Wikileaks’ War Logs Highlight Global Intelligence Facade Of ‘War On Terror’ (Page 2)

flashie
flashie: fog i will read thru the source, its gone into meltdown overload servers or been taken off right now.

this is somthing that will take weeks to digest of course.

for the record im disgusted whith what ive read today plus the fw^%*w& flashbacks of that nasty little tramp in the photos humiliating those iraqis. im digusted that so many ppl think its ok to call the arab ppl rag heads and well its fz~%*&~ atrocious.

but still, i have no pleasure whatsoever in seeing young men sent home maimed or dead either.

this should be an honourable war for anyone to agree with your stance on it fog, but its really not looking like that. without steve watson the report itself and apache video, photos etc.
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FogofWar
FogofWar: "and if you notice the top of my posts its a journo called steve watson who works for alex jones who wrote this not me."






You mean this Alex Jones??? The one who was yelling "facts" about 9/11 to the families, friends, and workers at the 9/11 site that were an outright lie?????

Alex Jones is a retard! End of story!


"im not assuming anything just presenting alternative opinions to ponder on.
im quite happy to research steve watsons claims further to see if its hype or not."

Stating ALLEGATIONS as factual reports is not presenting an alternative opinion; it is the very definition of propaganda.
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flashie
flashie: who wins? we wont, they never were a threat to our freedoms. who benefits except nutters and arms dealers mining companies?
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flashie
flashie: the infowars website run by jones who watson works for are the most viewed news site globally.

its nothing to do with personal opinions of jones really, we shouldnt vote for a politician just because he looks good but we do.

alex jones urges everyone not to belive him, but check out if hes telling truth for ourselves.

anyway today is about wikileaks not jones
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FogofWar
FogofWar: "youre not sold on the notion that elites are duping us all are you fog? it just isnt possible that all of this is a shady op for the new world order?"


The Roman Senate ruled for centuries as the world's largest democracy. When Julius Caesar seized power; and became a tyrant; breaking the laws of the Roman Empire to achieve this; he was killed by his own people. Brutus; best friend and close advocate said the final words to Julius Caesar as he stabbed him:

"This is what happens to tyrants!"


The Roman Empire became a cesspool for greed and corruption; and it caused the downfall of their society. If our government was lying to us about the wars we fight, then it would get out to the public; and the public would turn (look at Vietnam). Hate to break it to you Flashie; but we see the war everyday on the frontlines. If the government was lying about the war; we would be the first to see it...and you can rest assured that soldiers would not stand for that! We fight for freedom, NOT corruption.
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flashie
flashie: i love you for that fog no hwyx. you just nailed it. its all we can ask is you guys keep your heads on tight and dont be fooled. i said it before, in the end its up to you and the mujahids also to keep it civilised.

thats enough. i gotta sleep now 230am here.

peace
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FogofWar
FogofWar: "if not then what is it? a labratory of death for psychopaths? a game? the report said the cover ups came from the ground up, its not good news and my mind keeps flashing the pics of that american woman who had the arab guy on a lead like a dog and all those other ugly pics that leaked years ago. wtf is going on over there.. now we know."


You are mixing reports of Iraq with Afghanistan Flashie. Totally different war; totally different people; totally different Rules of Engagement.

Yes, cases of war crimes do happen; hell they happened in WWII against Nazis; but the actions of one does not condemn the actions of all!

You want a story about a war crime. There is a Canadian soldier right now on trial for a war crime. He is being charged with murder for shooting an unarmed civilian. He was with the Afghan National Army; and came under fire by Taliban insurgents. The insurgent was hit; and was fatally injured; there was no saving his life. Legally, he was to administer first aid; but the man was beyond saving; and the ANA said leave him to die; they were moving out. Instead of letting the man suffer in agony for god knows how long; he shot him; ending his suffering. For this he is being charged as using deadly force beyond the legal necessity to. Other men have been charged with war crimes for saving the lives of civilians. There is far more politics to war than you could ever imagine; and unless you are there to witness EXACTLY what happened; you cannot understand even half the story. You see the videos of mistreatment towards Taliban; but have you ever seen the photos of Taliban insurgents dragging civilian reporters through the streets; beaten half dead; and leaving a trail of blood through the street? Have you seen the bodies of these reporters when the Taliban leaves them to rot on the roadside? Have you had to pick up the severed limb of your 6 year old child after a smiling insurgent used her as a bomb?

"remember months ago when i posted about female soldiers getting raped by males queueing for the toilets on u.s. bases? and you said it was nonsense but Jack chimed in what id posted was credible?"

Actually I do not. Yes, it happens; and those men are prosecuted for it. They pay; big time. I have seen men charged for sexual harrassment and abuse....but there is two sides to those stories as well. There was a young woman in St. Jean, Quebec. She was in Basic Training there; and had been harrassing a fellow male comrade that she disliked. Eventually, she pressed charges on him for harrassment; and sexual assault. In this case; it turned out to be proven that it was her; and she was charged for it. There have been several cases of women exploiting the fact that military courts are guilty until proven innocent. They claim rape, or sexual harassment when it never occurred, and sadly, in few cases; it worked.


"it was only days ago david and others were talking about islam being the worlds most evil religion and why dont muslims speak out against it.

well, us westerners have that freedom apparently so maybe we should practise what we preach and lead by example"

Speak out against evil all you want Flashie; but find out the truth first before diving on ALLEGATIONS, and using known liars and people who have been found falsifying information as sources. Alex Jones has posted and commented on many "facts" that have ZERO basis in fact. He is a liar, a manipulator, and is brainwashing the masses that follow him to turn on their government for his own sense of power.


You want to make a stand Flashie; go to Afghanistan yourself; take a hammer and some nails; help rebuild the nation....see for yourself what is really going on outside the internet!
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FogofWar
FogofWar: "i love you for that fog no hy&w. you just nailed it. its all we can ask is you guys keep your heads on tight and dont be fooled. i said it before, in the end its up to you and the mujahids also to keep it civilised."


...and thanks to those reports being leaked; there will unfortunately be far more of us that will not have heads when we return from Afghanistan. You can thank wikileaks for being the direct cause in that.

You speak of taking a stand; I would suggest starting by boycotting wiki sights; and standing against them leaking information that can lead to your soldiers getting killed.

Telling people of alleged cases of torture and abuse is one thing; but posting tactical information that gives our enemy our position and weaknesses is downright dispicable!
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flashie
flashie: i almost did about 7 years ago. i was going to become a pioneer, glad i didnt since i found out theyre very expendable as they pretty much fill up holes on runways. i have a friend whos a field nurse, shes a sergent now, she inspired me after her dad and brother died out there.

but fog im not trying to focus on jones, its the eport im on about as you said yourself thats the source, its inevitable now that this report will be picked up and written about by a wide spetrum of opinions.

if i have the time to read and fully understand it ill be surprised as youd need a brain and time like noam chomskys got to get really scholastic on it.

again, jones says himself dont take my word for it find out yourself. makes sense.

and again this report is fresh today its going to take a while for ppl to get their heads around it
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flashie
flashie: i dont want to be the only one questioning things. ive got alot of stuff to do. thats why i come here to hopefully talk to normal folk in language we mutaually understand and put the world to rights.

the internet is a marvellous thing, proven by the fact that cass sunstein wants to censor it.

no one wants war except arms dealers, and a few others who gain from it. its alot of sacrifice just to make some guy and his alreay wealthy family even more wealthy.

afghanistan iraq iran pakistan any of these contries arent invading like hitler did. its pointless
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flashie
flashie: 'You speak of taking a stand; I would suggest starting by boycotting wiki sights; and standing against them leaking information that can lead to your soldiers getting killed.'

if my country was invaded it'd be different. but its not.
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flashie
flashie: the girl i know, thenurse told me one day shed witnessed an 11yr old have his throat cut. she wouldnt bullshit me. i asked her who'd do that to a kid. she said insurgent.

i wanted to join, not to shoot ppl like doug stanhope talks about, although of course he makes a good point saying war should be voluntary so psychos can cull each other. but its not when civillians are being maimed and murdered on both sides.

so i wanted to join, id like to think id slot someone who cut a childs throat in that situation. im glad im not, and dont want you to be or a mujahid for that matter in that situation. it sucks.

i was too old and could only be a chef or driver postie whatever royal logistics corp. didnt fancy being a driver and have to depend on scared shitless teens protecting me. also the recruitment guy said coz im older the young ones would look to me to be leader, didnt fancy that either
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flashie
flashie: then he asked me if i knew any catholics or muslims.

no shit.
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flashie
flashie: before i couldnt get back on wiki i did notice them commenting that a lot more reports have been held back for the purpose of protecting western troops.

what a day. i hope good comes of this.
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davidk14
davidk14: Flash...You should watch Glenn Beck. He's on the same path as Jones....and naming names of the conspiracy.
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flashie
flashie: i think his track record is slightly more patchy tho isnt it? wasnt he a drug addict or somthing scandalous?
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davidk14
davidk14: He's a recovering alcoholic 15 years. Nothing to do with it. You should watch him if you can.
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franklin1950
franklin1950: why does obama , the democrates , progressives , liberals hate and fear glen beck and fox??
follow becks' chalk board arrows .
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davidk14
davidk14: Frankin, I agree. They fear they will be exposed as the progessive dogs tht they are.
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flashie
flashie: tbh im not well versed in beckology. im a european so i dont absorb what goes on over the pond too much. i just heard alex jones' comments regarding him looking burnt out, yes you reminded me hes rec alch and on prozac or some shit.

i tend to find more than enough info listening to jones' show daily. i was pleasantly surprised hearing mondays show today (7.26), and jones began by saying his gut feeling regarding wikileaks is a good one but there are critics claiming wikileaks have other motives perhaps. talk about in fighting in upper echelons of army vs cia that perhaps cia are using this report to try and burn the army, to further their hady agenda. its not even so much all about alex's views per se, but the guests he brings on the show - offering the listener and callers oppurtunity to debate both sides of an argument. therefore i think fog was a little premature in condemning alex last night.

i dont understand these labels that are common in american politricks such as progressive etc im sure english definitions of these words must differ so i cant comment much. myself im a follower of the simple notion a la bill hicks... left wing right wing its all bollocks.

be a patriot. simple.

jones was bigging up rush lim of all ppl today saying he has said a gang of criminals have hijacked the american gov. good news as rush has millions of listeners.

and jones stated hes all for trying to prevent his american economy from being trashed, and to stop a ww3 in iran etc. i cant help but like the guy, hes courageous and offers both sides to an argument and always urges us not to blindly belive hype but check out facts for ourselves. i ahve a great deal of time for the guy.

is beck a neo con who turned coat?
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flashie
flashie: theres blue bloods (no lizard) for want of a better word dictating to the govs what to do and they hate the american ppl. hence ruined economics by design and global war on freedoms. a big dirty corrupt racket going on. ppl being brainwashed and dumbed down so they dont even realise wtf's going on.

its not the us military or gov or ppls fault, needless to say its not arabs or islams fault either although the arabs have some blue bloods in their camp.

these ppl arent patriots, theyre globalist elites and they hate the 'little people' and theyre doing a fine job of duping us to fight among ourselves.

apparently
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flashie
flashie: prince phillip has been quoted saying he would like to be reincarnated as deadly anti human virus to reduce population, and your john holdren wrote about reducing global population by 80percent in his book ecoscience, under the guise of 'saving the planet' which has duped so mant well meaning ppl heightened by al gore who bizarrely said,

'It isn't pollution that's harming the environment. It's the impurities in our air and water that are doing it.'

and alot of suckers on here are zealously following this retard, while he flies about in private jets no doubt.

its as crazy as the mayans human sacrificing ppl for idols. its evil. and imagine if you were aqlive in mayan times and said 'youre all mad' theyd lock you up or eat you.

ok im having a night off. enjoy your day/eves people. peace be with you

chris
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chronology
chronology: Franklin. The Democrats do not 'fear' Fox, what they seem to be exasperated with is the babbling of Talkradio which is filling the heads of uninformed listeners with catchy soundbites. People are voting on important issues with judgments based on half thought out gibberish catchphrases they pick up from callers to Stations with blatantly Right Wing Agendas. Radio Stations by the way, who do not give a damn if American children go to bed hungry, or American Moms do not have enough houskeeping money for food. All these Stations care about is Gun Rights and low Taxes. The last election in the U.S. won the respect of people all over the world as Americans demonstrated they can see through the B.S. and make informed decisions. Let's hope the American people do the same in November.
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FogofWar
FogofWar: "who wins? we wont, they never were a threat to our freedoms."

Our goal is not to defeat the Taliban in the concept of previous wars. Why is that so difficult for you people to understand? I can tell you why; because you have never studied war in it's context; instead you presume to know what it is; without ever having experienced it or studied it in it's true form. If you have never read the works of Karl von Clausewitz; On War, then you cannot understand how modern warfare came about; how we fight it; and the model of which it is fought.

To "defeat" the Taliban; all that must be accomplished is to disarm them. This is to put them in a position which is more disadvantageous than the sacrifice required of them. This is pretty easy in theory to accomplish: We must train the Afghan National Army and Afghan National Police to be able to deal with the threat, and contain it...and in this we would be victorious; and able to withdraw our troops and come home. Of course; there is far more to the picture than just this; and the very actions of those posting reports on wikileaks; and protestors tearing their nation apart at home play a major factor in all of this.

"who benefits except nutters and arms dealers mining companies?"

I'd say the children who can safely play in the streets again; the farmers who aren't being murdered....the reporters who would have been dragged through the streets before being beaten to death; and all the people in Afghanistan who want to vote without being shot in the head. I would say many people benefit Flashie. Why can you put a price on their freedom when you refuse to put one on your own?


"the infowars website run by jones who watson works for are the most viewed news site globally."

And still not the source of this story. Try going directly to the source; not the second hand source.


"its nothing to do with personal opinions of jones really, we shouldnt vote for a politician just because he looks good but we do."

I don't. I vote for politicians that I know will make a difference in what I want them to....if you vote for politicians based on looks; then you are the problem in the world; not the government. You cannot blame the government for the people's actions Flashie.


"alex jones urges everyone not to belive him, but check out if hes telling truth for ourselves."

And in that video you see an example of him NOT telling the truth. Alex Jones is a conspirator that twists stories in order to raise conspiracies.


"anyway today is about wikileaks not jones"

"and if you notice the top of my posts its a journo called steve watson who works for alex jones who wrote this not me."

Then why is your story that of Alex Jones and not of wikileaks? Perhaps you would do better to seek the story from its original source; and not what others have told you is what the original source said.
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FogofWar
FogofWar: "WHAT DO I NEED TO TWIST DISTORT OR HALF TRUTH AFTER WIKI DROPPED THIS TODAY? ITS FROM THE HORSES MOUTH, LIKE THE PHOTOS OF IRAQIS BEING HUMILIATED AND TORTURED. I DONT HAVE TO EXPLAIN ANYTHING, THE ARMY IS DOING A GOOD ENOUGH JOB NO?"


So then you have confirmed evidence of these reports coming from secret files yes? You can personally attest to this fact? You can confirm beyond a doubt that the Taliban and al Queda were formed by the United States Government? Apparently you do have a need to twist, distort and tell half truths; the files from wikileaks said none of that.

So based on photos of something that you were not there for you can tell the WHOLE story? Again, the photos from Iraq mean nothing: Iraq IS NOT Afghanistan. The Rules of Engagement (which are not accessible to the civilian world, sorry Flashie) clearly define the wars as different....different laws, different methods. What the US did in Iraq has NO relevance in Afghanistan.

But since you bring up photos; I too have seen photos of "mistreatment". In the movie "Why We Fight", he shows soldiers "abusing" people in Afghanistan, mixed with footage from Iraq. The photos from Afghanistan are from in a checkpoint; in which ALL personnel crossing (white, Middle Eastern; it doesn't matter) are searched for weapons (since they are entering a weapon's free zone). When a person is found in possession of concealed weapons; they are forced to the ground, and searched. Put yourself there Flashie; if a person had a weapon on him in a weapon's free zone; wouldn't you want to keep him under control too? Seems so clear from 10,000 miles in the safe zone doesn't it? This isn't a movie Flashie; this is real life; with real hostile people threatening REAL soldiers and REAL civilians. Force is NEEDED to control the situation....and a photo cannot speak for the whole story when it only shows a glimpse of it.

Let's stick to reality; keep the photos you saw of Iraq to the topic of Iraq. I'm not going to label you as a criminal because of the violent protests and assault committed by other anti-war persons.


"please man, youre a reasonable dude, dont jump into this, im actually interested in what you think about the report generally not after a war"


I'm not "jumping" into it Flashie; on the contrary; I have looked into it; and read the page from wikileaks itself; I am telling you the "source" of these reports contradicts what your "report" states.


"im against any illegal violence fog. whether its u.s. invading middle east or al qaeda or mossad killing civilians."

Sometimes you cannot stand against them both Flashie. It is a sad reality. I suggest that you read through the workings of Karl von Clausewitz; in fact; I will do you one better and post on here, a new topic which will be the first chapter of book 1; outlining what war is. The version I have is not a civilian one, but from the Infantry Journal Press. It is the very book that is what all modern warfare and militaries worldwide are based upon. Only if you read this can you truly understand what causes us to act the way we do in war. There are reasons for dealing with people we do not like, nor trust (such as Stalin in WWII); and this is because war, as Clausewitz put it; is broken down into policy; and action. Policy is what pushes us to war; but without war, there would be no survival. It is essential for our continued existence; and in several cases; it is required to stop tyrants from mass murdering people based on a different translation of the Quran. In order to stop these organizations killing innocent civilians; we had to invade them; and in doing so, we helped their original democratic government regain control. I agree, two wrongs do not make a right; and the act of committing violence upon another is a terrible act; be thankful there are others out there that are willing to carry that burden so that you do not have to.
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