Is the United States a Police State? (Page 11) queentma: ask me any question you want in history...i got you...im born bred and proud to be a big mouth over bearing see something say something biatch from new york!go ahead shoot away,all you got too do is ask...america is a very diverse face,next person may not be as educated,but i damn sure can tell you of worl d history...ha and who would figure...dumb american like me queentma: oh now you gonna bring up africans too...ooooohhhh!...i got too get off this page...gettin heated  davidk14: . Bumpa said: I don't know where you get your info from. David responds: Just honest research. Even someone from the Philippines can have the wrong conclusions based on inaccurate information. Bumpa said: USA did a lot to liberate the islands from Japan (along with other countries) but then invaded Mindanao in 1947 to wage war on the Muslim Moro’s, it hasn't left and the majority of citizens there feel VERY anti America. Having spent some time there I can personally vouch for this. David responds: The Battle of Mindanao was fought by United States forces and allied Filipino guerrillas against the Japanese from 10 March-15 August 1945 at Mindanao island in the Philippine Archipelago, in a series of actions officially designated as Operation VICTOR V, and part of the campaign for the liberation of the Philippines during World War II. The battle was waged to complete the recapture of the southernmost portions of the archipelago and secure them from remaining Japanese forces. Source: History of United States Naval Operations in World War II. Vol. 13: The Liberation of the Philippines—Luzon, Mindanao, the Visayas, 1944-1945 by Samuel Eliot Morison (2002) University of Illinois Press, ISBN 0-252-07064-X David continues: So you see Bumpa, you have made conclusions about Mindanao that are not historical correct facts. Bumpa said: As for the millions killed? You must have a very short memory to forget Cambodia and Laos. 6 years of daily bombing civilian targets in the 1960s and 70s. Many of Pol Pots so called killing fields were actually the sites of whole villages firebombed by US Airforce B52s. Of course there was also Vietnam, victim of American aggression. There is no possible justification for American involvement in this country. David responds: You are bringing up a topic that has been thoroughly dissected numerous ways. And no, I do not have a short memory since I lived through that era. The Khmer Rouge period (1975–1979) refers to the rule of Pol Pot, Nuon Chea, Ieng Sary, Son Sen, Khieu Samphan and the Khmer Rouge Communist party over Cambodia, which the Khmer Rouge renamed as Democratic Kampuchea. The four-year period saw the deaths of approximately two million Cambodians through the combined result of political executions, starvation, and forced labor. Due to the large numbers, the deaths during the rule of the Khmer Rouge are often considered a genocide, and commonly known as the Cambodian Holocaust or Cambodian Genocide. The Khmer Rouge period ended with the invasion of Cambodia by neighbor and former ally Vietnam in the Cambodian–Vietnamese War, which left Cambodia under Vietnamese occupation for a decade. Source: Noam Chomsky on Cambodia under Pol Pot David continues: The best war is the war that is never fought. WW 1 had millions of casualties. There are those that believe the US should have never been involved. WW 2 had tens of millions of casualties and some estimate 70-100 million deaths. There are those that believe the US should never have been involved in this war either as well as the Korean War and Viet Nam War which also had millions of deaths. For you only to point at war dead as United States aggression is inaccurate at best and there are those who hate the United States who support twisted versions of historical factual information. There are those that deny the Holocaust ever happened and that it was created by the United States. There are those that deny that the US ever landed on the moon. There are those that believe that 911 was conceived and executed by the US government. In many instances, as the ones I just mentioned, there are those that blieve that these undocumented and historically inaccurate and dishonest comments are historically accurate. ..  Venom1969: The United States does do some bad things..every country does.....but the USA also does a lot of good... Bumpa: David and Queen, you both seem very typically American. By that I mean, if it happened and you don't like it, just deny it! It is impossible to argue with such a distorted view on history so I won't bother. The incidents I have mentioned DID happen no matter how distasteful they may be to you.  (Post deleted by staff ) Bumpa: Queen, about the marine ecosystem...Yes it is USA's fault there are no fish left there. The methods employed by American tuna boats leave nothing behind. Every fish is taken regardless of whether they have reached breeding age or not. The same thing has happened in Somali waters so the local fishermen have resorted to piracy to feed their families. Thanks once again America. davidk14: . Bumpa and Blackeyebabe: Sources please. In each of my recent posts, I left sources for my comments. Please provide sources to support your rediculous and uninformed claims. . Bumpa: I noticed you quoted sources David, well done! A bit difficult though when the incidents I quote are well documented historical facts. Please don't tell anyone I'm ridiculous or uninformed, you see I teach these things at university and I might lose my job. davidk14: . Bumpa, you say you teach at a University? Are you saying the following is inaccurate? That Noam Chomsky is inaccurate with this statement? The four-year period saw the deaths of approximately two million Cambodians through the combined result of political executions, starvation, and forced labor. Due to the large numbers, the deaths during the rule of the Khmer Rouge are often considered a genocide, and commonly known as the Cambodian Holocaust or Cambodian Genocide. The Khmer Rouge period ended with the invasion of Cambodia by neighbor and former ally Vietnam in the Cambodian–Vietnamese War, which left Cambodia under Vietnamese occupation for a decade. Source: Noam Chomsky on Cambodia under Pol Pot Bumpa, you say you teach at a University? Are you saying the following is inaccurate? That Samuel Eliot Morison is inaccurate with this statement? The Battle of Mindanao was fought by United States forces and allied Filipino guerrillas against the Japanese from 10 March-15 August 1945 at Mindanao island in the Philippine Archipelago, in a series of actions officially designated as Operation VICTOR V, and part of the campaign for the liberation of the Philippines during World War II. The battle was waged to complete the recapture of the southernmost portions of the archipelago and secure them from remaining Japanese forces. Source: History of United States Naval Operations in World War II. Vol. 13: The Liberation of the Philippines—Luzon, Mindanao, the Visayas, 1944-1945 by Samuel Eliot Morison (2002) University of Illinois Press, ISBN 0-252-07064-X David continues: So you see Bumpa, you have made conclusions about Mindanao that are not historical correct facts. If you are saying both these statements are incorrect, provide historical verifiable documentation to support your statement. . Devil Doc: The United States needs to care first for the problems at home instead of sticking it's nose in every world affair. The billions that are spent out there and given to people that basically want us dead is a joke. We have enough problems right here that the wealth of the the American tax payer should be spent here taking care of our own problems like hunger, unemployment, jobs and such.  artislife2982: I find it interesting how people can stare at true facts and still try to defend the fact that the U.S. is not a police state. Forgoing logic for Nationalist propaganda and being told they are not Patriotic if they do not agree that the U.S.A. are the good guys and everyone else is bad! Its kind of sad to see how people justify the actions of the U.S.A. because other countries do bad things to! Like empowering Saddam Hussein in the first place, or training the Mujaheddin to fight the Russians and then when the Russians loose move in for what the Russians were after in the first place. It's so wrong of someone pointing out that there would be less Terrorism in the world if the U.S.A. would not have campaigned the Palestinian exodus from 1946 to 1948! Giving Israel to the Jewish people. So America and all the other Countries that supported The Eugenic Ideals that Influenced the Holocaust would feel better about themselves and keep the Jewish population from migrating to America. 900,000 people were displaced for Gods chosen people! Palestinians won that land through thousands of years worth of Civil war between tribes and In two years they were dispersed across the Middle East as refugees.As an American I am horrified at the fact that people refuse to regard the fact that the reason there will never be peace in the Middle East is the fact that most all of the middle eastern countries believe Israel to be a lie! At any for those of you that try to use historical fact to educate those who are not educated but by Propaganda. Its not going to fair too well because the people that refuse to except the truth will then move to attack you as a person or the structure of your comment. Because we all know that those with a grammatical error have to be wrong! So I just say you can't fix stupid but one can hope to fix ignorance! artislife2982: I suppose that I will be accused of being Antisemitic because I do not support the establishment of Israel. I hope not because they would be wrong on that subject entirely! (Edited by artislife2982) queentma: my father was also a fisherman for over 40 years,the life and cycle of fish isnt something you can control...its not my fathers fault for your fathers loss!they have millions of spawns a day!opening old wounds wont do anything except make ya bleed girl...yall stay blessed im 10 7 the f outta heyah wid ma big frukn american mouth before i say thing i really think and feel ,b4 it get bummppiinn up in here for real!god bless this green earth and all his dumb ass creation...peace FreeTurk: Cops was awsome in Wisconsin I was driving my car when i had no driving lycence..When they stop me for a reason,i tell 'I am exchange student then they let me go all the time.. I havent seen any police like this in world ! memberX: i would;n consider US as a police state, if it was like that, there wouldnt be so many drug addicts, freaking maniacs, homosexuals, pedofilles, gamblers, financial frauds...blah blah blah.... well...take the example from China...that is the example for one hell of a police state...cause police is doing the best in the world over there...respect for them bababababbaaaaaaaahahahhahahaa (Edited by memberX) MultifariousEntity: Is the US a police state? I don't think so. Their foreign police however seems to be structured around the idea that they are the police of the world. JRUMROLL: You can't take in everything you hear, The truth is you have know Idea what is going on in the world, it is above everyone in this little chat room!! so for you to just think you know what the hell is going on makes me laugh... The one thing I can say is there has always been a Powerhouse in the world and as of right now The US is the power house (or so we are made to believe) some say china will rise in 20years and be above us, but thats not likly, every country has its ups and downs and china has yet to see a down point since they started rising!!!!! All we can do is Ramble on about "WHAT" we think we know or what they are teaching us in college or CNN hahaha!!!! Oh yea plz don't believe everything you hear on CNN =) (Post deleted by staff ) davidk14: . I’m not discounting eye witnesses. There is historical data available as well. I have a friend who was a US Marine who on a daily basis was in the bush to hunt and destroy these Japanese soldiers for three years after the formal surrender of the Japanese. He does not remember that it was a mop up of stragglers. His memories are of intense fighting and the combat deaths of many of his comrades. Another eye witness account. You need to re-read my other post. The US is not the only country fishing nor has the largest fishing fleet in the area. Your hate and disrespect for America is noted. . Bumpa: David you quote your sources as American writers, in American publications reporting on American actions as told to them by American military.... Hardly what I would call unbiased. Blackeyedbabe would be a far more reliable source I feel. It is a well known fact here in NZ that American military claims are usually exaggerated out of all recognition. Although I am harking back to WW2 which was the last time USA had a base in NZ. Appologies for this but you gotta work with what you got. There is an unfortunate attitude in the academic world that information from an academic source is somehow more reliable than anecdotal evidence from local people. Bullshit I say! BTW I regularly check on USAID as I am a member of Devex and get their newsletter weekly. Sorry mate, not impressed with what I see. It seems to me that US aid goes to the countries USA can ultimately get something from far more than the countries who would benefit the most. Plus much of the aid is to further the activities of organisations such as the American Law Society with their "rule of law" project. There are usually 100+ jobs advertised in the Devex newsletter all funded by USAID and all for administrative positions at hugely inflated salaries. How does this help feed a kid starving in Somalia? davidk14: . Bumpa: Thank you for your comments. All anyone can ask during these types of conversations is for the opposing view to be supported by reasonable, historical and verifiable information. Blakeyedbabe may or may not be a reliable, verifiable source. You say that it is a well know fact in NZ that American military claims are usually exaggerated. Great. Provide historical, verifiable information to back your claim up. Simple. Regarding the comment: David, who is this Samuel Morrison? Has he been to Mindanao? I doubt it. I have lived there many years and some of my family still do. My sources are my grandfather… David comments: The following information reflects who Samuel Eliot Morison from who I used his document which was questioned: History of United States Naval Operations in World War II. Vol. 13: The Liberation of the Philippines—Luzon, Mindanao, the Visayas, 1944-1945 by Samuel Eliot Morison (2002) University of Illinois Press, ISBN 0-252-07064-X Please note his lifetime accomplishments… Samuel Eliot Morison, Rear Admiral, United States Naval Reserve (July 9, 1887 – May 15, 1976) was an American historian noted for works of history (especially maritime history) that were both authoritative and highly readable. A sailor as well as a scholar, Morison garnered numerous literary prizes, military honors, and national awards from both foreign countries and United States, including the Presidential Medal of Freedom. Some of his textbooks continue to be widely used [35 years after his death]. Military and foreign honors • Legion of Merit with Combat Distinguishing Device "V" • World War I Victory Medal • American Campaign Medal • Asiatic-Pacific Campaign Medal • European-African-Middle Eastern Campaign Medal • World War Two Victory Medal • Philippine Liberation Ribbon • Commander of the Order of the White Rose of Finland • Vuelo Panamericano Medal, awarded by the Republic of Cuba (1943)[15] • Cavaliero Ufficiale of the Italian Order, Ordine al Merito della Repubblica (1961) • Commander of the Spanish Order of Isabel la Catolica (1963) Honorary degrees • Trinity College, Hartford (1935) • Amherst College (1936) • Harvard University (1936) • Union College (1939) • Columbia University (1942) • Yale University (1949) • Williams College (1950) • University of Oxford (1951) • Bucknell University (1960) • Boston College (1961) • College of the Holy Cross (1962) Regarding the fishing issue: Source - The UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) Regarding USAID: This aid arm of the US government is funded by less that 1% of the entire federal budget. This 1% of the federal budget has been in the control of liberal democrats in congress for the last two years of the Bush administration and the first 3 years of the Obama administration. Perhaps we will see better use and or increase of funds. Unfortunately, there are many that want to completely put USAID out of business. How does this help the starving in Somalia? Not a drop in the ocean. See my recent Somalia thread if you have a moment. Again thanks for your comments. . Bumpa: Thanks for that David. So Morrison is ex navy? That immediately makes his writing suspect to me sorry. In all likelihood any claims he makes in his works will be exaggerated so as to appeal to the American public. Once again Blackeyedbabe would be a far more reliable source as she has lived there. As I said before much more credence should be given to anecdotal evidence. I had 2 uncles serving in the Pacific in WW2 and their memories were totally at odds with the "official" American history. academia is too full of bullshit to be considered at all reliable today. My own field of climate change is a prime example. Writers write for the kudos of being published, not to present truths. Much of American military history has been written by leaders with political ambitions eg: Eisenhower, Clark and, as such, is self serving crap. | Politics Chat Room 85 People Chatting Similar Conversations |
