TERRORISTS-A LOT OF DEPRESSED,DISTRUCTIVE AND MENTALLY DESEASED PEOPLE (Page 5)

FogofWar
FogofWar: "David. Number 3 contradicts number 1.
if you train young men to the point where they are capable of engaging in battle without fear, you have created psychopaths. And phychos with guns have a tendency to kill indiscriminately. Thus creating collateral damage."

There is no philosophy in war. People die; people kill....the only philosophy to war is that which was already stated by Carl von Clausewitz: "War is the continuation of politics by other means....it is an act of aggression pushed to its utmost limits."

When it comes down to it, there are no rules in war. The Geneva conventions prohibits sharpening bayonets...what's going to happen if someone does in war??? Are you going to go to war with them?

The Geneva Conventions mandates that you are not allowed to shoot at paratroopers until BOTH their feet are FIRMLY planted on the ground; yet many have been shot before they touched soil. Medics are not supposed to be shot at, unless they are shooting at you; in yet a medic is not allowed to shoot unless being shot at...how can a medic be shooting at you, if he is not allowed to shoot unless you are shooting at him, but cannot be shot at unless he is shooting at you.............you see where this goes. How is it then, that medics have been killed in action?

The geneva conventions are nothing more than guidelines to follow for those who want to set a standard to the world....and more importantly, to reassure you people on the homefront that we have some sort of structure to the whole debacle that is war while we are fighting it. Soldiers are top be trained, not necessarily to kill without fear, but to act instinctively, to ovveride the natural instincts of fear. Fear can be useful, and by accepting it it makes you stronger.
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FogofWar
FogofWar: One of the hardest things to train new recruits is the use of cover. Everyone thinks they know it, and thinks it is soo simple, yet at the first sound of fire; a human's natural instinct is to duck; and so, new recruits drop to the ground. This works in movies; but that's because those are blanks, and they have as many takes as they need. In real life, lying on the ground does nothing. If I can shoot you standing infront of Me, chances are I can still shoot you lying down infront of Me. They are trained, over, and over, and over, and over, to reprogram their instincts (and this is why people gain an impression that soldiers don't think for themselves); so that when they hear gunfire, and their heartrate spikes, they dive for cover and not duck. Pilots too train like this. An enemy plane zooming at you, guns blazing is scarey as hell...the natural reaction is to steer away from it; but this only puts you infront of him, and the enemy directly on your vulnerable six o'clock. Oswald Boelcke taught in WWI, that it is far better to turn into an assailant's attacks than away. Far better to face him head on, that way you can shoot back too! It's a tactic that is practiced until it becomes instinct...and so in this manner, it can be seen as being trained to function without fear.

One of the first questions in My interview with the recruitment center was if I understood that I may be required to take up arms and defend My country, and if I understood that this may result in My death. From day one, a soldier is made clear to understand that there are some things bigger than him personally. Some things that will far outway his existence. One of the hardest roles for a commander is to send men into a mission that he knows they will not return from, or even some of them will not return from. The British SAS teach the idea of being expendable. I have their motto tattooed on My back: "Who Dares Wins". Simply put, meaning, those who take the chance may win. If the SAS is sent on a mission to retrieve vital intel that will end the war, then that intel is more important than their lives; this mission is considered crew expendable...meaning that the success of the mission is of vital importance; and the crew's lives are second to that. At all costs, they will try to bring their men back alive, but if it jeopardizes the success of the mission, then they will not. All SAS know and understand this, they take an oath that they will not turn down any mission, regardless of danger, and will always put the success of the mission before themselves.
It does not breed psychopaths....it breeds a type of person that you simply cannot understand; and infact, few can. A person who is willing to give their lives at a moment's notice to save their nation. This was the mindframe of the Spartan society; and the reason that Leonidas led his 300 men to their deaths rather than face defeat, which eventually led to an overwhelming Greek victory over Persia some 8 years later. Their actions rallied the nation to victory, and was far bigger than their lives. The Vikings too had this philosophy, and that is why these societies are remembered to this day as some of the greatest; along with the Samurai who too shared this mindframe. Samurai were hardly psychopaths, yet they were trained to kill fearlessly...infact, the Samurai believed that anyone could become a warrior, for to a Samurai, the true definition of a warrior was resolute acceptance of death.

The SAS have spared this world unconsiderable amounts of collateral damage.
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FogofWar
FogofWar: "And just because a mission is approved doesnt mean that it is a liscence to kill. No army wants robots."

This is true, and soldiers are not trained solely to kill. To take captive is the first priority, hard to do when being shot at though. Actual robots are a terrible idea, as they cannot feel human compation, and thus will not halt a mission to save civilian casualties. There is a fine line oen must learn to walk in order to perform their missions in combat. One must be able to feel enough human compassion in order to do the right thing, but be rational enough to understand that this will require them to take life; something you should feel fortunate enough not to have to deal with.
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flashie
flashie: no, no, no no
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FogofWar
FogofWar: No question about it Jokerspade; the SAS are the most elite Special Forces in the world, and for a reason. Who Dares Wins!
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Outbackjack
Outbackjack: Another long drawn out boring essay from Fog again.

Why dont you rely less on the copy and paste and try to summarise what you are saying rather than spamming the thread with your military rubbish.

"And our armies going in there stealing their resources is going to help them is it?"

Prove this outbackjack! I fight for that Army, and I have NEVER taken any resources from them. Canada has far more oil than Iraq; and we produced nearly twice the barrels of oil that Iraq did last year. Canada has far more natural gas than Afghanistan, and we produce the vast majority of both oil and gas in the United States, and the majority of the world. If the US wanted to invade somewhere based on those resources, then why have they not invaded us here yet?

Of course you personally have never taken resources if you are a soldier as you claim to be.Soldiers clear the way and protect the Capitalist companies that follow them so you and I both know you are just been plain silly to make an idiotic statement like that.
As for Canada.
HA HA HA!!!!!!!
Why would the U.S mount a costly invasion when they already own and have free access to your countries oil.
Sometimes you just dont get it do you?

"Just think how these countries could flourish if they for the first time in centuries were in charge of their own destiny."

I agree, and that is why we are there giving them the chance to do just that.

No.
All you are doing(not you as I dont even believe you are a soldier) is being a great recruiting sergant for the Taliban.Just look at Pakistan you are spreading "freedom" to them.

"There are no shortage of the vast majority of people hugging American soldiers, inviting them into their houses, and providing them with intel to fight off the handfull of insurgents throwing rocks at US soldiers, as these are the same people trying to seize power away from the democratically elected government."

Why dont you ask the family of Abeer Qassim Hamza al-Janabi and the people of Al-Mahmudiyah whether they would want to hug and kiss the soldiers.

"...and like the Pakistani officials reported last week, the Taliban are no lovers of Islam, and they are an enemy to Pakistan!"

You pull out one opinion.Maybe because the Taliban has been deemed Un Islamic due to the world according to Fog then maybe they dont exist as Islamic terrorists and will simply disappear.

"Enquiries done by the United States Department of National Defence, or military as you civies know it. So because there were members of the Allies prosecuted in WWII for torturing Germans, does that undermine our entire efforts of WWII? Were we wrong to stop Hitler on that account?"

Thats funny you saying that.
You usually say the past is the past get over it.
You cant have it both ways.
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Outbackjack
Outbackjack: "I say again,how do we know you havent?"

Beacuse I am the only one who knows what a US fireteam consists of, what US divisions are involved and where; and where and how they train. I am not the one posting information about how they fight, based off of what is seen in Hollywood movies outbackjack; I have seen them for real. They train extensively here in Canada; and if you don't believe Me that I have met them; that really doesn't break My heart."

HA HA HA!!!!!!!!
That coming from the man who worships copy and paste.

The thing with the West Bank is simply this.If Israel turned around and said we will not build anymore settlements whatsoever then could be a good starting point to sit down at the negotiating table.This is one of the main points that the Palestinians want.One way is if the world threatened to cut off complete aid to both sides except food or essentials then I bet the two sides would be eager to sit down together.

The media is information.Sometimes it can be used for misinformation.It is not right to just have a hissy fit and say its lies when that information does not suit your view.I find it ironic you say not to always quote one source yet you always seem to quote Dallaire.


"Iraq was never an illegal occupancy."
It is easy to say that when the U.S plays a huge part in the United nations and has power of veto.

"
The facts do remain:

Saddam Hussein attacked Iran in 1980; and caused a war that would last 8 years and cost over 1.5 million lives.
Saddam Hussein was fronted $40 billion from Kuwait for this war.
Saddam Hussein used illegal poison gases, considered a WMD to kill off over 100,000 Iranians and Kurds, his own people.
Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait illegally.
Saddam Hussein denied the most basic needs from his people including electricity and hospitals.
Saddam Hussein needed to be taken out."

The fact is that the U.S aided and encouraged the invasion of Iran.Saddam Hussein had access to U.S military files and satellite photos of Iranian forces.
The U.S wanted revenge for 1979.
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flashie
flashie: saddam hussein was part of the 'club'
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FogofWar
FogofWar: "Why would the U.S mount a costly invasion when they already own and have free access to your countries oil."

...yet more proof that you nothing about what you speak jack. They do NOT own our oil industry. US investment is simply an investment, not ownership. The oil belongs to the crown; hence the mineral rights that people used to own now being property of the crown. The crown, tudor crown to be specific, is the one that OUR queen wears; so technically speaking, she owns it, and not the US. In order for the US to own it, they must purchase it from us...and how terrible that is hey? that they buy oil from us, and thus get what they need, and give us money in exchange.

"Sometimes you just dont get it do you?"

actually, I do get it, as I live here. What makes you think you know more than everyone about everything, even things that happen in other people's countries? Are you really that arrogant?


"No.
All you are doing(not you as I dont even believe you are a soldier) is being a great recruiting sergant for the Taliban.Just look at Pakistan you are spreading "freedom" to them."

That's great if you do not believe Me jack; really, that makes Me smile. We are recruiting them hey? Pakistan is fighting against them now as well. People like you are the ones who are recruiting for them, as the more support they see in the rest of the world, the more it fuels them. Thanks for that by the way; while the rest of the world tries to move ahead in a peacefull resolution, you insist on heading back into dark ages; very productive of you. Right now, ISAF forces are arming members of Afghanistan to take control of their country; and supplying guard for their upcoming election...sounds terrible of us hey?


"Why dont you ask the family of Abeer Qassim Hamza al-Janabi and the people of Al-Mahmudiyah whether they would want to hug and kiss the soldiers."

....and then ask the other 30 million Iraqi's that do!

Seriously, take a look at current news there genius, see what is really going on there.



"Thats funny you saying that.
You usually say the past is the past get over it.
You cant have it both ways."

Answer the question: Do you think we were wrong in stopping Hitler because of a handful of Allied soldiers that committed war crimes???
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FogofWar
FogofWar: "HA HA HA!!!!!!!!
That coming from the man who worships copy and paste."

Quoting important figureheads of the past is far from copy and paste mr. gets all info from wikipedia.



"The thing with the West Bank is simply this.If Israel turned around and said we will not build anymore settlements whatsoever then could be a good starting point to sit down at the negotiating table.This is one of the main points that the Palestinians want.One way is if the world threatened to cut off complete aid to both sides except food or essentials then I bet the two sides would be eager to sit down together."

Perhaps you should refresh your knowledge of Rwanda and what happened when the world cut off supplies to that nation.

Palestinians have been saying they want Israel to do this to start the process of peace, then turn around and launch rockets into civilian centers, killing thousands of Israelites; Israel CANNOT put their citizens in harms way becuase the Palestinians won't act first. It is far more complex than all that.



"The media is information.Sometimes it can be used for misinformation.It is not right to just have a hissy fit and say its lies when that information does not suit your view."

...yet earlier in this very same post you said:

"You pull out one opinion.Maybe because the Taliban has been deemed Un Islamic due to the world according to Fog then maybe they dont exist as Islamic terrorists and will simply disappear."

...despite all claims from the people that have been there, you still refer to them as MY 'brainwashed' lies....hmmmm

Yes, the media does report the truth...about the main topic. There are troops in Afghanistan, there are troops in Iraq, and to this they have told the truth. Soldiers have died there, they have killed there...but how all of this happened; they have no idea, yet still report it...is this honesty?



""Iraq was never an illegal occupancy."
It is easy to say that when the U.S plays a huge part in the United nations and has power of veto."

It has nothing to do with power of veto...what UN laws did they break outbackjack? Answer Me that.


"The fact is that the U.S aided and encouraged the invasion of Iran.Saddam Hussein had access to U.S military files and satellite photos of Iranian forces.
The U.S wanted revenge for 1979."

FYI, many of the weapons used in the World Wars, were made from parts from the enemy countries. The Persians used weapons made by Greeks to invade Greece. Should we simply stop all trade so that we cannot give anything to someone who may one day be an enemy? Alliances and hostilities change over time. In 1980, Iran was a threat; and that's why Kuwait fronted $40 billion to Iraq to fight them....does that justify Hussein invading Kuwait? Holding grudges over past conflicts is not the way to resolve current ones jack; because one man was once a friend, does not mean he cannot become an enemy...look at Stalin. The USSR was a very powerful ally against Germany in WWII; yet they became the major enemy for the Cold War. Times change, get used to it.
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flashie
flashie: fog, is it true that 2 sas squaddies were captured dressed as arabs gunning civilians down in a jeep? and the regular army had to drive a tankinto a police station to rescue them?
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flashie
flashie: good replies tho fog.

would you bet then, that regarding torture by american soldiers *the photos taken at abu graib* werent sanctioned from the highest echelons of the us military as journos claim?
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flashie
flashie: Diplomat Ann Wright argues the tortures concocted showed a deep understanding of Arab and Muslim culture. There is no way ordinary 'American soldiers came up with these on their own. They must have been taught them by their superiors who had access to experts.

Bush sent a directive in 2002-02 that the resistance in Afghanistan were to be treated as terrorists, unprotected by the Geneva conventions. This left the fighters and POWs open to any conceivable torture.

Navy Seal Dan Cerrillo, testified the CIA ordered the Seals to torture prisoners.'
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oooREDEYEooo
oooREDEYEooo:

"MY NAME IS HUMAN...EYE LIVE ON EARTH...WE STILL KILL EACH OTHER LIKE THE ANIMALS WE DRIVE TO EXTINCTION"

'OPPINION ONLY'..."the soldiers will remain the scape goats alot like Oliver North aka Iran Contra-Scandle whilst the sold out fat cats of business and government remain untouched by their so called own sophisticated educated elite under the guise of so called super power of truth & justice...Timmothy McVeigh & Harvey Oswald comes to mind even...the West eye presume is looked upon as a corruptible bunch of morons feeding it's sheep...dribbling decieving so called believable newscasts that the masses seem to swallow and accept...and if not accepted...conspiracy theories and/or truth drowned by say the next president of forty days to be bestowed an honour more befitting to a legitimate mission worker et al...and don't forget the Oprah angle of the family dog and smiles...should keep them happy for a while at least...emotion...not truth as like American Mass Media sponsored by demolition companies and hideous war manufacturing machines that detonate no where near truth or justice...as eye write...more soldiers and civilians die...is'nt that so nice...god help the planets out there that have intelligent life...is this the best we can offer in 2009 from earth...an embarressment to ourselves and the universe...oh...and we use this thing called money...done so much for culture and diseases and the poor...and all this surrounded by a vacuum...in the middle of a theorized mathamatical equation...eye love it here...don't you"...!!!...

oooDOES-MY-HEAD-IN-EYEooo
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FogofWar
FogofWar: Haven't heard that one Flashie; but the SAS have been known to go undercover. They formed in WWII; and often dressed as Nazi officers to infiltrate meetings, etc. and gain intel on German positions. They also used insane and brilliant tactics to get out of hostile situations; like attaching a handgun to their belt, and running the trigger up a slinky style extension through their sleeve to their thumb...that's why the police today tell you to put your hands on your head and turn around.

Chances are however that it isn't true. Spec Ops know that their mission is of utmost importance, and often that means that it's secrecy is of utmost importance. If they are captured, they often will not be rescued; or at least not until an opportune moment.



It doesn't really matter if the orders were from higher ranks or not; other than that they would also be prosecuted. A soldier takes responsibility for their actions; so even if they were ordered to do those acts; it was their own choice to do so; and they will be held responsible. I would doubt that the orders were from anyone off the field; chances are they came as a result of the officers on the frontlines at most.



"Diplomat Ann Wright argues the tortures concocted showed a deep understanding of Arab and Muslim culture. There is no way ordinary 'American soldiers came up with these on their own."

That isn't necessarily true. A soldier can see the worst in humanity in war; and so they very likely may have caught on to these acts from what they witnessed those people doing to others.

In Afghanistan, we have witnessed people being shot in the street; women being stoned; beaten; kicked...a Canadian soldier took an axe to the head by an insurgent while sitting around a campfire playing guitar with local Afghan citizens. Children given teddybears lined with explosives. People being drug through the streets with a sack over their head and beaten severely for reporting the very things that contradict what outbackjack says (now you see why you don't understand the truth jack?), etc. etc. It can be hard to not feel the urge to commit those acts upon them back.

General Norman Schwartzkapf once said (although in a different context, but I think it applies here also) that deep down he thinks everyone knows the right thing to do, the hard part is actually doing it.

What he meant was that everyone knows that war has to be fought; and evil stopped, but it is seriously hard to find the will to do it. I think it still fits here though; you know that it is wrong to stoop to their level and commit the same acts upon them, but it can be hard not to.
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FogofWar
FogofWar: "Navy Seal Dan Cerrillo, testified the CIA ordered the Seals to torture prisoners.'"

The CIA orders them to interrogate; and that is up to interperatation as to what they meant. Still, it is the responsibility of the soldier to do the right thing; like Schwartkapf said; it may be very hard to defy an order from a superior officer, as you may be courtmartialled for it; but the Geneva Conventions will not allow them to commit these acts; and so they took an oath saying that they would not. The problem in that case is that an alien unlawful enemy combatant is not protected by the Geneva Conventions; but that was more the case of those held at Guantanamo Bay. Again, of course it happens there; it does in every war; but one cannot see this as reason to be skeptical about the entire campaign. War is ugly, and the truth is that the Geneva Conventions are often not followed entirely; on both sides....but they still must be fought.



"the soldiers will remain the scape goats alot like Oliver North aka Iran Contra-Scandle whilst the sold out fat cats of business and government remain untouched by their so called own sophisticated educated elite under the guise of so called super power of truth & justice..."

...and that Redeye, is why a soldier does not seek personal appraisal, aand fame for their actions. They are an easy scapegoat for a powerhead when things go wrong; but deep down, we know that what we have done was right and necessary. A soldier acts first; they consider the consequences later. Not to be misunderstood that they will kill indiscriminately (I know you are going to try and twist My words into that jack); but rather the opposite. A Canadian soldier is currently under investigation and court martial for his actions in Afghanistan. He shot and killed an unarmed civilian; although the media would like to spin that as an innocent civilian, that is not necessarily the case. A Taliban insurgent is not a member of any military, and thus is a civilian; so if he puts down his rifle, he is now an unarmed civilian.

I do not know the full story of what happened; as I was not there when it did; but when asked about it by a journalist; he told them he could not comment on what happened; but only say that a soldier of his position (Sergeant) puts the lives of his men first; and his top priority is their survival. He said he acted as necessary, and did not even bother to consider the consequences of court martial. If he has to serve time in jail for saving the lives of his men, then he will do it; because he knows he did the right thing.

People will judge you, but the truth of your actions will never be forgotten.


Yes redeye, there is much that we do that is not good; and war is just that...but we could not exist without it. Just like all other animals on this planet, survival is a game of competition. Two tigers fight for the same ford. So too, two tribes of humans will fight for it as well. Multiply that by 6 billion people living in several hundred countries; and you have a recipe for disaster. All things come to an end; and so too will humanity; what matters is what you did while you were here!
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Outbackjack
Outbackjack: "...yet more proof that you nothing about what you speak jack. They do NOT own our oil industry. US investment is simply an investment, not ownership. The oil belongs to the crown; hence the mineral rights that people used to own now being property of the crown. The crown, tudor crown to be specific, is the one that OUR queen wears; so technically speaking, she owns it, and not the US. In order for the US to own it, they must purchase it from us...and how terrible that is hey? that they buy oil from us, and thus get what they need, and give us money in exchange."

You are so naive.
The companies take your oil and give you back a pittance in royalties just like here.
And you say I dont know anything???

"actually, I do get it, as I live here. What makes you think you know more than everyone about everything, even things that happen in other people's countries? Are you really that arrogant?"

That coming from you is absolutely priceless.

People like me are the ones recruiting them??????
HA HA HA !!!!!!
Oh so it has nothing do with armies invading their country?
Silly me,more pearls of wisdom from the world according to Fog.

"Why dont you ask the family of Abeer Qassim Hamza al-Janabi and the people of Al-Mahmudiyah whether they would want to hug and kiss the soldiers."

....and then ask the other 30 million Iraqi's that do!"

30 million???
No way.
Wheres the proof?

"Answer the question: Do you think we were wrong in stopping Hitler because of a handful of Allied soldiers that committed war crimes???"

Making demands now?
I am not some private in some E-army.
You insist on me repeating myself.
I have stated before my views on this many times.
Go and look them up.

"Quoting important figureheads of the past is far from copy and paste mr. gets all info from wikipedia."

Repeatedly quoting is more like it.

"Perhaps you should refresh your knowledge of Rwanda and what happened when the world cut off supplies to that nation."

Again with Rwanda.Arming Israel to the teeth is not helping.

""The media is information.Sometimes it can be used for misinformation.It is not right to just have a hissy fit and say its lies when that information does not suit your view."

...yet earlier in this very same post you said:

"You pull out one opinion.Maybe because the Taliban has been deemed Un Islamic due to the world according to Fog then maybe they dont exist as Islamic terrorists and will simply disappear."

...despite all claims from the people that have been there, you still refer to them as MY 'brainwashed' lies....hmmmm"

So now that the Pakistan Government says they are UnIslamic maybe we shouldnt call them Islamic Terrorists?
Maybe I missed the announcement that they all converted to paganism or something.

"Yes, the media does report the truth...about the main topic. There are troops in Afghanistan, there are troops in Iraq, and to this they have told the truth. Soldiers have died there, they have killed there...but how all of this happened; they have no idea, yet still report it...is this honesty?"

So what you are saying is that there are no journalists in these countries who know and see what is happening?
Get a grip.
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Outbackjack
Outbackjack: ""Iraq was never an illegal occupancy."
It is easy to say that when the U.S plays a huge part in the United nations and has power of veto."

It has nothing to do with power of veto...what UN laws did they break outbackjack? Answer Me that."

I have addressed this on another thread that I just posted.I wont repeat myself all the time like you.

"FYI, many of the weapons used in the World Wars, were made from parts from the enemy countries. The Persians used weapons made by Greeks to invade Greece. Should we simply stop all trade so that we cannot give anything to someone who may one day be an enemy? Alliances and hostilities change over time. In 1980, Iran was a threat; and that's why Kuwait fronted $40 billion to Iraq to fight them....does that justify Hussein invading Kuwait? Holding grudges over past conflicts is not the way to resolve current ones jack; because one man was once a friend, does not mean he cannot become an enemy...look at Stalin. The USSR was a very powerful ally against Germany in WWII; yet they became the major enemy for the Cold War. Times change, get used to it."

I am glad you acknowledged that the U.S helped Saddam.Seems like really poor judgement that none of your excuses for will suffice.

A bit like George Bushs grandfather supplying arms to the nazis and even trying to overthrow a democratic government in the U.S through a fascist coup.
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FogofWar
FogofWar: "You are so naive.
The companies take your oil and give you back a pittance in royalties just like here.
And you say I dont know anything???"


HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

You seriously want to tell Me how the most valuable resource in My country is handled....IN MY COUNTRY! You are an idiot! There is no point arguing this with you jack.

My brother is one of the highest postitions in the largest oil company in the country, and you want to tell Me what he does? HA HA HA HA



""actually, I do get it, as I live here. What makes you think you know more than everyone about everything, even things that happen in other people's countries? Are you really that arrogant?"

That coming from you is absolutely priceless."

So you have been to Canada? Been to the United States? Been to Iraq? Been to Afghanistan?


"People like me are the ones recruiting them??????
HA HA HA !!!!!!
Oh so it has nothing do with armies invading their country?"

News flash buddy, it wasn't THEIR country. The Taliban murdered the Afghanistan government and tried to seize control. They NEVER had control of ALL of Afghanistan; they had power over roughly 90%, but not ALL. Omar, the leader of the Taliban did not have control of Kabul, the capital city of Afghanistan; he ruled in Khandahar, afraid to leave for fear of his life!

We never invaded "THEIR" country. We took out the power that did! We set up a democratic government, and let the people choose the government to replace the one that the Taliban murdered; and the people of Afghanistan want us there, not the Taliban.

There is absolutely no point arguing with someone who gets all their information off of wikipedia...and cannot even read it fully at that! It's time you go get your highschool diploma; and make sure you take History 30, it'll do you a world of good!


"Oh so it has nothing do with armies invading their country?
Silly me,more pearls of wisdom from the world according to Fog."


"30 million???
No way.
Wheres the proof?"

The same place Dr. Ismael's proof of being a doctor and the US using napalm in Fallujah is!

There is far more people in Iraq supporting the US than opposing it! You don't even know who the force fighting the US is, how would you know how much support they have?


"Making demands now?
I am not some private in some E-army.
You insist on me repeating myself.
I have stated before my views on this many times.
Go and look them up."

Yet, you still cannot answer a simple question, because you know that your answer contradicts yourself!

Do you think that we were wrong in stipping Hitler because of a handful of Allied soldiers that committed war crimes???


"Repeatedly quoting is more like it."

One must repeatedly quote when one repeatedly ignores.
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FogofWar
FogofWar: "Again with Rwanda.Arming Israel to the teeth is not helping."

Arming Isreal to the teeth? You mean Israel purchasing weapons? Or do you mean us setting up refugee camps for Palestinians?


"So now that the Pakistan Government says they are UnIslamic maybe we shouldnt call them Islamic Terrorists?
Maybe I missed the announcement that they all converted to paganism or something."

If you read through every single post of Mine, you will see that I refer to them by what they are: Islamic EXTREMISTS! This is far from Islamic. Islamic people do not strap bombs to themselves and blow up schoolchildren.

Christian extremists have murdered doctors who practice abortion; does this mean ALL Christians are murderers, or support murdering abortionists? A pro-life Christian taking a life because that person takes life is as hypocritical as a Muslim killing a Muslim in a school, despite the law of Islam saying that NO Muslim should attack another Muslim!

Pakistan has joined the fight against the Taliban by the way. They declared today that they are prepared to fight this til the bitter end; and have sent in 30,000 troops into Pakistani Taliban strongholds. The US is supporting Pakistan's efforts too! Seems even more people in the world are looking to a peaceful future; when can we expect you to join in that peace jack?


"So what you are saying is that there are no journalists in these countries who know and see what is happening?
Get a grip."

Not the whole story, no! They are not allowed in a firefight. They cannot see the battle take place. They are moved out to a safe location. They see the aftermath, and that is what causes assumptions. It is human nature to assume, much like you assume that "Dr." Ismael is telling the truth. Assumptions lead to flaws in news reports. Producing them leads to fabrications in order to attract a crowd. Are you trying to suggest that the media is 100% reliable?

"""Iraq was never an illegal occupancy."
It is easy to say that when the U.S plays a huge part in the United nations and has power of veto."

It has nothing to do with power of veto...what UN laws did they break outbackjack? Answer Me that."

I have addressed this on another thread that I just posted.I wont repeat myself all the time like you."

And neither will I, suffice to say that no laws were broken, and the invasion of Iraq was 100% within the laws of the United Nations.


"I am glad you acknowledged that the U.S helped Saddam."

Actually, I stated that Kuwait did. Nice to see you cannot distinguish the difference between the North American nation of the USA and the Middle Eastern nation of Kuwait!
SO, do you know what the party that Hussein was a member of was called, and what they were, and how they started?





"A bit like George Bushs grandfather supplying arms to the nazis and even trying to overthrow a democratic government in the U.S through a fascist coup."

So I went to school with a kid who was related to Hitler. Should we throw stones at her too?
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john1576
john1576: Fog. You are correct about the Holocaust thing. Actually Mr Bush's family have a very low profile involvement in the Nazi thing. Other people and corporations have a far higher involvement. Like the American Company that supplied trucks that were used to gas mental patients and retards. The company had no idea the trucks were being used for those purposes. But it shows you the hypocrisy of some political commentators. Mr Bush's folks have a few business deals that are harmless, (big headlines), a well known U.S. company supplies trucks that are used to gas retards, (not a word). Again for all you America haters, the Americans had idea their machines were being used to chill retards. And Mr Bush's folks have very clean hands compared with many others. Mr Bush is the Good Guy.
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hellov
hellov: I'm thankful to all those who've given their opinion in this forum and also to those who could not give their opinion but support the idia that the killing of innocent people should be stopped with immidiate effect.I hope the forum will continue to raise this problem effectively and my friends will continue to raise this issue effectively in future also.
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flashie
flashie: ^that
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FogofWar
FogofWar: "Other people and corporations have a far higher involvement. Like the American Company that supplied trucks that were used to gas mental patients and retards. The company had no idea the trucks were being used for those purposes."

What most people don't know John, is that very few people did infact know what they were for. Most Germans did not know about the concentration and death camps. Even German soldiers had no idea. The only one's that knew was Hitler; his officials, a handful of Generals, Himmler and his SS officers in charge of the camps...other than that, no Germans knew about the holocaust either.

Kudos Hellov; it's people like you that are gaining the support of us to combat this terrorism, and helping to gain momentum in our own countries to stand up against this.
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Outbackjack
Outbackjack: "There is no point arguing this with you jack."

No there isnt Fog.Your country like mine is getting a pittance in royalties.

"My brother is one of the highest postitions in the largest oil company in the country, and you want to tell Me what he does? HA HA HA HA"

Ahhhhhh so the penny drops.So how do you fit in to this.Oh thats right you are just some lowly soldier.If you are really some soldier then you are really thick not to use your brothers position to better yourself.
This whole idea of yours about oil and the arms economy puts everything into perspective.

YOU ARE ONE OF THEM!!!!!!!!

No wonder you are on here trying to justify the invasion of Iraq.It all makes sense now.Thanks Fog for revealing who you truly are and what your motives are.

"News flash buddy, it wasn't THEIR country. The Taliban murdered the Afghanistan government and tried to seize control. They NEVER had control of ALL of Afghanistan; they had power over roughly 90%, but not ALL. Omar, the leader of the Taliban did not have control of Kabul, the capital city of Afghanistan; he ruled in Khandahar, afraid to leave for fear of his life!"


"We never invaded "THEIR" country. We took out the power that did! We set up a democratic government, and let the people choose the government to replace the one that the Taliban murdered; and the people of Afghanistan want us there, not the Taliban."

Oh silly me there are no armies in Afgahnistan,so I guess there was no invasion.Maybe its a tea party?
Democratic Government????

NEWSFLASH!!!!!!!
The President has been accused of voting fraud.
Is this democracy???

"There is absolutely no point arguing with someone who gets all their information off of wikipedia...and cannot even read it fully at that! It's time you go get your highschool diploma; and make sure you take History 30, it'll do you a world of good"

Theres no point in arguing with someone who is tied up with the oil industry.

"30 million???
No way.
Wheres the proof?"

The same place Dr. Ismael's proof of being a doctor and the US using napalm in Fallujah is!

There is far more people in Iraq supporting the US than opposing it! You don't even know who the force fighting the US is, how would you know how much support they have?"

Still on about Dr Ismael who is a real life doctor???
You are clutching at straws.
So now there are more supporting the U.S invasion than not???
Thats still heaps less than 30 million.

"Making demands now?
I am not some private in some E-army.
You insist on me repeating myself.
I have stated before my views on this many times.
Go and look them up."

"Yet, you still cannot answer a simple question, because you know that your answer contradicts yourself!"

The biggest irony of this is that I am now repeating myself about saying how I would be repeatedly repeating myself over something I have posted about in the past repeatedly.

"One must repeatedly quote when one repeatedly ignores.

The irony is breathtaking.

"Again with Rwanda.Arming Israel to the teeth is not helping."

"Arming Isreal to the teeth? You mean Israel purchasing weapons? Or do you mean us setting up refugee camps for Palestinians?"

Purchasing arms and Israel receiving billions in military aid.

Pakistan has no choice but to fight to the end now that the war has spilled into their country.

"Not the whole story, no! They are not allowed in a firefight. They cannot see the battle take place. They are moved out to a safe location. They see the aftermath, and that is what causes assumptions. It is human nature to assume"
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