Gaza News update. (Page 5)

franklin1950
franklin1950: it is entertaining to watch a forum discussion inevitably devolve into an adolecent circle jerk.
boy will be boys
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davidk14
davidk14: .

Chrono said: Mr David, the only person out of touch with reality is you, 'Israel still "allows" water and power into Gaza', who the hell gives Israel the Right to dictate to the people of Gaza what they eat, drink and when they have electricity?

Outback said: Nothing of importance…just dribble.

David said: As usual, Outback like Chrono have nothing of importance to offer except non-historic dribble. So once again, regarding Chrono’s comment.

From 1949 to 1967 Egypt had control of the Gaza and the Palestinians living there. Because of Egypt’s poor economy (latest report reveals over 50% of the population earns less than $2 per day), they only provided the minimal essential basic services to Gaza for those years. Poverty was out of control.

From 1967 thru 2005 while the Israelis were in control (38 years), they installed a reasonable infrastructure not only for the 1600+ Israeli families in 21 settlements but also the entire Gaza Strip. During those 38 years, Israel had no idea that they were going to return the entire Gaza to the Palestinian Authority.

Once Israeli’s evacuated the 21 settlements from the Gaza in 2005, they left the infrastructure in place. Did they have to? Nope. They knew the “Palestinian People” in Gaza would have incredible hardships if they did.

During the first and second infatada when the PLO and Hamas were attacking Israel, did Israel cut off all power, water and humanitarian supplies to the “Palestinian People”? Nope. Could they have or should they have? Sure. Did they…no they didn’t.

Here’s a country, Israel, under attack, fighting for their very existence, and they still provided the “Palestinian People” with water, food and humanitarian supplies. Israel allows other aid by sea but only after the ships dock either in Israel or Egypt so that they can be inspected for weapons. Doesn’t sound like the Israelis are the bad guy here now does it. And by the way, Egypt also has a blockade of Gaza since they do not support the terrorist organization Hamas. You don’t seem to have issues with that since you’ve never addressed that situation.

That’s history and the facts. Israel is not at war with the “Palestinian People”, they are at war with the terrorist organization “Hamas”.

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chronology
chronology: 'Provide the Palastinian people with water, food, etc'. Mr David, your head is so far up your backside it must be years since you have seen daylight.
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davidk14
davidk14: .

Chrono,

A very wise man once said, "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."

We are at that point where you have nothing to say but mean and unwarrented comments. You provide no facts, no research, nothing. Why? Because you won't accept the fact that what you thought was the truth were actually lies and Islamic propaganda which was told to you.

When you saw the vid's of the Gaza shopping mall opening a few months ago and recently the new Gaza beach resorts initial investments ($20 million dollars invested by Palistinians), I think you started to get the message. Combined investments reached approximately $50 million dollars.

If life was so f~x#wx up in Gaza, why wouldn't they invest the money, TENS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS into the infrastructure such as water, power, hospitals, food, and schools to help their own people?

A few possibilities...One, they just don't give a rats ass about according to your statements, their fellow Palistinians "suffering" and watching the children "starving" or two, why should they, the UN and Israelis are already providing the basic's. So which one do you think? You tell me.


And Outback...unless you have anything "intelligent" to say, just shut up.


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Outbackjack
Outbackjack: I have wasted enough time with you David trying to teach you about the situation in Palestine.You just spam the threads with one sided copy and pasted rubbish.

You arent intelligent enough to come up with your own thoughts and opinions except hiding behind the holocaust.
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davidk14
davidk14: .

Outback said: I have wasted enough time with you David trying to teach you about the situation in Palestine. You just spam the threads with one sided copy and pasted rubbish. You aren’t intelligent enough to come up with your own thoughts and opinions except hiding behind the holocaust.

David said: Teach me what? What evidence or reference materials have you provided other than from unreliable, unverifiable propaganda sources? All you have ever provided is “one sided” propaganda. I’ve asked you dozens of times to provide your sources but you only provide some excuse or come up with some c&@& and bull story.

The definition of spam is: …the abuse of electronic messaging systems to send unsolicited bulk messages indiscriminately. So your use of the word is totally incorrect.

You also don’t like the idea of anyone quoting sources which can be easily verified. You call that “copy and paste rubbish”. Many if not most of my posts ‘are’ my thoughts, beliefs and opinions based on and supported by documented historical factual information from reliable sources.

And regarding hiding behind the holocaust, I have only one thing to say, and I quote documented facts….never again.

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chronology
chronology: Mr David, 'teach me what....' unbelievable. The folks from Washington must have the patience of St Francis of Assisi as they try and get you to negotiate.
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davidk14
davidk14: .

Chrono…I have plenty to learn…It’s just that you and Outback have taught me what?

And you’d be surprised, if I were the negotiator, there would have been a two state solution already with Israel getting it’s security needs addressed and the Palestinians a homeland with plenty of land.

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Outbackjack
Outbackjack: "All you have ever provided is “one sided” propaganda."

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!

May you forever revel in irony David.
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davidk14
davidk14: Outback, Go to the political forum : Israel / Palestinians / Sam and read my last post which is from an AP publication.

Propaganda you say...I do not think so.
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Outbackjack
Outbackjack: What are you getting at?

First of all you are very selective with your history lesson.
Its funny how you never mention the 1890s- 1940s.

I guess with your one sidedness you couldnt possibly acknowledge the Israeli terrorists who terrorised Palestine and were ultimately responsible for the Exodus?

I also dont know what you are trying to acheive by showing me an old AP news article telling how Egypt tried to dictate the terms of how the Palestinians must act.

Again the irony is lost on you.
Your country,the U.S,waxes lyrical about freedom but has no problems with Egypt excluding a democratically elected government,Hamas,from being in governmnet.

Hamas has its faults but when the U.S preaches about democracy in the Middle east we know that they are just hollow words.
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davidk14
davidk14: .

Outback said: First of all you are very selective with your history lesson. It’s funny how you never mention the 1890s- 1940s.

David said: Perhaps we should start back 2500 BC and look at ancient Israel and walk through 4500 years of Middle Eastern history. We can, but we will be here for months to get to the 1800’s. Israel was created in 1948 after most of Judaism was wiped off the face of this planet. That is a good starting point.

Outback said: I guess with your one sidedness you couldn’t possibly acknowledge the Israeli terrorists who terrorized Palestine and were ultimately responsible for the Exodus?

David said: In the 1940’s, you of course know that the Arab countries, including of course the Arabs living in the Palestinian Territories were allies with the Nazi and supported their doctrine of sharing world supremacy…don’t you? You realize that the name Persia was changed to Iran in the mid 1940’s which means…Arian…but you knew that. The Jews were fighting the same Arabs in the late 1940’s that supported the Nazi’s and the extermination of Jews in the concentration camps. But then you knew that too. Regarding the British…they were just getting in the way and…the UN agreed and presto…Israel is created. Simplistic I know, but, so are you so I had to keep it simple for you. You are very welcome.

Outback said: I also don’t know what you are trying to achieve by showing me an old AP news article telling how Egypt tried to dictate the terms of how the Palestinians must act.

David said: Dictate? Hey…they just don’t want a terrorist organization on their border. You want Hamas on your border? I think not. If you do, give them an invite for immigration. They can set up right next to you in the desert. Fun times a-commin. But seriously, Egypt understands that peace is good for everyone. Everyone but you realizes that Hamas is the organization standing in the way of peace for the whole region.

Outback said: Again the irony is lost on you. Your country, the U.S, waxes lyrical about freedom but has no problems with Egypt excluding a democratically elected government, Hamas, from being in government. Hamas has its faults but when the U.S preaches about democracy in the Middle east we know that they are just hollow words.

David said: Hamas has a few faults? Like practicing genocide? It’s in the Hamas Charter to exterminate the Jews. That’s a few faults? You just don’t want to face the facts. So if people and governments don’t side with a group of people that vote into power an organization who would practice genocide that it’s just “hollow words” of US doctrine?? Are you out of your mind???? You’re kidding right???

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Outbackjack
Outbackjack: "Israel was created in 1948 after most of Judaism was wiped off the face of this planet. That is a good starting point."

"David said: In the 1940’s, you of course know that the Arab countries, including of course the Arabs living in the Palestinian Territories were allies with the Nazi and supported their doctrine of sharing world supremacy…don’t you? You realize that the name Persia was changed to Iran in the mid 1940’s which means…Arian…but you knew that. The Jews were fighting the same Arabs in the late 1940’s that supported the Nazi’s and the extermination of Jews in the concentration camps. But then you knew that too. Regarding the British…they were just getting in the way and…the UN agreed and presto…Israel is created. Simplistic I know, but, so are you so I had to keep it simple for you. You are very welcome."

Still no mention of the Exodus or Israeli terrorism.
The 1890s is a great place to start as that marks the rise of radical Zionism.

Some of the arab Nationalists did back the German Nazis.However misguided they were they were sick of British/French imperialism ruling their land.The Ottomans had gone and now there were a new set of rulers.

SO the British were just getting in the way?
In the way of what?

More bloodshed?

"David said: Dictate? Hey…they just don’t want a terrorist organization on their border. You want Hamas on your border? I think not. If you do, give them an invite for immigration. They can set up right next to you in the desert. Fun times a-commin. But seriously, Egypt understands that peace is good for everyone. Everyone but you realizes that Hamas is the organization standing in the way of peace for the whole region."

Hamas this,Hama that

You know that everyone said the same about the I.R.A/Sinn Fein.
Noone ever thought there could be a serious peace in Northern Ireland but there was.The political wing,Sinn Fein, found a way that eventually disarmed the paramilitary wing.The same will hopefully happen with Hamas.
There are political elements in Hamas who will consider recognising Israel.
But you dont want to acknowledge that.
Far easier to complain about how hard done by Israel is rather than looking at the genuine peacemakers on both sides who want to resolve this.

"David said: Hamas has a few faults? Like practicing genocide? It’s in the Hamas Charter to exterminate the Jews. That’s a few faults? You just don’t want to face the facts. So if people and governments don’t side with a group of people that vote into power an organization who would practice genocide that it’s just “hollow words” of US doctrine?? Are you out of your mind???? You’re kidding right???"

I notice that you added the word "few" to my sentence in regards to faults with Hamas.

Its very sad David when you have to make things up to try and make a weak point.

Support a group of people who vote into power a Government that practises genocide???

That statement could be applied to Israel.
Afterall the U.S actually gives them more than $5 billion in military aid each year alone.
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davidk14
davidk14: .
Outback wants you to believe: After all the U.S actually gives them more than $5 billion in military aid each year alone.

David said: Before you get on a soap box about facts, you need to first look up some.


According to the United States Congressional Research Service…

“For FY2010, the Obama Administration requested $2.775 billion in FMF to Israel. Congress
Provided $555 million of Israel's total FY2010 FMF appropriation in P.L. 111-32, the FY2009
Supplemental Appropriations Act. The remaining funds are contained in H.R. 3081 and S. 1434,
the House and Senate’s FY2010 Foreign Operations Appropriations bills respectively, which
await further action in both chambers.”
So you need to get your facts right instead of just dreaming up stuff off the top of your head.


U.S. Aid to Egypt By Matthew Rothschild, June 15, 2010

Pop quiz: Which country, over the last 30 years, has received the second biggest amount of U.S. foreign aid?

If you said Egypt, you should move to the head of the class.
Other than Israel, it’s been at the top of the list, hauling in $2 billion a year, on average.



THIS IS EGYPT Evan Hill | May 15, 2010 4:18 PM

As U.S. policymakers debate whether to hand Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak a "stunningly deferential," nearly strings-free endowment to be used over the next five to ten years -- an endowment that Cairo has proposed should reach a whopping $4 billion.


So, Egypt and Israel get about the exact same amount of US aid per year, nowhere near the $5 billion you dreamed up.


Outaback said: There are political elements in Hamas who will consider recognizing Israel.

David Said: Same old outback. Again providing no proof or evidence. There is nothing I can find that supports your claim. The only thing I can find on Hamas is their genocidal Charter.

Outback said: Support a group of people who vote into power a Government that practices genocide??? That statement could be applied to Israel.
David said: Israel has never attacked a neighbor for the sole purpose of gaining land or to commit genocide. However, the UN report on the 2009 Israeli incursion said:

“The Mission found that the repeated acts of firing rockets and mortars into Southern Israel by Palestinian armed groups from the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip constituted war crimes that may amount to crimes against humanity.”

Israel went into Gaza to defend its right to exist.

Hamas put civilian men, women and children into harm’s way for media purposes is also a crime against humanity.

War sucks! The best way to win a war is not to fight one. There is always collateral damage in war….always…and that’s why war is not a solution.

Hamas needs to learn this, to grow up, accept Israel's right to exist, and get a chair at the table. Otherwise, any future blood spilled on either side will be Hamas's responsibility. But of course, you probably will blame Israel.


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Outbackjack
Outbackjack: Theres nothing wrong with my figures.
Its actually a very conservative estimate when you take into account all the private donations and loan guarantees from the U.S.

Again no mention of the Israeli terrorism.

When I am really really bored I will give you a history lesson on Palestine.

In the meantime,some of us have employment to do and actually also have a life.
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davidk14
davidk14: .

Outback,

Before you start in on me about your version of “Palestinian History”, hold off for awhile. I’m going to do some further research and one day soon, we can get back together on this specific subject since Palestinian and Jewish history are highly intertwined.

Native American Indian history and European history clashed within a very short timeline, but these two Middle Eastern cultures have lived in very close proximity with one another for a very, very long time.


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Outbackjack
Outbackjack: I look forward to it.

I am well aware that a quarter of a million Jewish people lived in Palestine from the end of the Roman era right through until the 19th Century.
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chronology
chronology: U.S. Peace efforts are moving ahead as today, (Sep 1 2010) Ms Hillary Clinton Secretary of State and President Obama welcome Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Palestinian Leader Mahmoud Abbas to Washington for Peace Talks. Skeptics are already saying there is no chance for any Peace Agreement between the two sides. There is a 500 page list of appendices that both sides agree need to be singed before any lasting Peace can be achieved; 'no way will either side sign that document today' say insiders. But U.S. Peace Envoy Mr George Mitchell says all sides must continue with efforts to achieve a lasting peaceful agreement; 'it is too important to just give up on' says Mr Mitchell.
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davidk14
davidk14: .

Chrono,

The Israeli's and the Palestinian Authority do have a lot of work to do. If Hamas continues to kill inocent men and women, the peace that we all want will not come to pass. The following from the AP:

Palestinian Kills 4 Israelis on Eve of Peace Talks
Published August 31, 2010
| Associated Press


JERUSALEM -- A Palestinian gunman opened fire Tuesday on an Israeli vehicle in the West Bank and killed four passengers on the eve of a new round of Mideast peace talks in Washington. The Islamic militant group Hamas praised the shooting.



A total of seven children were orphaned by the attack, according to the reports.



The Islamic militant group Hamas took responsibility for the shooting and vowed that more attacks would follow.

About 3,000 Palestinians joined a rally in Gaza to celebrate the attack.


"The Qassam Brigades announces its full responsibility for the heroic operation in Hebron," Hamas military wing spokesman Abu Obeida told The Associated Press.

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chronology
chronology: Mr David. First, our sympathy and respect to the Jewish famillies berieved yesterday, you said this would happen and it did. But remember 3000 people may have demonstrated in Gaza supporting the attack, but 1.270.000 other people in Gaza never celebrated the attack.
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davidk14
davidk14: The rest were on vacation.

Yes, you are correct Chrono. A very small number.
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davidk14
davidk14: And, the Palistenian Authority condemned the attack. A good sign.

However, this senario has happened numberous times before and as the peace negotiations move forward, more attacks will occur and Israel will eventually respond and will have every right to protect its citizens.
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chronology
chronology: President Obama and Secretary of State Ms Hillary Clinton yesterday gave a warm American welcome to Mr Benjamin Netanyahu and Mr Mahmoud Abbas as they met at the White House for formal face to face Peace talks. The fact that Washington has restarted the face to face talks between the two Groups involved in the violent dispute is seen as a success in itself for the Americans, but there also seems little likelihood of either Palestinians or Israelis backing down from Flash-point issues. One of the most 'Hot Button' issues is said to be the ongoing development of Jerusalem. Palestinians are convinced Israel is engaged in a complex and long drawn out plot to take over the City by placing Jewish residents in strategic locations. This 'Chess Board' like maneuver by Israel will eventually give Jews total control over the City, which along with St Peters Square in Rome must be the most emotionally sacred ground in the world to Billions of people world wide. The status of Jerusalem along with Israeli Settlements and Palastinian Human Rights issues make for a busy week in Washington.
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davidk14
davidk14: .

If the PA can bring Hamas to the table in good faith, I think Israel will work with the PA on Jerusalem. Isreal has given up strategic lands for peace before, I think they will again. (Rook to knight 3)

Unfortunately for the road to peace in the region to be clear, without Hamas recognizing Israel, the peace deal is dead.

Yes, it's going to be the ultimate chess match in history.

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chronology
chronology: Guys, big thumbs up to Washington for their efforts and for being such generous hosts. And yes Mr David, we can only cross our fingers and wait for News interviews from the White House.
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