used as the means to control and hypnotize the multitude by very few capitalists? NO. All he knows is that he is a scientist and Science will find a way. I hear militant capitalists, those who think that capitalism will find a way to alter the present situation of the 4billion poor brothers and sisters and the environment which is dying faster than our electric trains, saying the destruction of the environment, pollution, and radiation will all be controlled. And I see them act upon their words. Do they know how these things will be controlled? No, they simply have faith.

Reality in history offers a different answer. Faith had never saved the great Babylonians, faith had never barred the death of Greek civilization, Faith had never stopped the immortal Rome, and all had failed. They all share the same thing slaves and unfair distribution of wealth. If you ask me who are the slaves in capitalism I will tell you. People living in the 3rd world, people who are systematically being robed even in the developed nations, or to make the list shorter 80 pc of present day humans are slaves in capitalism. Yes more than 5billion people are slaves today. The difference is, in those old times slaves are owned by a human master, now the system is the master. Hence what history proves over and over is that the humans had always found a way to over throw their masters. It might take a century or a millennium but a system that carries to many slaves will fall.

You might be fooled by the situations in very few western nations, but the entire globe is suffering. More than 1billion people around the world lack access to pure water (access david not coverage) while a single man could own an island with a fountain. More than 1billion people lack nutritious food while a single man could own wealth more than enough to feed an entire country. That is why this system is dying right now and what makes the fall of capitalism even gruesome than the practice of the system itself is; it will take most of the world to the grave with its sorry ass.

DON’T TELL US EVERY THING IS OKEY, THE WORLD NEEDS A STIR, A STIR TO GET RID OF THE ILL FROM CAPITALISM. I THINK THE REAST OF US SHOULD NOT WAIT COMMUNISM TO BE THE STEER TO OUR NEW DESTINATION, COMMUNISM WHICH MIGHT OR MIGHT NOT WORK. ALL WE GOT TO DO IS LOOK WITH OUR EYES AND ADMIT THE ENEVITABLE―THE FALL OF CAPITALISM.

slasian: These are the souls that are challenging us to awaken, to recognize what is the truth and what is the lie, to recognize all the lies that we are living in; how we live in the time of the Great Lie, how medicine makes us ill, how economics make us poor, how companies make us slaves.

davidk14: .

Medicine makes us ill? Economics makes us poor? Companies makes us slaves? I guess if you are an anarchist, you believe it.

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Znthnk: slasian: Thanks for the thoughtful, heartfelt response. While I may not agree with some of it, I appreciate it's sincerity.

Any system that increasing benefits a decreasing proportional minority is unsustainable. I believe people don't need any comprehensive knowledge of politics, history and economics to see simple injustices they witness or hear from close ones. The "experts/ideologues" often attempt to persuade them "not to believe their lying eyes". At the end of it all, many people I've spoken including myself sense a profound shift happening that we'll have to adjust to. Ideas flow at the speed of light now, and we may witness something unprecedented in human history. Change is inevitable, feels imminent, it's nature impossible to predict.

sunndance07: Captialism will not die because it is inherently right or wrong, good or bad; it will fail because in time a downward spiral has to occur and the only way out is change.

slasian: You are well come Mr. Znthnk, and as long us you believe in change, I will stand with you and fight.

sunndance 07 you also believe but yours comes from the thought of circular existence and a slight pessimism. Change, according to you, is inevitable not because we are looking for the better but the system, in its natural course falls to a down ward spiral and change is the only way out. well we share the ‘change’ thing but if you think that every system, inevitably, goes down and change then will be the only way out... its like history repeats it self. To be honest, I can't argue with that because history does repeat it self and most systems in their last eon inescapably were going downward. I can also see the circular motion of existence in your point, things will go to their peak then fall and every thing will start from the scratch and there it goes forever. This also is correct and history witnessed civilizations and empires falling and rising falling and rising. Like the PHOENIX WE RISE FROM THE ASHES, but as an optimist I reject this truth (so far it is the truth) and one day we, as an intellectual life form, will find a way to beat the circular matrix and find a system that will take us to… the earth where opportunities and harmony goes hand in hand.

Serabi: Slasian, are you real or a distorted figment of some intelectually disadvantaged persons' mind?

slasian: Would you please explain why you say this?

slasian: Serbi, tic tac tic tac, am waiting.

Comrade_: Serabi, before you go off to insult someone's intelligence it will be a good idea to check your grammar/spelling errors first. Just a tip.

davidk14: .

Slasian said: Now we had more than 3/4 of the human race in utter poverty. The environment, because of the capitalists’ greed is dying so fast and we could no longer continue down this way.

David responds:

Before you post your rhetoric, you need to fact check your material. According to the following web-site:

http://www.trickleup.org/?gclid=CMiz7vfx_KwCFSxrtgodoWamSg

…or even if you wiki, the number you post is totally inaccurate. You say 75% of the world is in utter poverty which of course is completely false.. The number is approximately 1.4 billion of the worlds 7 billion which is 20%. This number of course is unacceptable but for you to exaggerate to support your point of view shows your extremist ideas.


Slasian said: You know, we didn’t even get the chance to comprehend the idea of communism. What the so called communists had done before was organized fraud; they used the name of communism, which was spoiled by ‘commerade’ Lenin, and adopted this system to become dictators who constitutionally avoid open public elections and multi party politics. They are not communists, they might be politically communist, which by the way is rewritten many times and ruined forever, but they were not communists in its economic realm.

David responds:

Your entire point of view regarding your statement is based on what? That communism is voluntary? The reason it doesn’t work as history has shown from those like Lenin and other “dictators”, communism needs to be forced onto the populace. Your whole point of view is flawed.


serabi said: Slasian, are you real or a distorted figment of some intelectually disadvantaged persons' mind?

Jack said: Serabi, before you go off to insult someone's intelligence it will be a good idea to check your grammar/spelling errors first. Just a tip.

David responds:

Jack, maybe it would be a good idea for you to listen and have questioned Slasian’s facts and not be so judgmental on others typing skills. Serabi was correct in his statement, but then, that’s just my point of view.

Also…

Let’s not forget the facts that when China introduced capitalism into its society, China reduced its extreme poverty from 70% to 53% and brought 110 million people out of poverty.

Communism does the exact opposite….or worse.

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lavendar_star: No im sorry just because you don't agree with someone views or/and opinions you don't have to be rude and insulting, especially when one (serabi) has nothing else to contribute. People don't like it when they are insulted but find it acceptable when others are.

davidk14: .

Star said: … just because you don't agree with someone views or/and opinions you don't have to be rude and insulting…People don't like it when they are insulted but find it acceptable when others are.


David responds:

Star,

You believe some of my thoughts are insulting from my last post?


….you need to fact check your material

…unacceptable but for you to exaggerate to support your point of view shows your extremist ideas.

… your whole point of view is flawed.

…maybe it would be a good idea for you to listen

…and not be so judgmental on others typing skills



You believe these thoughts are insulting?

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Comrade_:
David, maybe it's cool for you to insult others on a personal level than to stick to refuting their post, but don't tell me that I should join in on insulting someone.

davidk14: .

But Jack...you did insult Serabi. Are you dense?

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Comrade_: What Slasian says it is based on his belief, I'm not fighting for communism/socialism and neither Capitalism. But there are some serious flaws in the capitalistic model instead of throwing mud around it is better to think about those flaws and see how it can be fixed.

lavendar_star: I was referring to Serabi comments and to certain extent your support of her insulting comments David. I ve seen you and others insulted by other people on various topic pages and people don't like it when it done to themselves or their friends or people who share the same views, but agree with it when it done to someone they are neither friends with or dont share the same views. That I find wrong and hypocritical.

Why the need to be rude to someone or get personally, apart from calling some people ignorant or right wing I do not insult people if they do not agree with my views, im not religious but I live by the saying "do not do to others which you would not like done to yourself" or something like that lol