Wouldn't it be better to have no beliefs?

LiptonCambell: So, here's a question;

If religions fit into the category of a belief system and and we just focus on what beliefs are in the first place, basically faith in certain things holding true, shouldn't you strive to have no beliefs as an atheist?

Bourbaki: Atheism is defined as the absence of belief in gods. That's all it is defined to be.
Anyhow, without having some statements as premises it is not possible to make any deductions at all. A central idea in logic is to choose your premises and rules of deduction to be as simple as agreeable as possible; for instance it is very natural to assert that x=x for all x. What bothers many atheists is the fact religious people lay the premise of the existence deities without evidence. Nobody who understands how reasoning works will strive to hold no beliefs because then you're stuck with nothing but nihilism.

CoIin: @ Bourbaki

Well, if you're gonna set the bar at deductive demonstration, we'd have to ditch all our scientific knowledge too

Isn't that bar just a tad too high? We'd be left with nothing but mathematics and formal logic.

But then again, knowing you, you might be quite happy

Bourbaki: Well, I thought i'd only mention the formal, logical issues atheists have with religions, only touching on lack of evidence. Of course a more complete conversation would include your friend Popper and falsifiability for instance..

Serabi:

Belief is an ambiguous word. Everybody needs a belief system. You must believe in yourself, you can believe that certain norms and values should guide your everyday life. Believing in a deity on the basis of what others tell you, is a bit silly really.

Oh yes, you must believe in Ancient Aliens, after scrutinizing the evidence, of course!

CoIin: Well, true enough, Serabi

But that also goes for most of our "knowledge", including scientific knowledge. How many of us have the time, ability and expertise to examine these matters for ourselves and reach our own conclusions?

I submit that almost all of the beliefs in any given adult's belief system are derived from "testimony", i.e. - "on the basis on what others tell us."

I believe that E=MC2, for example. But if I'd been told E=2MC2 instead, that would be part of my current web of beliefs. See what I mean?

Perhaps you believe smoking causes cancer, say. Is that a result of you "scrutinizing the evidence"?

I'm not knocking it. We don't have much choice in this day and age.

Corwin: The idea of having "no beliefs" made me think of this....

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...
---------------

That being said... John Lennon was a stupid Hippie who "believed" in Marxist Communism, which worked on paper, but didn't fare too well when applied in the real world.

He also "believed" that he could walk the streets of New York without body-guards just like some regular Joe.... that belief got him killed.

Serabi:

I have seen photos of the pyramids... I believe that they exist.
I have seen photos of Mayan temples... I believe that they exist.
I have seen photos of Stonehenge... I believe that it exists.
I have seen photos of molten rocks bent into shapes, thousands of years ago, I believe someone must have had the technology to soften the rocks.
On the other side of the globe, the same rock 'melting' took place - No flight or ships were available - the technology must have come from somewhere.

Every belief, pagan or Christian has a 'god' descending from the heavens.
A phenomenal knowledge of stellar constellations - the knowledge came from somewhere.
Corvins' military choppers came as a newbie but there are many books, in many languages, describing 'machines' but in a primitive context - with what was available and known to the writers of the time. Ancient tapestries and paintings of wars in the skies in India fascinate me. The fact that nearly every creation story is roughly the same intrigues me.

NO physical evidence of big daddy in the sky with eyes right around his head to 'spy' on erring humans - no, can't believe in that.

Yep, this loony believes in Ancient Aliens. But I don't sit outside scouring the night heavens for UFOs though.

lori100: John Lennon was removed by the Reagan admin......he was too awake and outspoken for them....they wanted the public to be gullible and asleep...

Serabi:

CoIin: ^^^ Don't bang too hard. You'll mess up your belief network. And hairdo

Serabi:

My belief network can't be shoookin up. It is based on good values, compassion and common sense.

CoIin: ^^^ I can't imagine anyone who'd say otherwise

Hmm, but then again, Nietzsche wasn't big on compassion

Serabi:

I think compassion is key here.

LiptonCambell:

XFixYourBrainX: I dont like the word believe. We as a species are gullable though.

harlett anathema: .......gullible species...trying too live and have no beliefs...??????

ummm ah...isn't humanity a communal species..????.


even if God,A Risen Jesus,the devil,etc etc..don't exist or no longer exits... there is a code of ethic's & conduct too fathom...knowing & gathering the logic of...

harlett anathema: if no one is willing too risk the wrath of the bully then the bully gets away with murder..& other mayhem....

science...history... gathering logic.all go hand & hand...when we ask....do we not receive insight and knowledge...

there's a song.. it's in the way that you use it..

step out side of the box..of miss information.. will full distorted interpretation...and become of rebel....ah ha.....there's more too US then we fathom....or want too have ta fathom..

i am working on thought.. i know your all .. ..ahahahaha

that the schizophrenic brain.. not the mind of.. is from the damage of being born from serious soaked with syphilis & gonorrhea-ic parents....life did not stop for folks they on went partying.. and having children.. that caused the proneness too run in some families ...or show up upon biological maturity...

the hearing voices and visual side effects... are actually from their natural telepathic doorways being flung wide open....

harlett anathema: can anyone imagine having too hear what ted bundy was always thinking & feeling...

harlett anathema: eeeee.....i'm back..

anti-depressants don't work,because the body refuses too be tricked into a false sense of well being...we make matters worse for ourselves by trying too emotionalize & socialize the cause..

aren't Our World Leaders in this very moment playing us all for fools..they know what best for us too grasp...

we keep entering into these debates.. because Our Instincts keep telling us.. there is more too OUR EXISTENCES then were fathoming...true enough that my aging mortal organic flesh is nearing it's own end time.. meanwhile my presence of being is still evolving and maturating..coming into it's own full height...

where will my final destination find me...I believe...eventually,my existence will enjoy the privilege of knowing Eternal Life & Living...just not as i have experienced being..too date..

if i had too describe...there's a quality too some of Our dreams....where we sense we go on & on & on for ever...that sensation will magnify & intensify...

harlett anathema: am i the only person who doesn't have a fond taste for cloned beef.. that we have no choice anymore from buying..in US grocery stores unless you have big bucks too shell out...and if you ask me... those dollars are spent on the first generation clones.. not the third and fourth etc etc etc..isn't science responsible for this....blasphemy in my book...

Serabi:

^^Wow^^ That is a bit harsh for me!

Schizoaffective disorders have nothing in common with psychopathic (now known as Sociopathic) behaviour. Nobody knows what causes either. Serious pshycotropic drugs with help Schizophrenia but nothing will alter the psychopathic mind, however, the very strict, cruel influence of a religion-obsessed parent usually plays a big role in shaping, skewing and forcing susceptible youngsters into a dark place in their psyche. Reality is just too harsh.

People with Schizoaffective disorders have belief systems just like everyone else. Sociopaths have no empathy or sympathy or any other affective emotions. Ted Bundy didn't 'feel'.

Psychotropic drugs helps to restore a chemical imbalance in the brain. No venereal diseases cause these.

No, you can't think that!!!!

harlett anathema: i didn't compare... i merely said... that i believe all schizophrenics natural telepathic awareness is flung wide open.. that they have no shield to protect themselves....that the voices they hear are the sounds of the rest of OUR's mind noise we make 24/7/365.. and used ted bundy as my example.. of .can u imagine having no way to get away from hearing what that man was thinking ...

once upon a time....Humanity dealt with.. herpes that infected every warm & moist orifices in their bodies...They dealt with incurable syphilis & gonorrhea..they were not sent too containment cities.. they were left free too roam and have indiscriminate sex.. many children were born from syphilis soaked parents..herpes laden parents..etc etc...for centuries...

the physical brain of schizophrenic's follow a physical damage & redesign pattern...caused by caustic & stress related body chemistry...


they receive no therapy of any healthy kind too aide them or help them deal with their heightened and sensitive telepathy...

drugs your talking about numb body chemistry reaction calm the body from reacting too it's environment...other wise.. schizophrenic's are left too endure the voices they hear...

it's cruel...

harlett anathema: i don't wanna say science lies...lies..butt it does take sides..and those of 1 side or another will direct us towards what ever side they took...

the big bang & the blossoming theorists are a perfect example...the big bang banger's get off too saying God wasn't necessary for creation..too have taken place...

the blossomer's... never even mention that facet too their argument..they say that creation began with a laws of attraction blossoming....

that creation did not need a traffic cop directing it every attraction... as those desiring too disprove the existence of the supernatural presence and existence of God....get off too..

matter of fact no matter how hard the big bang banger's try they can't any computer model too agree with them and the way big bang.....have not yet given up...trying to prove.. creation began with the masculine... and not the feminine....

bonzono5: "matter of fact no matter how hard the big bang banger's try they can't any computer model too agree with them and the way big bang.....have not yet given up...trying to prove.. creation began with the masculine."

sigh..

yes, the old argument that since scientists can't irrefutably show something to have taken place the way it is hypothesized, it's wrong and should be considered as such.

oh dear.

Scientists once tried to show the earth orbited the sun. They couldn't get their models to work there either..

turns out they were right though.
funny how science works, but not as funny as the people who don't know know how science works, and try to talk about it as if they do.

Serabi:

@Bozo - ????????