President Bush.. Great president.. or.. the GREATEST president? (Page 5)

OCD_OCD
OCD_OCD: Canada is insulated because of their common border with the U.S. It affords them the ability to sit back and hide behind the big dog as far as their safety is concerned.
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lovenitrite
lovenitrite: well maybe we get bit by the big dog dude,common borders mean nothing to an unstable wor mongering nation, lest we forget eh
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OCD_OCD
OCD_OCD: Maybe we'll buy all of our illegal aliens a ticket to hop right across the U.S. and come to Canada.
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lovenitrite
lovenitrite: most of them r already here dude,,,,,,we cant buy a coffee without an interpreter
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OCD_OCD
OCD_OCD: You need more? We have plenty to spare. And you have health care also. They love that. LOL
(Edited by OCD_OCD)
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Comrade_
Comrade_: they pay taxes so you can count on that too ey while you're at it they make good slaves, you can underpay them let them do the 'lesser' work. HAAHA

...might as well join in on the spitting.

Here's an idea, how about you control your Government and make them not reward or set incentives to illegal immigration and prevent it from escalating instead of talking about illegal immigrants as if they're filth? Just a thought.
(Edited by Comrade_)
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OCD_OCD
OCD_OCD: Jack, I don't think you know how many illegal aliens work for cash.

And the "incentives" we have are job opportunities. No one has said they were "filth" and I resent that you said that. They are without status here and do not deserve to take out of a system that they do not put into to the same measure that citizens do.
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Comrade_
Comrade_:
The incentives you have is the wet foot-dry foot policy, etc. They do pay taxes and "put in" via cheap labour etc, (perhaps more than your average 'citizen' who will sit happily on welfare) why are you leaving this important detail out? I'm not saying that illegal immigration should be supported, I'm saying that it is YOUR duty to ensure that YOUR Government handles illegal immigration in the right way, not degrade them.
Illegal aliens are everywhere, they immigrate for a reason that starts at their home country.
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OCD_OCD
OCD_OCD: Jack, in case you haven't noticed, we have been trying to do something about our illegal alien population and the enormous amount of burden it puts on our system.

I'm not for the welfare state we have become, either.

And you keep harping on the "degradation" of illegal aliens. Degrading them in what way? By supplying them with medical care, welfare, social security, school for their children in their native language? WTH is so degrading about that?

If you think it is "degrading" for me to dislike the fact that they don't bother to either legalize their citizenship or assimilate into the American culture, then you can call that degrading all you want. There's a difference between disliking their actions and disliking their ethnicity, so don't shove that down my throat when it doesn't apply.
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Comrade_
Comrade_:
Degrading they way you speak about them OCD. Your country isn't the only one facing illegal immigration. And why you always fail to mention that they do pay taxes & work in the lesser conditions with minimal pay?
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OCD_OCD
OCD_OCD: Jack, with all due respect, do you live in the U.S.?
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Comrade_
Comrade_:
I don't see how that relates to what I posted. The information is out in the open OCD, you might not be aware of it but your illegal immigrants do pay taxes and do menial jobs for less pay.
You can't speak about a group of people like that, it doesn't solve the issue.
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OCD_OCD
OCD_OCD: And you know what you think you know from reading blogs and newspapers. We are living it here. I know what the system does and I know what the system says they do and they are not always the same.

There are some illegal immigrants who pay taxes, based on breaking the law and having fake or stolen social security cards. There are tons of immigrants who are of the age to get social security who are on social security and have never had a job in the U.S. because they either came over and stayed or were brought over by their families who were already here illegally. We cannot pay for the retirement of every aged person who comes from another country, nor can we pay for their medical care.

And yes, I can speak about a group of people (regardless of their ethnicity) who are a burden on the system without adding anything to it and who do so by illegal means.
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Comrade_
Comrade_: I don't have limited knowledge on the situation. So you're good with talking down to a group of people because they're illegal? I don't support illegal immigration but I'm not going to go down to that standard.

You will not know everything that happens in your country without reading (reading the same information that I read btw that is available globally) You will only know what you see.
If there is something that I said that was wrong then provide me with information that will prove what I said was wrong.
Till then it stands that your illegal immigrants pays taxes & work minimal for little pay as I said.

"According to the Immigration Policy Center, which estimates that households headed by illegal immigrants paid a combined $11.2 billion in state and local taxes during 2010."

"Based on estimates compiled by the Institute for Taxation and Economic Policy (ITEP), the Immigration Policy Center reported that the $11.2 billion in taxes paid by illegal immigrants in 2010 included $8.4 billion in sales taxes, $1.6 billion in property taxes and $1.2 billion in state personal income taxes."

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OCD_OCD
OCD_OCD: Telling the truth is not speaking down to anyone, Jack. Illegal is illegal and if you consider calling someone illegal who is, in fact, illegal, then there's no discussion to be had.

Illegal is illegal. You can believe that they are all perfect citizens if you want. You can believe that they have not clogged our jail systems if you want. You can believe that they are not a burden on the taxpayers or our school systems if you want.

They take more from this country than they give and the reason they do so is because they are not willing to abide by our laws.
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Comrade_
Comrade_: OCD, c'mon get real here I called them "illegal" immigrants and I know they're illegal, I'm not going around trying to make it sound 'legal' but at least it's better than grouping them all up as something that is the cause of all the systems failing.
Are you willing to show sources that indicates that illegal immigrants are the cause for all your systems failing? By 'cause' I don't mean 'contributors'. Or was that from your personal view point?
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OCD_OCD
OCD_OCD: I "group them all up" as illegals because they are illegal.

I didn't say they were the cause of all of our systems failing, now did I? I said they were an unsustainable burden and I'll stand by that.
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Comrade_
Comrade_: why did you pull out words and attach your own meaning to them? Wasn't it clear that "group them all up" was part of the sentence: "grouping them all up as something that is the cause of all the systems failing". Meaning that perhaps, just perhaps illegal immigrants are not the cause of your systems failing, that there is something else behind it?

"You can believe that they are all perfect citizens if you want. You can believe that they have not clogged our jail systems if you want. You can believe that they are not a burden on the taxpayers or our school systems if you want"

I asked the question based on what you said above. Then if you say they're not the cause of the problem then they are just contributors along with the other US citizens. Not every single illegal immigrant will be in the jail system, then as a ratio the majority is the US citizens themselves?
(Edited by Comrade_)
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davidk14
davidk14: .

Jack,

You do realize numerous hospitals and health care clinics in the US especially in the S/W have gone bankrupt and out of business because of illegal aliens don't you? By law, illegal aliens must receive medical care yet they do not have to pay a penny.

.
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OCD_OCD
OCD_OCD: Jack, again, you are putting words in my mouth. I never said that every single immigrant will be in the jail system. I said they are a burden on the jail system.

The numbers shown below are old. The current numbers are probably more staggering:


Justice Dept. Figures on Incarcerated Illegals

One of the more popular claims by illegal immigration proponents is that those who enter the U.S. by breaking the law are invariably "hard-working" and "law-abiding" once they get here.

That argument, however, has one major flaw. According to Justice Department statistics and the analysis of immigration experts, the "law-abiding" claim often isn't true.

As Investors Business Daily reported in March 2005:

"The U.S. Justice Department estimated that 270,000 illegal immigrants served jail time nationally in 2003. Of those, 108,000 were in California. Some estimates show illegals now make up half of California's prison population, creating a massive criminal subculture that strains state budgets and creates a nightmare for local police forces."

Citing an Urban Institute study, director of research for the Center for Immigration Studies Steven Camorata noted in 2004: "Roughly 17 percent of the prison population at the federal level are illegal aliens. That's a huge number since illegal aliens only account for about 3 percent of the total population."

As to the "hard-working" claim, CIS notes: "The proportion of immigrant-headed households using at least one major welfare program is 24.5 percent compared to 16.3 percent for native households."

Investor's Business Daily concurs: "Once [illegals] get here, they are 50 percent more likely to be on welfare than citizens."

This is from Newsmax.com
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OCD_OCD
OCD_OCD: You can take issue with that all you want, Jack.
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lovenitrite
lovenitrite: seems u boys have hit some nerves on the immigration shit. good vollies from both of u. my hats off to free speech, my own opinion is that we should tolerate all kinds of immigration, but make damn sure they dont bleed the system, we have our politicians to milk us, we dont need any more milking. presonally my tete is dry now.
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OCD_OCD
OCD_OCD: Thank you Lovenitrite. We really do have an extremely untenable situation as it relates to illegal immigration at this point.
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lavendar_star
lavendar_star: I have to say we have similar issue in the UK with illegal Immigration which pretty much mirrors America apart from the fact we are far small country.

I dont believe in demonising them as Jack was suggesting but I do agree with the strain that they have on our public services and that our country is unable to sustain it.
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lovenitrite
lovenitrite: well hell i gotta a plan...ive dictated that when they bury me they turn me face down.....so the whole world can kiss my ass. immigrants included, politicians preferred
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