Drug test + welfare = about darn time! (Page 25) Outbackjack: But if you supplied them with the drug then they would not need to break in to our houses. Agree?  davidk14: . Only if the drug addict agrees to become clean. If they do not seek treatment, I'd rather see them in jail than give them the drugs because they are stupid morons if they do not seek to become clean. I am not their brother or their bank account. .  Wild__: I'd rather give them drugs and a plot of land away from society where they can shoot up until they OD thus keeping our prison space free for murders and rapists. davidk14: . Not a bad argument however....let's just take the murderers, child molesters, and rapists out back once they are convicted and let them eat a bullet and then our prisons will be for those that can be helped. To give the drug addict a free ride is stupid. That just encourages drug dependency. .  LiptonCambell: Interesting comments; Jack, you suggest that if you supply them with the drug, they won't break into houses. Clearly this is not the case for rich drug addicts, or drug addicts that keep their addiction either under control or underwraps- which, I think we can all agree, there are more out there than what is honestly known I don't think drug addicts break into houses because they're drug addicts- they break into houses because they are poor, and are drug addicts. I have a hard time believing that break and enters will cease to exist once you start handing out free coke and meth. Poor people will still exist- and I would suspect more people would choose that lifestyle, since it has so many benefits. For the changes you are suggesting to have any meaningful impact on society, you wouldn't just offer free drugs- but free money. Eliminate poverty by redistributing wealth. You know- communism. I'm not trying to reduce your argument to "har har Jack's a commie"- I honestly am not.....but come on....people don't break and enter because drugs tell them to. They do it because they're living above their means,feel entitled to what others have, or are violent. I'm willing to bet over half of drug users are not breaking into peoples houses and stealing shit.... Outbackjack: Burglaries would not cease if drugs were given out but they would seeriously decline. Yes drug addicts who break into houses are definitely living beyond their means no doubt about it. That's because of the high cost of drugs.If you legalised drugs and taxed them the price would immediately fall.Therefore less addicts would be breaking into houses and you would immediately eliminate a source of income for sophisticated organised crime groups. Drug abusers who purchase drugs could subsidise addicts through taxation. The savings to the taxpayers and community would be phenomenal including: * The purity and consistency of the drug would mean less adverse actions therefore addicts would not be blocking up our emergency departments. * Addicts accessing drugs could be monitored and offered professional help to become clean. * Addicts would be provided with clean needles making HIV and other disease rates fall in our community.This would save our health systems possibly billions over decades. *Ex addicts are less likely to be claiming welfare and could become productive citizens who pay tax. * Less health problems would mean people could be more productive.Lost productivity due to all illnesses cannot be underestimated and runs into the billions each year. * Less burglaries equals lower insurance premiums. *There would be less demand on the prisons and policing. I could go on. I am not an medical expert I want to stress that point.I am just a construction worker. There are experts who could work out the in and outs of this.For example I really don't believe you would want to be prescribing Methamphetamine to people.So what is the alternative? Prescribe pharmaceutical speed? This may work for some but what about the diehard addict who wants meth? The same goes for Heroin but treating with methadone sometimes works as does with morphine. My point is that I am not proposing a perfect system. There has to be a new approach as our current system has failed completely and just serves to enrich an organised criminal elite at the expense of some of the most vulnerable people and their families in our society. Outbackjack: In the face of a growing number of deaths and cases of HIV linked to drug abuse, the Portuguese government in 2001 tried a new tack to get a handle on the problem—it decriminalized the use and possession of heroin, cocaine, marijuana, LSD and other illicit street drugs. The theory: focusing on treatment and prevention instead of jailing users would decrease the number of deaths and infections. Five years later, the number of deaths from street drug overdoses dropped from around 400 to 290 annually, and the number of new HIV cases caused by using dirty needles to inject heroin, cocaine and other illegal substances plummeted from nearly 1,400 in 2000 to about 400 in 2006, according to a report released recently by the Cato Institute, a Washington, D.C, libertarian think tank. "Now instead of being put into prison, addicts are going to treatment centers and they're learning how to control their drug usage or getting off drugs entirely," report author Glenn Greenwald, a former New York State constitutional litigator, said during a press briefing at Cato last week. Under the Portuguese plan, penalties for people caught dealing and trafficking drugs are unchanged; dealers are still jailed and subjected to fines depending on the crime. But people caught using or possessing small amounts—defined as the amount needed for 10 days of personal use—are brought before what's known as a "Dissuasion Commission," an administrative body created by the 2001 law. Each three-person commission includes at least one lawyer or judge and one health care or social services worker. The panel has the option of recommending treatment, a small fine, or no sanction. Peter Reuter, a criminologist at the University of Maryland, College Park, says he's skeptical decriminalization was the sole reason drug use slid in Portugal, noting that another factor, especially among teens, was a global decline in marijuana use. By the same token, he notes that critics were wrong in their warnings that decriminalizing drugs would make Lisbon a drug mecca. "Drug decriminalization did reach its primary goal in Portugal," of reducing the health consequences of drug use, he says, "and did not lead to Lisbon becoming a drug tourist destination." Walter Kemp, a spokesperson for the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, says decriminalization in Portugal "appears to be working." He adds that his office is putting more emphasis on improving health outcomes, such as reducing needle-borne infections, but that it does not explicitly support decriminalization, "because it smacks of legalization." Drug legalization removes all criminal penalties for producing, selling and using drugs; no country has tried it. In contrast, decriminalization, as practiced in Portugal, eliminates jail time for drug users but maintains criminal penalties for dealers. Spain and Italy have also decriminalized personal use of drugs and Mexico's president has proposed doing the same. . A spokesperson for the White House's Office of National Drug Control Policy declined to comment, citing the pending Senate confirmation of the office's new director, former Seattle Police Chief Gil Kerlikowske. The U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) and the U.S. Department of State's Bureau of International Narcotics and Law Enforcement Affairs also declined to comment on the report.  Razz_: Drug decriminalization for personal users doesn't mean the Government should support a drug users habits by providing free drugs, needles and a safe place to use. I'm all for drug decriminalization for personal users. I don't see the point of charging and convicting people who use drugs. I certainly don't think it helps them get off drugs.  alpossmar82: Violence and attacks on the young are often due to the drug crazed mind,the urban myth 'hippy girl babysitting high on LSD on Thanksgiving puts baby in oven, mistaking for the turkey", pandemic of heroin questions how an individual identifies sub culture and drug choice for this example.... (Edited by alpossmar82) Captain Canada: Give them for free triple the amount of drugs that he/she normally consumes,let them overdose on that shit,but have a law in place that would have the medical professionals prohibit of treatment on junkies that OD,they just occupying space and medical personnel in emergency rooms in hospitals,maybe some will learn and kick the habit or just die LiptonCambell: See Jack, I cannot disagree with your stance on decriminialization- i'm all for it, for all the reasons you stated. I'm against tax dollars being used to give drugs away. Decriminalize it- it'll make things safer, keep the profits out of the hands of criminals, help the economy, ect- but don't give people a free ride either....I think the "Give them free drugs so they don't steal" argument is ludicrous. You`re letting drug abusers hold society hostage, with no promises that they`ll keep their end of the bargain....like I said earlier- there are NO SUBSTANCES that we would permit that kind of attitude in modern society....we wouldn`t make booze deliver a federal program, free of charge, otherwise people would drive drunk, or let people skip out on taxes, otherwise they may not pay. If you`re going to commit another crime if you don`t get your way, I say do it- and get sent to prison for your actions. Because nothing justifies it. Captain Canada: Not asking for the addict to be good on giving them free drugs,what I am say is give them enough so they can over dose and vanish from society forever Mr Lipton when you state on keeping the profits out of the criminals hands are you implying that the goverment be in charge/control of drugs and its financial gains???? Goverment in control will only create another level of agencies to oversee the overseeing of those agencies Just look at our Liquor Control Board of Ontario and its monoply with the Ontario taxpayers and the lavish salaries that management and the powers given to their labour force (OPEU) LCBO and the Provincial Goverment holding the biggest purchasing powers of alcohol in the world and limiting the sales to the taxpayers making them pay millions on Sin Taxes eh (Post deleted by alpossmar82 ) (Post deleted by alpossmar82 ) Outbackjack: Like I have said before the U.K has been giving addicts drugs since 1955.Australia has a methadone program and needle exchange. I posted how Portugal has decriminalised the use of drugs as an example. I feel we need to be somewhere between decriminalisation and legalisation. This would make drugs safer as what goes in to drugs could be monitored and bad batches would become almost non existent. Lets put this in context. If one of my kids or your kids decides to try drugs it means they are not at the mercy of some organised criminal putting glass or rat sack or whatever cutting agent they put in to it at the expense of our childrens health. It's easy to sit back and say to hell with the lot of them and "I hope they die on it" but the next addict could be your son,daughter,brother or sister. McLipton. I have shown how the taxpayers would save billions and offset any cost by drug abusers subsidising addicts through the sale of narcotics with taxation. alpossmar82: Sex workers and welfare makes an interesting definition or the term considering tax and pharmacy medication opposed to non pharmaceuticals. Patients of government funded medication tend to commit and are well known most sexual crimes on the young, in some sense addicts tend to live active lives without govt handouts. Outbackjack: Trey Radel, Busted On Cocaine Charge, Voted For Drug Testing Food Stamp Recipients WASHINGTON -- In September, Rep. Trey Radel voted for Republican legislation that would allow states to make food stamp recipients pee in cups to prove they're not on drugs. In October, police busted the Florida Republican on a charge of cocaine possession. “It’s really interesting it came on the heels of Republicans voting on everyone who had access to food stamps get drug tested," House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) told BuzzFeed Tuesday. "It’s like, what?” The House over the summer approved an amendment by Rep. Richard Hudson (R-N.C.) that would let states drug test people on food stamps. The amendment passed by voice vote, meaning members' individual yeas and nays were not recorded. Radel later voted in favor of a broader food stamps bill that included Hudson's measure. In support of his drug testing legislation, Hudson cited the many state legislatures around the country that had considered similar requirements for other means-tested programs in recent years. "This is a clear and obvious problem in our communities as nearly 30 states have introduced legislation to drug test for welfare programs," Hudson said. "We have a moral obligation to equip the states with the tools they need to discourage the use of illegal drugs." Most of the state legislation was authored by Republicans. Oftentimes, state Democrats responded by suggesting lawmakers should be subject to tests as well. If the government's going to make sure recipients of taxpayer-funded benefits are clean, the argument went, then why not also make sure the recipients of taxpayer salaries are clean, too? In June, Rep. Jim McGovern (D-Mass.) made that very suggestion when he questioned why recipients of crop insurance and other government benefits weren't also targeted for drug tests like people on food stamps. "Why don't we drug test all the members of Congress here," McGovern said shortly before the drug-testing measure passed. "Force everybody to go urinate in a cup or see whether or not anybody is on drugs? Maybe that will explain why some of these amendments are coming up or why some of the votes are turning out the way they are." The fate of the food stamp drug testing provision is in the hands of a House-Senate conference committee hashing out differences between food stamp and farm legislation that passed the two chambers. It's got a chance. Last year, Congress passed a law to let states drug-test some unemployment insurance recipients. Radel apologized Tuesday for his cocaine bust and said he'd seek treatment. "I struggle with the disease of alcoholism, and this led to an extremely irresponsible choice," he said. dave3974: I would like to see the police and courts compelled by law to investigate and record the drug use of all persons convicted of violent crime, and for the results of this recording to be the subject of an inquiry into an apparent correlation. That is all. Anyone who says I have said anything else is making it up. They will. Please disregard it. All the following are known cannabis users: The mass killer on the beach in Sousse, Tunisia, Seifeddine Rezgui. Jared Loughner, culprit of the 2008 Tucson massacre in which six died and Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords was terribly wounded. Deyan Deyanov, killer (by beheading) of Jennifer Mills-Westley in Tenerife, Nicholas Salavador, killer, by decapitation, of Mrs Palmira Silva in London, Michael Adebolajo and Michael Adebowale killers of Lee Rigby, Cherif and Said Kouachi, and Ahmedy Coulibaly, culprits of the Charlie Hebdo Killings. Ibrahim and Saleh Abdeslam, and Omar Ismail Mostefai, culprits of the Bataclan killings in Paris last November, Martin Rouleau, killer of of an unnamed Canadian soldier (unnamed by the choice of his family) in St Jean-sur-Richelieu in October 2014, Michael Zehaf Bibeau, killer of another Canadian soldier, Nathan Cirillo in Ottawa, also in October 2014, Jonathan Bowling and Ashley Foster, killers of the Sheffield church organist Alan Greaves, beaten to death for no reason, Ayoub el-Khazzani who attempted a terrorist outrage on the Thalys train between Amsterdam and Paris I K R: I'd like to see all politicians and the law enforcers checked for drug use....they're the first ones that should be kept on the straight and narrow.
 abbernatht: I agree. They should start with the white house and all of its staff including the president and his family. No person should be excluded.Even the ones running for office should have to take one (Post deleted by alpossmar82 ) | Politics Chat Room 58 People Chatting Similar Conversations |