Truth vs. (Page 2)

IamEggman: David,
Most of the people McCarthy and Hoover went after either joined the communist party or attended meetings back in the 1930's.
The two main reasons for them taking an interest in communism were the depression and the rise of fascism. And many fought in WW2. Very few remained communist. That didn't stop McCarthy and Hoover.
The reason so many refused to answer the questions in those hearings was simply because they didn't want to implicate anyone.

Tell me, how many books have you read about the House of Un-American Activities? And, apart from Fox, where do you get your news from?

Jack is right, all countries spy on each other. The U.K and the U.S spy on each other all the time.

davidk14: Outback, Yes everyone spies on everyone else. Yes even Israel spies on the US. However, planting sleeper cells to actively try to overthrow the US government in the 1950’s is what has come to the surface after 50 years of being locked in a safe. We can’t discuss this until you folks read the book that I posted earlier. Why? All information you heard and read about what happened in the 1950’s will be shattered. And I continue to try to impress onto you that the media is what drives what color you like today or the food you will buy tomorrow. The media created the firestorm.

You ask besides FOX? I go to the source whenever I can. I even go to the writer of the post. Most the following is where I have been led:

AOL.News
Wall Street Journal (WSJ)
Associated Press (AP)
Bloomberg
CNN
Global Information Network (GIN)
Reuters
United Press International (UPI)
Israeli News Services (INS)
Albawaba News Service
Al Jazerra

There are other news sources I go to depending on what is being written. If it was written in Australia, I research Australia. If it’s in Jordan, I go to Jordan. That is why I ask for your reference materials. Not so much to fact check, but to get a deeper understanding of what you are communicating. I dont know everything or pretend that I do. The more information you can review, the better one can make a determination.

chronology: @ Mr Eggman. 'The U.S. and Britain Spy on each other'? that's news. Can you give any examples? Philby was working for Moscow not London. The last time British Spies worked in the U.S. was just before W.W.2. Not many Americans realise that Flemming's James Bond is actually based on British operations against American Nazi Big Business supporters in the U.S. At the time the F.B.I. could not be asked for help, (they were busy collecting information on Americans for the Gestapo). After the war one American was shocked on how much information the Gestapo had on him. Turned out the F.B.I. had collected the information because it still co-operated with INTEPOL, which was virtually a Nazi organization at the time.

davidk14: Chrono said: Not many Americans realise that Flemming's James Bond is actually based on British operations against American Nazi Big Business supporters in the U.S.

David said: I have searched in many sites regarding Ian Fleming who created James Bond. There is nothing that I can find that Fleming was involved with anything in the US. From the Ian Fleming Foundation, John Cork wrote “The Life of Ian Fleming 1908 – 1964” and does not refer to anything Fleming did in the US. The closest reference to those years is the following quotes:

Pre-War Career
“While Fleming found his own identity at Kitzbuhel, he did not seem to find out what he wanted to do with his life. He wrote some short stories and some poems, but made no pretensions, it seems, about being an author. Eventually, Fleming set his sights on the foreign service exam, but to his grave disappointment did not make the grade. Nonetheless, Fleming had set a course for himself and worked hard to achieve his own goals. After the failure to join the Foreign Service, Fleming turned to his brother's profession. Following in his Peter's footsteps, Fleming became a journalist, joining Reuters.

By 1939, it appears Fleming had become bored with the plodding day-to-day existence of a banker. The ups and downs of the stock market apparently did not provide enough intrigue for him. During his Reuters days, Fleming had made friends in the Foreign Office, and maintained them even as a banker. In 1939, Fleming oddly took on an assignment for the Times to return to the Soviet Union to report on a trade mission. It appears that Fleming, in fact, was all the time spying for the Foreign Office.”

In May of 1939, Fleming started a more formal attachment to the intelligence service, working with Naval Intelligence. Soon, he was full-time assistant to the director, taking the rank of Lieutenant, and later Commander. Fleming became the right-hand man to one of Britain's top spymasters, Admiral John Godfrey.

The war was good to Fleming, tapping his imagination, forcing him to work within discipline. Fleming schemed, plotted, and carried out dangerous missions. From the famous Room 39 in the Admiralty building in London's Whitehall, Fleming tossed out a myriad of off-beat ideas on how to confuse, survey, and enrage the Germans.

In a 1940 trip into a crumbling France, Fleming supervised the escape from Dieppe, juggling the security needs of his country against the crush of refugees seeking escape from the Nazi machine. With Fleming flair, he spent one of his last evening eating and drinking some of the best food in the country, and one of his last days coordinating the evacuation of King Zog of Albania.




http://www.klast.net/bond/flem_bio.html


There was nothing on this official site that suggested that "Flemings James Bond is actually based on British operations against American Nazi Big Business supporters in the U.S."


Would you please let me know where you got your information regarding Fleming and the FBI? Thanks.

chronology: @ Mr David. I never said Ian Flemming was involved in any American Spy Operations, I said he may have based his novels on such operations which did in fact happen. Henry Ford, Joseph Kennedy, and many other leading Americans were urging Roosevelt to join Germany not Britain in the upcoming War. These Gentlemen would have been of interest to British Intelligence back then, (who does Goldfinger remind you of?)
The F.B.I.s contact with the Gestapo is well documented. It was mostly through INTERPOL which is the International Police organisation, which in the 1930s was virtually a NAZI front organisation, (that is one reason the American OSS was forced to co-operate with The Mafia way back then, you see, the Cops were all freakin NAZIs. Or would you have sooner the OSS have joined the NAZIs?). Mr David I will Post you the checkable facts on F.B.I./Gastapo exchange of information later, (I am at a different location at the moment and cannot get the details, but I do have them). As for British Operations in America, some facts were released under the 60 year rule or something, just go to the Government Web Site that deals with the information, they will Email you it I think.
Mr David, I should explain the problem the F.B.I. had. If a country (Nazi Germany) contacted them and asked for details of a person they suspect of being involved in a crime, or is insane and a threat to Government etc. And then requests details of that persons address, workplace, acquaintances, clubs, what Bars he drinks in etc. Some F.B.I. Officers probably said; 'Bullshit, this guy is not a criminal, or a Loon or an Anarchist. This is nothing but but Political Intelligence they are asking for', they still have to comply and send that Data, unless they have good reason for not doing so.

Outbackjack: Of course people like Stalin would have found it desirable to turn the U.S into a Communist state if possible.The biggest problem with the McCarthyite witch hunts was that they deemed anyone who associated with Communists to be fellow travellers.

Lets say you David,being a conscientous objecter,decided to turn up to a local peace meeting in the 1940s-50s and at this meeting there were Communists present.Then you could be deemed a fellow traveller and/or a Communist.

There is no doubt that Communists did seek to export the Russian revolution to Western countries.Just like Capitalism sought to overthrow Communism(state Capitalism) in the Eastern bloc so it could take over the markets and profit.

The cold war is over.
Most Socialists do not believe in Leninism.
Stalinists are actually closet right wingers.

Your problem ,David, is you are still in an archaic mindset where you see Communists everywhere.Just like the modern day Salem witch huter McCarthy.

Outbackjack: I am aware of some of the example that you speak of Chronology.

I would be most interested in seeing some more information.

chronology: @ Mr Outback. The best source of material commonly available about F.B.I. history widely available is Anthony Summers 'Official and Confidential'. The life of J Edgar Hoover. There is nothing scandalous about the F.B.I.s past dealing with Police Forces like INTERPOL and the Nazi Police in Germany. It was simply standard procedure for Police Forces to exchange information. I think Scotland Yard in London had the same dealings with the Nazi's right up to declaration of hostilities between Britain and Germany. Most History involving the F.B.I. is in the form of Private Memoirs. Ernest Cuneo (an F.D.R. Advisor), wrote that Edgar was being ruthlessly blackmailed by William Stevenson, who was working for British Intelligence in North America during the 30s and 40s. Edgar made the mistake of inviting Stevenson to his home for a dinner meeting. Stevenson noted the statues of Nude men all around inside Edgar's home, and paintings of Nude men on the wall. And when Clyde, Edgar's friend walked into the room, Stevenson soon concluded their behaviour was 'suggestive of a deviant relationship'.

davidk14: John, Are you frickin trying to see if we are idiots swallowing your BS? Summers is a UK left wing conspiracy nut job that also thinks the Warren Commission was wrong and that JFK was fragged by a dozen people. Try and find someone out there that has some credibility. Geez.

chronology: Mr David. Who is 'John'?. As for Anthony Summers, yes I agree with you many of the incidents he claims in 'Official and Confidential' do seem so way out as to be absurd but some incidents are in fact true. Personally. I think his dwelling on Mr Hoovers sexuality was unnecessary, but it was relevant in that Mr Hoover was exploited because at that time being Gay meant being persecuted, (some would say 'crucified' by Morality freaks.
And yes Mr David, you are correct about the J.F.K. Book by Summers, real 'Fantacy Island' stuff.