Wikileaks’ War Logs Highlight Global Intelligence Facade Of ‘War On Terror’ (Page 3)

FogofWar
FogofWar: "'How would you act if you arrested the man who blew your son up in front of you?'

i wouldnt send a gunship up to kill random reporters and cilvilains and rejoice in the gunner saying 'go on just grab the gun' like the wikileak vid before"


So now you are saying that the Afghan National Police are using gunships? It is comments like this that show you have a rage against a concept of what you THINK is going on Flashie.

Here's a little bit more info that your "sources" neglect to mention.

1. Taliban ARE CIVILIANS! Of course you see a video of a gunship killing random civilians; as the Taliban look the exact same as everyone else there.

2. The Taliban ARE REPORTERS! The Taliban set up video cameras all the time to record their work. They use this for:

a.) Propaganda
b.) Monitoring their success; similar to the game video football players watch.

To see civilians with cameras does not immediately mean they are not combatants; in fact, it is often a rather good example that they probably are.

Fact of the Day: Soldiers on patrol look for electrical wirings and camera equipment to give away positions of possible IEDs.


"i wouldnt round up some civilians and take photos of them performing mock sw% acts and ask a colleague to pose grinning thumbs up,"

...and when did Iraq become a province of Afghanistan Flashie????? Again; I was talking about the citizens of Afghanistan; not US soldiers in IRAQ!


"nor would i send cowardly drones via a ps2 controller to do the job for me and i certainly wouldnt advocate suicide bombings either."

PS2 controller???? Your view of the world is obviously tainted by your obsession with video games and internet surfing; comments like this show it. I know what you mean; but the fact that you reference a video game, a video game magazine publication, and constant youtube videos shows how out of touch with reality you are.

You say you are against violence; yet you call the usage of drones "cowardly". Those drones allow us to access extremely dangerous areas without risk to human life; yet you oppose this? Hypocrite!

You call drones cowardly; why don't we take a look at suicide bombers. They are the cowards.

By the way; drones have insanely higher accuracy rates than suicide bombers; and unlike those cowardly fz&~*; we do not target schoolchildren!


"no one in afghanistan or sadams iraq was threatening our freedom of speech."

So 9/11 was the new Woodstock? Come on Flashie. What about the freedom of speech in Afghanistan? Surely you are not stupid enough to say that the Taliban allowed Afghani's the freedoms we have.


"how on earth are any muslims (unless theyre invading on a grand scale, like the west done- which isnt possible) a threat to our freedom of speech fog?"

When they cut the tongues out of reporters; I would say that is taking away freedom of speech.


...and it all comes full tilt in this question from you Flashie:

"WHAT DO I NEED TO TWIST DISTORT OR HALF TRUTH AFTER WIKI DROPPED THIS TODAY?"

Perhaps it has to do with your constant stating of how MUSLIMS are not doing this. Of how MUSLIMS are not a threat. Of how you have mentioned your heritage as being Islamic. You see this whole war as a threat to Islam; which it is not. You seem to think that this war is an attempt to irradicate Islam from Earth; to destroy the teachings of the Quran; to "Westernize" the Middle East.

Well Flashie my friend; you are not alone. There are several groups and organizations that believe just this. They call themselves the Taliban, al Queda, The Ba'ath party; and they are the ones who are threatening the Islamic world; NOT US! We have helped an Islamic man take power in Afghanistan; at the vote of the Islamic community of Afghanistan. We have helped the people form an Islamic state of law; enforced by an Islamic military and police force respectively...yet still these insurgents attempt to murder them off for defying THEIR Islam....
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FogofWar
FogofWar: "yes thats what i meant its meaning soldier, there was muhajids in croatia sure.

i hope so too, someone has a right to protect their own soil?"

Then why is it so wrong that we give Afghanistan the right to protect theirs?


"fog i will read thru the source, its gone into meltdown overload servers or been taken off right now.

this is somthing that will take weeks to digest of course."

It will, because the founder of Wikileaks is being summoned by Obama; who has said these acts are criminal. It is very likely that she will be prosecuted for this; and rightfully so. I hope Obama throws the book at her for jeapordizing the lives of our soldiers overseas. Like I have said; to post information about cases of torture is fine; even if they are a fallacy; but to post vital tactical information, like the locations of our IED hits; and extent of damage is downright criminal and of total disregard to the safety of the men and women who so bravely risk their lives for her!


"for the record im disgusted whith what ive read today plus the f%wx$w$ flashbacks of that nasty little tramp in the photos humiliating those iraqis. im digusted that so many ppl think its ok to call the arab ppl rag heads and well its fzx@%$z atrocious."

Without passion; there would be no war Flashie. For the passion of hatred runs a long way. Again you state your disgust for the distaste of Islam from our actions; but do not blame our soldiers for that: blame our society for the lack of concern for others, and the "if it doesn't affect me, I don't care" attitude that causes such blindness. It's not our soldiers' fault; they fight alongside Islamic people everyday; it's the uneducated public who jump to conclusions; and that runs on both sides of the table Flashie: Do not sink to their level.

Another point on the topic of those photos. You do not know the events that led up to that. I am in no way defending what they did in Iraq; but you must also consider what they saw; who those people were; etc.

I say again; put yourself in the shoes of an Afghani; who had to watch his son murdered infront of him; how would you treat the man you beat your son to death if you were locked in a room alone with him?

Those Iraqi soldiers of Hussein's committed horrendous acts against the Kurdish people of Iraq. Hussein wanted to exterminate all Iraqis with Persian descent (like the Kurds); and so they were treated with the utmost disgust....it doesn't dismiss what happened in those photos; but it does show that hatred fuels more hatred. This is a topic in Clausewitz's On War.


"this should be an honourable war for anyone to agree with your stance on it fog, but its really not looking like that. without steve watson the report itself and apache video, photos etc."

Politics is not done by soldiers my friend; and wars are definately not fought by politicians. Remember the difference between the two.
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FogofWar
FogofWar: "yes thats what i meant its meaning soldier, there was muhajids in croatia sure.

i hope so too, someone has a right to protect their own soil?"

Then why is it so wrong that we give Afghanistan the right to protect theirs?


"fog i will read thru the source, its gone into meltdown overload servers or been taken off right now.

this is somthing that will take weeks to digest of course."

It will, because the founder of Wikileaks is being summoned by Obama; who has said these acts are criminal. It is very likely that she will be prosecuted for this; and rightfully so. I hope Obama throws the book at her for jeapordizing the lives of our soldiers overseas. Like I have said; to post information about cases of torture is fine; even if they are a fallacy; but to post vital tactical information, like the locations of our IED hits; and extent of damage is downright criminal and of total disregard to the safety of the men and women who so bravely risk their lives for her!


"for the record im disgusted whith what ive read today plus the f#$%~&^ flashbacks of that nasty little tramp in the photos humiliating those iraqis. im digusted that so many ppl think its ok to call the arab ppl rag heads and well its f^#y#y$ atrocious."

Without passion; there would be no war Flashie. For the passion of hatred runs a long way. Again you state your disgust for the distaste of Islam from our actions; but do not blame our soldiers for that: blame our society for the lack of concern for others, and the "if it doesn't affect me, I don't care" attitude that causes such blindness. It's not our soldiers' fault; they fight alongside Islamic people everyday; it's the uneducated public who jump to conclusions; and that runs on both sides of the table Flashie: Do not sink to their level.

Another point on the topic of those photos. You do not know the events that led up to that. I am in no way defending what they did in Iraq; but you must also consider what they saw; who those people were; etc.

I say again; put yourself in the shoes of an Afghani; who had to watch his son murdered infront of him; how would you treat the man you beat your son to death if you were locked in a room alone with him?

Those Iraqi soldiers of Hussein's committed horrendous acts against the Kurdish people of Iraq. Hussein wanted to exterminate all Iraqis with Persian descent (like the Kurds); and so they were treated with the utmost disgust....it doesn't dismiss what happened in those photos; but it does show that hatred fuels more hatred. This is a topic in Clausewitz's On War.


"this should be an honourable war for anyone to agree with your stance on it fog, but its really not looking like that. without steve watson the report itself and apache video, photos etc."

Politics is not done by soldiers my friend; and wars are definately not fought by politicians. Remember the difference between the two.
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FogofWar
FogofWar: "but fog im not trying to focus on jones, its the eport im on about as you said yourself thats the source, its inevitable now that this report will be picked up and written about by a wide spetrum of opinions."

Then please do not cloud it more with opinions of your own; or spread those opinions of others that have no relevence or proof. All this does is distort fact and create more conspiracies. This leads to nothing being accomplished.

"no one wants war except arms dealers, and a few others who gain from it."

That's a rather callous thing to say about people that you do not know. Did you know many of the people that work for the arms dealers are parents of men and women who serve? You really think they want war?

Just because people profited on the swine flu vaccine doesn't mean they wanted people to get the flu. It is no different. This is like saying that people who work for drug companies want people to get sick and die...this just isn't true.

"Arms dealers" like Lockheed and Boeing also make civilian aircraft; and in fact the 707, 717, 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, 787, etc; are ALL airliners built by Boeing. This company would be worth billions even without the military side of things. They have the resources to help our soldiers gain a tactical edge on the battlefield; and that is why they do it. They don't want war; rather the contrary....our weapons manufacturers are developing weapons of cutting edge to give us a tactical edge on the opponent; so that there is no chance of loss on the battlefield; meaning swifter and more decisive victories; thus meaning our soldiers are not in risk. So it can actually be said that our "Arms dealers" do what they do because they do NOT want war!


"afghanistan iraq iran pakistan any of these contries arent invading like hitler did. its pointless"

Stalin didn't invade us either; but he was still a threat. Genghis Khan didn't invade Europe, but was he not a threat? There are different styles of war; and they have different political agendas Flashie; it's not as black and white as they didn't invade us.

FYI, I would still say that the 9/11 attack classifies as an invasion!


"'You speak of taking a stand; I would suggest starting by boycotting wiki sights; and standing against them leaking information that can lead to your soldiers getting killed.'

if my country was invaded it'd be different. but its not."

Isn't this the "If it doesn't affect me, I don't care" mentality? Don't be a hypocrite Flashie; those men and women dying over there belong to your country; and many more are at risk because of some of those files leaked.


"the girl i know, thenurse told me one day shed witnessed an 11yr old have his throat cut. she wouldnt bullshit me. i asked her who'd do that to a kid. she said insurgent."

So how can you not see why we are there?


"before i couldnt get back on wiki i did notice them commenting that a lot more reports have been held back for the purpose of protecting western troops.

what a day. i hope good comes of this."

Actually, what was written on the wikileaks site was that the source had asked to withhold it; and it was originally withheld for that reason; but then she decided to leak it onto the site anyways.


"Flash...You should watch Glenn Beck. He's on the same path as Jones....and naming names of the conspiracy."

Glenn Beck also went on Fox and insulted Canadian heritage. He insulted our troops; he insulted our police, he insulted our citizens, and then continued to spew on about how pathetic Canada is for some 45 minutes. Glenn Beck is the most useless person on television, and nothing he says can hold any relevence in the eyes of an educated human. Glenn Beck is one of the reasons that Fox is viewed as a laughing stock. He insulted Canada; why would anyone listen to him? Glenn Beck is a disgrace to the United States!
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FogofWar
FogofWar: "- offering the listener and callers oppurtunity to debate both sides of an argument. therefore i think fog was a little premature in condemning alex last night."

And how many of the people that call into Alex Jones' show have experienced Afghanistan first hand do you think Flashie? Isn't it hard to form an opinion about an organization when you have no idea of its inner workings? I wasn't being premature to attack anything that was posted; what was posted was a fantasized version of reality; blowing out of proportion what wikileaks had reported.

I can tell you that having dealt with government organizations that work hand in hand with the military; there isn't a political motive to the CIA pulling this off to blackmail the army; there is, and always has been, however, political motive for the Taliban to tear their enemy apart from within his own ranks. This is a tactic fro Sun Tzu's the Art of War. It is the easiest way to defeat a larger and stronger enemy. Cut of the dragon's head; and the whole body will collapse!


"hes courageous and offers both sides to an argument and always urges us not to blindly belive hype but check out facts for ourselves."

Then why did he go and yell a bunch of bullshit about George W. Bush's brother running security at the WTC before checking the facts?


"these ppl arent patriots, theyre globalist elites and they hate the 'little people' and theyre doing a fine job of duping us to fight among ourselves."

I think there is others that are causing us to fight among ourselves Flashie; but I will keep my comments to myself.
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